Lee

On 3/12/2019 at 7:38 AM, Spence said:

But to topic.  I'd suggest the GM pick up a GUMSHOE game (under $20 for some) and read their guidelines for mysteries and building investigative scenarios. 

There is a GUMSHOE SRD that is a free download. It has (at least most of) the guidelines to which you are referring. Google GUMSHOE SRD. It was the first result for me.

Lee

This adder shouldn't cost too terribly much, 5 points or at most 10.  

How about making the adder similar to the point cost of the equivalent LS: Immunity?

Such as:

+1 for Any Single Common Poison/Disease

+2 for a Group of (Related) Common Poisons/Diseases

+3 for Any Single Uncommon Common Poison/ Disease

+4 for a Group of (Related) Uncommon Poisons/Diseases

+5 for Cure All Poisons

+5 for Cure All Diseases

Lee

Another idea would be to base your ENC points not only on the mass/weight but also on the volume of an object. That 1kg object the size of a baseball will be far less encumbering than that 1kg object that's 1m³.

It could be as simple as a few encumbrance levels (i.e. Unwieldy, Bulky, etc.) that increase the ENC by a given amount or as complex as determining the volume of the object and its average density, calculating its mass and using all that to produce your ENC points.

I'm using something similar to the latter for a crafting system I'm working on. I'm pleased with where it's going, but it's no where near ready to be used or I'd share.

Lee

Hey everyone,

How about using different terms for new players? Specifically, use Knockout Damage for "Normal Damage" and Killing (or Lethal) Damage for "Killing Damage". That way, there's no confusing "Normal Damage" that may not be...normal. It's really more about the intent of the damage.

Lee

I'm trying to build your classic chain lightning spell. I've built a blast with autofire, but it just doesn't feel right. I'm looking for something that will allow me to take AoE: Line, and "bounce" my blast from target to target.

 

I can't find any Area of Affect options that allows this, or anything that allows a bouncing attack special affect. Any suggestions?

 

Thanks!

There is a variant of Area of Effect in Digital Hero #10 pp 49 that does what I think you want:

So, if you use something like this with maybe No Knockback/Knockdown it might give you what you want.

Lee

Its a larger picture about a rule, not specific about martial arts.

Ah, okay. I misunderstood. Thanks.

Lee

That is pointless semantics... 

While you may not want to model such things in your game (thus making them pointless to you), they are nonetheless correct and may not be pointless to someone else. I was simply offering an alternative way of viewing the situation and other ways that the power might be used.

Regarding Bioluminousence:

At first glance a stupid 

No need to be insulting.

I will now bow out of what was, up until now an interesting and delightful interaction. But I leave you with two quotes:

“If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.”

--George Bernard Shaw

“It is because of my wish to be helpful that I share my ideas and experiences; being helpful to even one person is valuable. “

– The Dalai Lama

I've lived my life according to these philosophies. Perhaps I should now reconsider...

Lee

Hey everyone, forgive me if I've missed something (I did go back and re-read the entire thread). But are you forgetting the HERO System Martial Arts book (HSMA)?

What I mean is, on HSMA 106-107 there is a point breakdown of each of the martial arts elements (so that Advantages can be applied appropriately to them). Couldn't you use them to determine what the "point cost" of the basic maneuvers are and then determine if the martial "improvements" are properly costed? I know they are not actually the elements built as a power but it might be helpful. If you really want them defined as powers...

On HSMA 110, there are suggested power build starting points for most of the maneuver elements as well as some limitations that can be applied to simulate some of the other elements. Again, it may not be exactly what you want, but it might give a better starting point that going strictly from scratch.

It seems the "wheel" has already been invented--you just need to figure out how to build a Lamborghini with them...

Lee

Regardless, adding Transmit to Sight or Hearing is redundant and redundant because most characters already broadcast visual and audible information by default.

I have to say, I still disagree with this regarding Sight. While I certainly reflect light in the visible spectrum, I don't actually transmit it. That's why I brought up bioluminescence. A deep ocean creature will reflect light (if light reaches down that far or your submersible shines a light on it), but that's not the same as its bioluminescence. If they are in the dark, there is no reflected light, but they can certainly transmit using their bioluminescence.

I realize that this can bump up against Images, but ISTM that the difference is the complexity of the transmission. Again, using bioluminescence as an example, the lights they transmit usually only blink, change colors, change patterns or maybe act like "tracer" lights. However, they don't transmit High-Def images of a predator to scare away other fish. That would indeed be Images. I think it's just a GM call as to whether the Transmit of a Sense should be allowed or made into Images depending on the complexity of what is being accomplished.

Having said all that, I would agree with your assertion that Transmit is redundant for Sight if it is in the IR part of the spectrum. We all certainly transmit Infrared radiation as heat and so would be redundant in that realm. But, unless Infrared Perception is common I don't think Transmit is redundant.

With regards to it being redundant with Hearing, I agree except if the person is mute or the creature simply doesn't produce any sounds. There are animals that can hear but do not make sounds. So I'd say with hearing, Transmit is "baked in" but should be allowed to be bought off if the character is mute or a creature that makes no sound. You could go the other way and require Transmit to be purchased to be able to speak, but I like the other way around--make speaking the default.

Lee

My first thought about "Transmit (Sight)" was creatures that communicate through bioluminescence. Certainly not weaponizable, not secret (anyone with Sight in the right frequency range can see it), but unless you understood the "language", it would just be a lot of pretty lights. I suppose ASL might be similar with Gestures and Restrainable.

While I agree that Transmit (Hearing) is "speech", it might be used for "unusual" speech. For instance, whales' ability to communicate (almost) all the way around the world using ultra-low frequency sound.

Pheromones might be Transmit (Smell) with some limitations as to range (due to winds dispersing them). Unless of course the being communicating like this could somehow tag or encode the pheromones with uniquely identifiable pheromones and possibly position information...although, carried too far it might become Telepathy.

Transmit (Touch) might make for some interesting abilities, but I can't think of any off the top of my head right now. At least none that would have any game value.

Lee

Have you looked at the Advantage "Irreducible" (+1/4 Advantage, page 87 of the Advanced Player's Guide)? That would be a better way to model it. Or "Not Against (Special Effect)" Limitatiin? Yes, they are all or nothing effects, but that IS the easy way to do it, along with Requires A Roll.

No, I didn't read down that far. I wish it wasn't all or nothing. I'm leaning towards multiple levels of Hard To Dispel that reduce the DR's Activation Roll rather than an Activation Roll for the attack. I know it could achieve the same effect, but I want a way to differentiate a DR that is subject to a reduction in its Activation Roll and one that is not. If I achieve the same effect using an Activation Roll on the attack, all DR's are the same--not what I want.

Thanks for pointing it out, though. I may prove very useful in other situations.

So it looks like you're asking for:

 

--You are buying 100% Damage Reduction.  And that costs, what, 120 points?  I don't have the APG.  Now you're going to put a limitation on it.  I'll put 14- at a -1/2 limitation (because I don't remember what 13- is worth and the -1/2 math is easy).  So that means it's 80 points for 100% Damage Reduction, 14- activation.

 

--Now you want your opponent to be able to lower (i.e., make worse) your activation roll with his power.  So he could use his power, and your 100% Reduction goes from a 14-, to an 11-.  (There are several ways to do this, but none are straightforward.  We'll get to that a bit later.)

 

--Finally, due to the existence of this new ability to nerf your Damage Reduction, you want to get a cost break on it, because this brand new power your opponent might have, makes your Damage Reduction not as good as it used to be.

 

----

 

First, the good news.  There are several ways to do this that are perfectly book legal.

Now, the bad news.  To meet all three of your requirements, this is the sort of thing that probably needs to be established in a campaign or a game world from the very beginning, it is quite difficult to tack this sort of thing on a character at the end, and have it work the way you want it to work.

 

What I mean is this.  Superman is vulnerable to Kryptonite.  That's fine as a disadvantage in the game world, since everybody already knows what Kryptonite is.  You know if you're playing in the DC universe, that Superman will be around, and you'll probably need Kryptonite to fight him.  The GM might need to set some guidelines on how to build that glowing green rock, as far as game stats go, but everybody is aware of it going in.  But with your character, the power construct that you're talking about, isn't listed in any book.  Your character, Damage Reduction Man, isn't nearly as well known as Superman.  You can come up with some funky power construct, where you're somehow vulnerable to a weird thing that isn't a traditional attack power.  But almost nobody is going to have that power.  So it's really not much of a limitation.

 

Let's look at it in practice, and I'll show you what I mean.  Maybe that will be more clear.

 

There are several ways to let an opponent reduce the activation roll on your powers.  Just none of them that are covered by the basic rules.  So your opponent really has no reason to take this new "just made up" set of powers.  

 

Example:

You have 100% Damage Reduction, 14- activation (as we covered earlier).

You put an additional limitation on it.  "Activation roll goes down by one (14- to 13-, 13- to 12-, etc) for every level of 'Difficult to Dispel' on attack."

 

So if your opponent has 10D6 Energy Blast, you get your full normal Damage Reduction.  If your opponent has a 10D6 Energy Blast, with one level of Difficult to Dispel, then you have a 13- activation.  If he has two levels of Difficult to Dispel, then you have a 12- activation.  If he has 3 levels of Difficult to Dispel, then you have an 11- activation.

 

Simple, right?  The problem is, nobody ever takes "Difficult to Dispel" on their attacks.  Never, ever, ever.  Especially nobody takes that advantage multiple times on their attack powers.  In 20 years of Champions gaming, I've never even seen it once.  So you're basically vulnerable to an attack that nobody ever takes.  That's like taking x2 damage from pillows.  It's not worth any points.  It's perfectly legal to put that limitation on your defenses.  It just isn't going to be worth more than a -0 limitation.  Nobody ever uses it.  Nobody ever takes that power.  So it isn't worth a points discount to you.

 

Example 2:

You have 100% Damage Reduction, 14- activation.

Your opponent takes 4D6 Major Transform: changes target to version of target with worse activation rolls.

 

There.  That allows your opponent to lower your activation rolls.  Perfectly book legal.  The problem is, he can do that anyway.  He doesn't need you to take a special limitation on your power to be able to do that.  He paid for a Transform, so he can do it.  This also isn't worth a points discount to you.

 

--

 

For you to really get the effect you're looking for, it needs to be established in the campaign.  It needs to be something that people in the campaign would buy, because they know how it works.  For you to get points back, it basically needs to be something that other people would purchase anyway.  Which means it needs to be something that was either already useful for another reason, or it needs to be something that most people with Damage Reduction always take.

 

If the other guy has to pay points to get this ability, then you probably shouldn't get a points discount for it.  If you're getting a points discount for it, then the other guy probably shouldn't have to pay for it.

Yes, you have it exactly right. That's what I'm looking to build and I like your #1 example. As far as it being established in the campaign, indeed it is. Everyone has it available and is used commonly. Also, the attacks that will have the advantage are generally weapons, so you only need to equip the weapon to have the ability. So, while most people never use Difficult To Dispel, that would be built into the weapon(s) available for the characters to use. They wouldn't need to worry about buying it as long as they had the appropriate weapon.

I guess I was being a little too vague, but I was looking for a generalized solution and tried to break my question down into its simplest parts.

Einstein was right: "As simple as possible, but not too simple..."

Thanks for putting in as much thought as you did. I'm going to play around with your ideas first.

Lee

I don't think an advantage is appropriate for the attacking power. You probably need a linked power. Something like:

 

Change Environment: -2 to Skill Roll for Damage Reduction. 6 Active Points, 6 Real Points

Yes, I too wondered if a linked power would work better than an Advantage, but I couldn't think of which power to use. I never considered Change Environment. I'll have to look at it more closely. Thanks.

We have Armor Piercing and Penetrating, and an advantage to bypass Damage Negation, IIRC. I don't recall an advantage which permits an attack to bypass damage reduction, but perhaps a +1/4 advantage for each halving that the attack ignores might be suitable. I could see a smaller advantage than that, given the relative rarity of Damage Reduction (DR). Applying that advantage to the attack would create an attack which always bypasses DR.

 

Now we can simulate the "sometimes" aspect by placing an Activation Roll limitation on the advantage itself, making it a partially limited power, rather than reducing the activation roll of the target's DR. Let's say we apply a 8- Activation Roll to the advantage. If the target's DR has a 14- activation roll, then the DR will work if the target makes his roll (90.74% likely) and the attacker fails his (74.07% likely), so the odds of the target's DR working has been reduced from 90.74% to 67.21%, which falls between 11- and 12- for the DR to work.

 

Interesting! I had not thought about it from that angle before. I have some very definite percentages in mind and it may be relatively easy to get the "bypass" percentages where I need them to be rather than the activation percentages. I like the idea. I've got some number crunching to do...

Unless, of course, the defense in question has its Activation Roll reduced even more than some other defense would.

e.g. The attack reduces a normal target's Activation Roll by 3, but against a target whose defenses have the Limitation, the Activation Roll is reduced by 6.

Yes, that's what I mean. Ordinarily, the attack wouldn't affect the Activation Roll at all (reduces the Activation Roll by 0), but a target that had the Limitation on the defense would have it's Activation Roll reduced by some amount X that's greater than 0 (depending upon the level of the Advantage I'm also trying to create).

Thanks for the replies everyone, but I think I didn't express myself very well. I don't want to dynamically add Advantages or Limitations. Let me try again:

• I want an Advantage that can be added to an attack power (e.g Blast) when it's being built that will reduce the activation roll of the Damage Reduction. In other words, I want a way to build an attack that can overcome the defense by reducing its activation roll.
• I want a Limitation that can be added to the Damage Reduction power when it's being built that reflects the fact that it's not as effective as Damage Reduction that isn't affected by the above Advantage. Limited Power would work, but I'm unsure of how limiting being vulnerable to the Advantage would be (e.g. half as effective, one-quarter, etc.).

I hope that clarifies things a bit and thanks again for your ideas and suggestions.

Lee

Hello everyone,

I'm looking for some opinions about how to build a Power or Advantage that allows a character to reduce the "activation roll" (Requires A Roll) of another character's power. I'd also like a Limitation that can be applied to the affected power to indicate that it is affected by the "reducing" Advantage/Power and is thus, less effective. Here are some specifics:

I have a power that is Damage Reduction at 100% (from the APG) but Requires A Roll (the activation roll). This roll will never be better than 13-. The roll is required every time the Damage Reduction power reduces damage.

First of all, I want an Advantage (or power) that will allow another character to reduce (make worse) the activation roll of this Damage Reduction power, even to the point of making it impossible to activate.

Secondly, I want a Limitation that can be applied to the Damage Reduction power that, because it is vulnerable to the above Advantage/Power,'it's less effective than the base power and thus worth fewer points.

I don't think Drain is appropriate as it doesn't really apply to rolls. I think the same thing of Dispel. I also couldn't find any Skill or Talent that seemed appropriate. None of the Advantages that I'm familiar with seemed to do what I want, either.

So, how would you build this combination of Advantage for the attacking power and Limitation for the Damage Reduction?

Thanks,

Lee

Hero has its own quirks, advantages and difficulties. 

Shouldn't that read "Hero has its own perks, advantages and complications"? 

Hmm, let's see...

HERO System:

Perk: Universal Roleplaying Game (20 pts)

Naked Advantage: No Levels (+1/2)

Naked Advantage: No Classes (+1/2)

Naked Advantage: Armor reduces damage (+1/4)

Psychological Complication: Complicated System (Infrequently, Barely Impairing, 5 pts)

(Sorry, just couldn't resist   )

Lee

I was wondering if there was some kind of change or errata to the rules concerning the Usable On Others Advantage? In 6E1 page 354 it states that the minimum value regardless of modifiers is +1/4. However, when setting up a power in HERO Designer with the options I wanted, it showed a -1 for the "Advantage" and treated it like a Limitation. I actually like the way it works because if you put enough restrictions on the Advantage, it actually limits the power's effectiveness. However, the software is usually spot-on with regards to the RAW. So, has the rule changed or do HD and the RAW have "a difference of opinion" or is it possibly a bug?

I know you probably can't answer about the software. I'm just interested if the rule has changed and I just wasn't aware of it.

Thanks,

Lee

Hi,

I've seen the ability called "Defensive Maneuver" with I, II, III,IV attached in several places, yet I cannot seem to find it described anywhere in the 6E rules (volume 1 or 2). I also checked to see if it was something that was renamed or removed for 6E and didn't see it listed.

Can you either tell me where to find it in the rules or explain to me what each of the levels' effects are?

Thanks,

Lee

Hello,

I've been annotating my PDF's with the errata information and I came across something that looked odd.

The errata said, "In the Armor Coverage Table, the Limitation values for the Activation Roll for armor are incorrect; they should have the values indicated by the rules on 6E1 389-92."

Now, by my calculations, this makes the armor coverage of 14- and 15- actually advantages (+1/4 for 14- and at least +1/4 for 15- or possibly +1/2 if you continue the progression).

Is this correct? At those coverages, it would actually cost more than it would otherwise? I realize that there are other limitations that ordinarily would be added for armor (such as Mass and Real Armor), but it does seem to make the activation roll (Requires A Roll) at 14- or higher pointless. You might as well buy the power without the activation roll--it costs less and you get an 18- roll (aka automatic success)l.

Am I misunderstanding something? Did i mess up the math somewhere?

Thanks,

Lee

P.S.: Sorry if this has been asked/answered before. I would have searched the forum posts, but I couldn't find a search facility on the site. I really didn't want to slog through the large number of posts hoping to spot something and likely missing what I was looking for.