JohnnyR

1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

 

Would the hero be swatting with his hand, or something else?

I would think most times it would be the hand, though something like a certain star-spangly shield would help. 

1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

If the hero has an 8, then a DCV 12 means a 16% chance of hitting it.  Which sounds right when you only have *1* shot to do this, not multiple chances.

Granted, it is an action that is not likely to succeed, much less hitting the grenade right back to the thrower, that's why I hesitated to write it up as Reflection.

1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

I wasn't even thinking the mook was cooking off the fuse.  The grenade simply doesn't move very fast.  Article said 30-35 meters was typical.  If the grenade's doing 10 m/s, that's 3 seconds transit time, plus the time between pulling the pin and actually throwing it...that's not long, but given that we're down to 1-2 seconds, 1/4 to 1/3 of a second to actually gather and throw it, becomes significant.

Agreed, but in the example, our hero swats it. And if the thrown range is less than 30-35, such as in an urban environment or helicarrier, there is more of a "grace" period. Plus, to really nitpick, the fuse activates upon the spoon springing away from the grenade body, not the pulling of the pin. So, unless it's cooked-off, the timer starts upon release of the grenade.

So in Champions, there is potentially "plenty" of time for an agile and fast hero to "bat it" away, taking into account variables such as cook-off time, distance thrown, length of fuse, reaction time, DEX roll, etc.

In other words: GM's call.

All good points. Reflection is the easiest way to go, but even with the limitation Only vs. Thrown Objects, Our Hero couldn't Reflect knives, axes, etc. That's why I avoided it at first. I think a more limited Limitation would work. 

4 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

It was decided that a character should not have to be a ninja to have a chance at this, nor should he have to buy a special ability to do it (deflection, reflection, etc).   Why would we decide such a thing?  Because outside of supers, this is a really odd and dangerous thing to practice as far as building skills goes, at least outside of baseball.

My original thinking as well. And this is a supers campaign, though a low-powered one.

4 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

As with the person throwing the grenade, the person attempting to deflect the grenade is allowed relevant skills and skill levels.

 

Well, first, that stands up to real-world observation.  Honestly, this results in 1 in 200-something grenades being sent back to the user _at a minimum_.  I feel certain that if this ratio was attained real-world, people would just stop using grenades, so it seems dramtically generous.

 

Second, this is an everyman way to do it.  Deflecrion and Reflection are actual game elements that can be purchased if one wishes an easier way to do these things.

 

Amen!

4 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 A GM has to use judgement for this kind of thing; is it reasonable to hit it back? 

The problem is that a grenade has a much larger area of effect than someone could reasonably hit it away (so it has to go in a trench or window or something to provide cover), and that at its size, its 8 DCV, so it will be a challenge to hit.

Reasonable for a superhero, yes (see Cap in The Avengers, helicarrier repair scene). Large AoE yes, but most heroes should have enough STR to swat it a good distance (provided the DEX roll is made), and it's a desperate last ditch effort, especially if it's a frag and not a flashbang or gas grenade.

1 hour ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

 

 

Frankly, the size DCV is excessive in my mind as well (its not that hard to hit a ball someone tosses at you), but 8 (to be precise, 9 as you note) is what the rules say. I'd say 4.  Nobody is burning one of these things across the plate at 100 mph, you cannot throw a grenade as hard as Nolan Ryan throws a baseball, even if you had that kid of arm.

Preach, brother!

As far as impact detonation and whether a bottom-rung agent mook has the Presence of mind to cook-off a frag grenade in his hand, those are topics for another day...

Thanks, y'all.

Ok, Herophiles, here's the setup: Evil Organization Agent hurls a grenade at Really Agile Hero (who has a Held Action). Said Hero swats the grenade back in Agent's direction, or at least away from himself.

What's the best way to do this? Not Reflection.  Not a Grab and throw. A simple DEX roll? A DEX roll followed by OCV roll with no levels (like targeting something with a thrown character)?

A Block plus something else? Multiple attack required? Other?

If you ever get attacked by a gang of clowns, go for the juggler.

I want four fried chickens... and a Coke.

Got a campaign started in a Texas city, name of Mustang Bay. It was a boom town due to real world events like Texas' population growth (mostly people and companies from out-of-state), the shale fracking/oil boom, Space X in south Texas, other hi-tech companies. All that means $$ and super villains follow the $$. One of the heroes is Big Tex (named after the giant cowboy at the State Fair).

I also vote for Lone Star City, partners.

Then there's this:

When 6E was imminent but not yet published, Steve Long posted a series of "showcases" of various edition rules changes and his thinking behind them, which provides more detail in a few areas than the character creation summary he attached above.

"APG Goodies


—detailed rules for cyberkinesis (mentally or remotely operating electronics and machinery)"

Note to self: get Advanced Player's Guide

These are great ideas.

I think you probably should also bundle several skills to to get the effects wanted.

Now to throw a wrench into the plans. How can several skills be bundled into one? Is this something new in 6th ed.? Savants use the SINC skill to hack. (Self Interfacing Neural Code - a special code they write after cracking their mindset.)  So a new skill, with elements of other skills built in.

In the setting, this one skill covers all their hacking shenanigans. Converting over, I'd require the player to buy those skills separately also.

The easy way- just use the Power skill in place of Comp. Programming, Security Systems, etc. when hacking?

Am I overthinking this?

Note to self: get Hero 6th.

Skills can be bought with Advantages and Limitations.

Now why didn't I think of that?

Thanks, Lucius.

...and palindromedary.

Electromagnetic hacking is a good description. System does not have to be networked, although in this setting almost everything is. People with mindsets make up a third of the population. Savants, who have overridden the mandated restrictions on said mindsets and thus have special abilities, are rare.

     Your party is escaping from Secret Research Lab after alarm goes off. Up ahead, doors close on the exit you were planning to use. At the other end of the hall, a bunch of Overzealous Security Guards appear and start firing. You all take cover behind Conveniently-Placed Storage Containers. The Savant player wants to hack the door controls (he can do this at a distance). This will stress his brain box because the mindset was not designed to be used as such. He rolls the necessary skill but fails, and his brain fries a bit (data is corrupted). He tries again and despite a penalty, succeeds.The doors open and stay open for a few seconds.

     Later, your party makes it to the docking bay, where Trusty Escape Vehicle awaits, but these doors are also locked down. Even worse, these doors are Heavily Secured (against hacking): -4 or such to skill roll. Savant guy tries his trick again, but with 2 penalties on him, he fails, and yep, suffers a 2nd Glitch. Facial tics ensue. Guards enter area, shooting anything that moves. PCs take cover again, and Savant dude is pressured to "Do something!" Rather than risk opening the bay doors at a whopping -8 penalty and suffering another Glitch, he desperately looks around. He notices Fire Suppression System, and prays as he rolls.

Success! Foam sprays out, covering the surprised guards, buying the party some time.

This illustrates how the power (with Requires a Skill Roll, of course) works. So far I am guessing Limited TK, but how to build?

I am curious though as to why mental images wouldn't work with limitations?  Something like

mental images 12d6, limited effect to +10, based on alternate combat value, attack vs alternate defense (electronic mental or power defense).

Not familiar with "based on alternate CV," or electronic defense for that matter.

Most of these "Savant " abilities work on a skill vs. skill contest.

Even so, if you start at (for argument's sake) 14 or less, that gives a 14-, 12-, 10- and 8- roll before shutdown. It's pretty rare that you would ever see it happen.

 

I'd make it a -0 limitation, maybe as much as a -¼ one with a fixed effect "falls unconscious".

Yeah, I see your point.  -1/4 sounds about right, especially since other Savants can "attack" mindsets and cause Glitches.

Next challenge: Gaining control for a brief moment (a Phase) of systems that control machines around you. Example:  unlock doors, close gates, fire sentry guns, surge grav generators, cut the lights, vent room atmosphere, etc.

Specialized TK? Mind Control (Machine-class minds)? Other?

Unless the base roll is very low, I don't actually think this should be worth many points at all, if any.

Hmmm.

A good parallel would be the Magic skill for a Fantasy Hero mage. This particular skill is also INT-based and would be used for a variety of abilities. The difference, and yes I left out this bit of pertinent info, being that the character suffers the equivalent of a -2 penalty each time the skill roll fails (a Glitch). 3 Glitches, you are OK but with a reduced skill roll. 4 Glitches, your digital brain shuts down. Glitches clear at a rate of 1 every 4 hours with rest (read: debugging).

Edit: So I guess all this can be rolled into a total of a -1/2 Limitation.

Three Strikes? Is this an offensive effect upon your opponents? Or an effect which is inflicted upon your character if he missed three times?

 

Sorry, had baseball on the brain.

The character fails 3 (actually 4 now that I read the source material closer) skill rolls (trying to make his mindset do what it wasn't designed to do. As a result, it reboots, making the character fall unconscious for several minutes.)

@Ninja Bear: I had been thinking Side Effects, but what value?

I'm thinking Extreme Side Effects (-1) but since the character can control/ know more or less when that'll happen, it's worth a 1/2 limitation less, for (-1/2)?

Here's another:  How would you simulate "3 strikes, you're out!" ?

Example:  Fail a Skill roll 3 times (in a certain amount of time) and you are KO'ed for several minutes?

Notice the character is not affected until that 3rd failure.

If there's some kind of requirement that the target needs, that may inform the build, i.e. a VR communication system where only characters that have OIF VR helmets can see the images.

 

Sounds sorta what a VR/AR system might work like, since they are the only one to perceive said information.

You guys are good. I'm trying to convert Nova Praxis (Savage Worlds ed.) to HERO.

Augmented Unreality  This ability is defined as hijacking sensory data passing thru a target's Mindset (a web of nanomachines performing the job of brain cells), causing him to see unreal objects. The percentage of the population with a Mindset is about 33%.

 

I'd probably give it a -1/2 limitation.  YMMV with your GM.

1. Being a single target can have advantages from private communications to misleading the target with none the wiser.
2. AoE single target is 1/2 vs AoE radius which is +1.  Since images is inherently AoE, a drop of -1/2 seems reasonable to me.

 

This sounds good. But I would like to hear more ideas!

What would be the value of "Usable on only 1 target at a time" for a power like Images?

Mental Illusions doesn't fit my concept. And couldn't find a satisfactory answer under Limited Power. Using FREd, BTW.

• How did you come up with your 'handle' (forum name)?

​Name and middle initial. I know, creative.

• What was the first tabletop RPG you played?

Champions! the BBB

• What was the first tabletop RPG you GMed?

Champions

• What are you currently playing/GMing?

On hiatus from a group with System Attention-Deficit Disorder (Savage Worlds, Numenera, Dnd, Fantasy Craft, Shadow of the Demon Lord). A lot of false starts.

• When did you start to play Hero?

1990 ish. Think I ordered it from an American Entertainment catalog.

From Nova Praxis; Fray, a virtual combat sport where warriors compete in different challenges armed to the teeth with armaments that fit that week's theme. Themes can range from zero-G free-for-alls using only gravitic hammers, to recreations of past wars using period weapons.

Gambling on specific gladiators or stables (contracted teams) is very common.