iamlibertarian

Thank you again on FantasyCodex. Not only does it help me with this particular issue, but it also gives me many ideas on other characters to create

THANK YOU. Purchased

I can't seem to find 'Fantasy Codex' anywhere... I don't suppose you would be willing to share your "Closet"?

What you say makes good sense (though the part of the reply I didn't quote, 6th Ed seems to rule out with the cannot duplicate other powers concept, such as same guy in perfect health duplicates Healing). However, what I failed to include before is that I am using a Transform/Summon/Multiform VPP which has the limitation: Limited Power, only Transform, Multiform, Summon. So IF there is a way to do it with Transform (the key power of those three for this character), I would like to find it...but if not, again this specific power (X of Holding) isn't really fundamental to this particular character creation. I just find it another 'cool use of the character'.

For example: Transform Suitcase to Suitcase of Holding - Severe Transform: (adding powers) Transdimensional to create a pocket dimension, by creating the item with the power Extradimensional Movement (as mentioned above) to put things in, and Stretching Transdimensional (also as above) UAA (or UBO since it can't be used as any form of attack) to pull things out? ----- Or: Transform Suitcase to Suitcase of Holding - Severe Transform: (adding powers) Transdimensional to create a pocket dimension, by creating the item with the power Extradimensional Space, then creating the Extradimensional Space with details (such as the only 'normal' way in and out is through the opening of the suitcase, paying for the amount of space inside, the 'atmosphere' of the pocket dimension, etc.). Then basing the BODY of the space on the usual 'each 15 pts of active cost = 1 BODY? ----- Now that I have re-looked at Object Creation (APG2 36), it seems to fit directly into the Transform power category (as well as Summon, if I were creating a Summoner). What do you think of this: *Object Creation: Suitcase (or whatever) of Holding: *+20 Custom Adder to create extremely complex objects (Normal Earth air, gravity, etc.) *+20 Custom Adder for +4 cubic meters in size *Transdimensional *UBO (not UAA since it cannot be used as an attack) The only problem with this is that Transform itself could no longer be used to create objects 'out of thin air' requiring a severe change to the current concept of the rest of the character. Thanks again!

Thanks everyone for the very useful info. But, of course, it leads to additional questions. 1) Using Extradimensional Space, is there a reasonable way to use Hero Designer 6 to make it happen? (Since I am using that to build the rest of the character.) 2) If not, do you think there is a reasonable way to do this using Transform (Transdimensional)? I only ask because the character concept is strictly a 'reality bender' using Transform powers only. If not, it really isn't that important to the character concept to have this power. It just seems cool to be able to Transform say, a Suitcase into a Suitcase of Holding. So the power Stretching is out (like they did in 5th Edition) Like, since Transform can technically add powers: Could it be something like Transform Suitcase into Suitcase with Extradimensional Space or Extradimensional Movement, with appropriate advantages and limitations? Thanks! DC

5th Ed (Ultimate SuperMage) had a way to make bags of holding and the like. Is there a way in 6th Ed, using Transform, to make a bag of holding or the like using Transform? Like using Transform with Transdimensional to make a pocket dimension in which things can be stored, and moved around the 'normal plane' carried by the user? Thanks!

Thanks, Chris! Both answers are very helpful. If I can ever find a local game, if the GM doesn't already have a solution, I can at least propose these. DC

I read the previous Transform vs Focus question and replies, but said topic was about a specifically created attack on foci. My question is more broad: What can Transform (especially Major or Severe) do to a focus? 1) Breakable Foci: since Transform does no body damage, how is any Transform against them calculated? Is it any different than a Transform against any other object? 2) Unbreakable Foci: can it do anything at all to them at all? If so, how? Thanks!

1, 2) I like this, though I might add even if it is turned off, it can still be turned back on again until the entire continuing charge is used, even if the power has been taken out of the VPP. But that even if the power is switched out of the VPP, the *points* don't return the VPP, thereby preventing handing out an unbalancing unlimited amount of gadgets/powers. 3) That makes sense / doesn't ruin game balance, like in the case of a Smoke Generator. Even if the 'smoke generator' is taken out of the VPP, the generator can still be used by the recipient until used up or returned to be made into a new gadget, but the Points don't return to the VPP until the charge is used up or it is returned. 4) Everything has to be able to fit into the VPP to begin with, of course. And the points remain out of the VPP until the next day, the PC goes back to the lab to make more, etc, (however it was originally designed and agreed to) to make make more, etc. Love that Genie analogy!

I like the thought of a PC who (has already paid for Wealthy) who owns a series of Health Rejuvenation or Age Rejuvenation clinics for the rich and powerful, makes potions or 'medicines' which s/he sends to those clinics, and the points used (in her VPP) don't come back until the potions/medicines are used up or the 'charges' (efficacy of the medicine) expires.

I wonder if Time Limit would be good for returning the points. As in, unlike handing out a gun where the gun has to be returned before the points could ever be used again, handing out power crystals (which are aplenty, but have to be quickly charged by Maker and attached to the receiver's personal gun), and the charge(s) last only 24 hours use them or not, before the charges die out and the energy returns to availability for Maker to recreate (Recoverable?). Or in the case of a Mage, the focus is a mystic symbol drawn on a weapon (or some item worn by the receiver in the case of invisibility) which wears off in 4 hours whether used or not. Yeah, that sounds like a recoverable charge where the recovery happens and the power becomes available to the VPP again after X hours whether the power was used or not. EDIT: I am not trying to make a character who can hand out an endless supply of everything. Rather, I am trying to make a support character who can often be 'Johnny on the spot' and often get the characters what they need, without having to forever give up all his/her abilities on the very first mission based on the whims of the receivers of that assistance. Like a gadgeteer who builds in failsafes, or a Mage who can recall his power when needed even if it costs the receiver that power s/he thought s/he was going to have (sound nice and comic book-dramatic).

In the end (I am the one with the original question) it all really seems to come down to a combination of Game Balance and Special Effects. Maker (Gadget VPP) gives out an Invisibility Belt, it could be handled multiple ways: -Receiver gets the 3 uses (charges) per day, every day, and the belt automatically recharges daily, keeps it, those points are locked out of the VPP until the belt is returned -Receiver gets the 3 uses (charges) per day, it has to be returned to Maker to be recharged (SFX). Maker does so and the points are still locked up, or does not and the points are available to the pool again. -Receiver gets the 3 uses (charges) for one day, not recoverable, once used, the points automatically go back into the VPP to be used again (also SFX) Chemist makes a Potion of Invis from a VPP with X doses. Gives it out. When the doses are used, they are used up, the points return, and Receiver must beg for another, potion, lol. So yeah, the character with the VPP can be a potent teammate to boost the other team members, as long as the VPP character is willing to give up a lot of his/her personal power for a while. EDIT: It also might be smart of the person with the VPP to put a Time Limit on the UBO Power, lol.

Makes sense. Heading back to start re-re-tooling the the spells/powers I just re-tooled last night to again re-include UBO, since the character that this thread started about is a 'support character' who will be handing things out (in his case a Mage handing out potions / magic items) frequently, lol. It can be argued that (since there are multiple ways to pay for something in this system) that UBO is one way to pay for the increased utility, but paying for continuing charges and/or Time Limit also is valid and has now been paid for. However, if the Foci with Time Limit or Continuing Charges are considered independent of the VPP once handed out, how does the character get those points back to switch which powers are available in the VPP? Can the character make those Independent 8 grenades with those qualities, then switch the VPP away from the grenadesmand make 8 guns, hand them out, switch to and make 8 invisibility belts, then hand them out as well, and so on?

That's a good point, but since it is better to require the player to come up with something to say than to change the rules... He could answer, "Quantum mechanics," lol. And if a professor of quantum mechanics is in the room and questions that, "Shhh, it is really magic and I am hiding it with pseudo science." Or, "It is truly my magnificent and shining personal soul with provides the core power of any gadget I make for you. Each time you sonofabitches begs me for one of my awesome creations, you are sucking part of the beauty known as my soul. So be careful with the grenade!" And so on. Yeah, the character should come up with something. But in a super powered, mystical universe, that shouldn't be tooooo hard, lol.

No, the more I read about it, the more I find it says that the character does not need UBO, and the charges (grenades, potions, other foci) don't just become duds, don't go poof, or anything like that. They don't have to be 'recovered' before those points can be allocated again. They just become unusable if the character switches said power out of the VPP until the power is put back into the VPP. 6E1 pg 410: "The Charges Limitation is a special case. If the GM allows it, a character may take Charges for a VPP power. However, if he switches to another power, he must keep track of the first power’s Charges. When he switches back to the first power, he does not get a new, full supply of Charges — he must pick up where he left off before."

So, I am thinking that (again, I don't even have a group to play in yet, but trying to make it presentable when I find said group), because its a focus, and a universal one at that, no UBO is needed, but the character simply cannot get those VPP points back until the items (potions, grenades, etc.) either are used up, returned, destroyed, etc. So, say, if they are Charges (lets use grenades). Sure, more could be made the next day (if charges per day is how the power is laid out) up to the maximum number of charges available (so if it is 6 charges per day, 6 made today, three used up, tomorrow 3 more can be made), but until all charges are 'gone' the character cannot even swap the points out of the VPP?

Very good point! Makes much sense. But then... if the kit (VPP) contains *both* Flashbangs 6 charges, *and* Smoke Grenades 6 charges, it is reasonable to hand both of them out, considering all the other posts/opinions above? Or, Grenadier has a total of 12 charges (not recoverable), creates 6 before heading out for the mission, and can make 6 more in the field later? Thanks as always for your wise advice Lucius.

So: UBO... Not Simultaneously...Just UBO... The focused power with charges and triggered and all that rot. The character can make a power (potion or grenade) with, say, 6 charges, hang onto them at the time of creating, and hand them out as needed? This is reasonable in the average campaign? If this is what is being said, it would solve my dilemma. Thanks!

Off to bed for me (I work 12 hour night shifts). Thanks for all the great info so far everyone. Happy to receive more thoughts! DC

Aha! Getting somewhere! Again, I don't mind paying more for more usefulness, just needing the mechanics which work for the concept. But what if the creating character wants to hang onto one of the grenades for himself... Uncontrolled? Or would that just have to be a case of the GM getting the concept and allowing them to be uncontrolled by the creator (thereby paying an appropriate higher cost for the higher usefulness), but allowing the individual recipients (including the creator himself) being allowed to control the usage?

But what if the character wants to hang onto them after creation, and dole them out as needed?

1) Well, true, 'grenade' doesn't really fit this, but some specialty item was the thought. For example Coulson's cool car wouldn't likely be in Nick's VPP, but some special need might call for it and SHIELD might convince him to loan it, lol. 2) True. General Concept = Outfitter for varied circumstances (though occasionally the character gets to be his own UBO recipient. But see my other post in this thread about not liking the UBO mechanics for this specific purpose. If the character makes 6 grenades/potions before leaving base, it would be nice during the mission to be able to choose at that moment (in the middle of the mission) to hand the explosive grenade to the Flyer to drop in the center of the bad guys, and separately choose to hand the healing potion to the speedster to get to a teammate quickly, while using the AE invisibility dust on the rest of the group himself, and have this be the regular everyday concept of the character to act in this manner, and UOO doesn't support that well (see the other post).

I will be the player (when I can find a game). Character creation just happens to be (almost) as much fun as the actual play. But: 1) I don't like going to the trouble of creating complex and interesting characters if they are going to be tossed the minute I walk in the door, and, 2) I Want to GM again (haven't played or GMd Hero System since 4th Ed), and while I love the complexity and 'can do anything-ness' of the Hero System, I have to really, deeply understand it. So, here I am asking questions for both reasons.

See, I don't mind paying the UBO price. I agree that the more useful something is, the higher the price should be. I just don't necessarily like the Mechanics of UBO for this particular purpose. Let's say the character can make 6 Grenades (Charges) with one Use/Slot of the VPP. If the character has only paid for UBO, the character can only transfer those grenades to one character. One character now has 6 grenades worth of power. Can't hand 3 to two different characters, even though that is the same amount of power in a battle. If the character pays for Useable Simultaneously x4 and makes the same 6 grenades, he can still only hand out the grenades to 4 characters, even if the team has 6 characters. One grenade per member or 6 grenades for one character, same power level. Useful for one well placed character to use all six, but less useful if the grenades need to be used in multiple locations. Balances out. If Useable Nearby is paid for, and the 6 Grenades are created at the base before the mission, can't hand them out later during the mission to anyone who wasn't present During the creation.