iamlibertarian

Ghods, I think I just FINALLY got it. I have been playing D&D for too long (only because it was the only game I could find in town), and had it in my head, I guess, that one casting of something costs exactly the same, no matter how many times you cast it and, ultimately, how many people you help. I think it comes from playing so many Buffers... Like casting Bless from D&D, but that is more like an AID, which *can* be cast repeatedly. I just have to accept that not all Buffs in HERO are AIDs or Healings, or the like. Thanks Lucius, those examples 'flipped a switch' in my brain, Finally! DC

Again, at least Trying to keep it simple, lol. I can cast +1 OCV on a weapon, or have a Gadgeteer be able to put a +1 OCV sight on a weapon. Say, mid-combat. Already has to be UBO if I want to able to do it in multiple combats (as opposed to casting it on my own Universal weapon, and this one time when my character happens to get knocked out and another character picks up my weapon and uses it that one time). Looking for the best way to have, after casting that +1 OCV on another character's weapon, to not be stuck unable to also cast on my own weapon. Or, if another character says, "Me too please!" I know it is doable. Just looking for the best and most reasonable way to do it.

It doesn't? So I don't have to pay for HRRT for a Cell Phone, or pay for a Base or the character's home to have a computer for basic internet access? Everything I read says you have to pay CP in order just to have a pair of simple, cheap, walkie-talkies.

Thank you So Much for invoking Occam's Razor *and* keeping it that simple. Works for me! Is it safe to assume that you would agree that once said other character pays the CP (since it has to be UBO to be able to cast for another first), my character can then go ahead and cast the spell again?

That is why I am asking Outside the game, lol.

I am not necessarily looking to have a character truly mass produce. I figured if I understood mass producing, I would better understand the small scale. Say a character "casts", +1 OCV on his own weapon regularly, maybe at the beginning of a combat. Now, the character gets some CP to spend and wants to do that for other characters in the party as well. AE doesn't work, even with UBO. Has to be UBO if it is just for one other character. But, even after paying for UBO, if I cast it on someone else's weapon, my character can't cast it on his own until the other character loses the +1 OCV. Not useful. To be able to do both, the character has to pay for Simultaneously. Where the mass production question comes in is that: Simultaneously for just my character and one other it is +1/2. Guns mass produced, the cost to produce is the same for each gun. But instead of Fixed Costs per casting, if my character wanted to increase the number of people he can add that +1 OCV to, the CP cost PER buffed character goes up because of the way Simultaneously works. Just trying to make sure I understand it all...

You are not entirely wrong. I am trying to learn the possibilities, so yes, as to how to do them best, and to learn what is not allowed, and what is reasonable. Both for selfish reasons of not wanting my first character sheet given to the dog to pee on, and, to hopefully learn how to run this game, since I can't find a game around here...yet. But some questions, and answers, bring up other questions. Like, how does one create a magic item without losing the ability to use the spell that created the item, or spending an ever increasing amount to create just the same effect. Once i have an actual interest in something, that is when I learn best. If I could actually play, that is how I would learn the system best. But until I can, character creation is something I enjoy anyway, and I ask questions.

I am not a Total newbie, but I haven't played since 4th Edition, soooo long ago, lol. So you are saying that if I want to create, say, a Ring of Invisibility (which lasts a Long time, as in your standard magick item or gadget that bends light for instance), I have to use UOO . And if I do so, I lose the ability to use that spell or gadget myself. Forever. (Short of paying for an ever increasing cost for Simultaneously.) Or I have to use Transform instead. I think I like the Fantasy Hero method better. Now to find a GM who will let me use the FH version of creation in a Super Hero game. Or hell, to find a GM at all! lol. Thanks again for all your advice

I am probably missing something, somewhere, knowing me, lol, but... Summoning and beating something in an EGO contest gets you EGO/5 # of tasks. But once those tasks are complete, you can try and beat that summoned being again, getting another EGO/5 worth of tasks. If you get lucky, you may even a third time. EGO 20/5 = 4 tasks. With Amicable: Friendly, you don't have to beat it in said EGO contest. You just get your tasks, because it is friendly and wants to help you. But... I see no way to extend those tasks, other than GM fiat. EGO 20/4 = 5 tasks. And then it is done. Am I missing something, or is it easier to get a greater number of tasks out of a being who is neutral (or worse) to you than it is from a friendly being? Thanks! DC

Well, that's my problem then. I don't have 5E. I went from 4E to 6E. But then, why do the vehicles created have to pay for movement? I know, silly question. But I ask that because it begs the question of why other things like GPS (Bump of Direction) have to be paid for? Again, I only ask because I don't have 5E books. And, do you think it would be reasonable in today's 6E world for cars to have GPS (whether attached to the car or the user's cell phone) as an every vehicle thing now? Thanks!

None of the pre-built ground vehicles I have seen, so far anyway, have any Headlights. Some have radar and the like, but even then, I guess at night they drive around with a high chance of someone running into them. LMAO.

For those who have stuck it out this far (Thank You), to those saying that UOO (Simultaneously) is needed to grant a magical item to another character (whether Fantasy or Superhero) it isn't so, according to the rules. Not even for allies. If the ally wants to borrow said item briefly, if it is a Universal Focus, they can do so. If they want to keep it for their own, they pay CP. No UOO. Not a single item I have seen so far in any of the source material, main rules, Fantasy, the various Treasures books, has UOO on it. If I simply want to cast a spell or give a potion to AID someone's STR, I do so. And then next phase, I can still do the same for another Ally. The fact is, if I want to give someone a focus with a spell I cast on it, I can't use *that* focus again until returned or retrieved, but if I have another item to use as a focus, I can re-cast that spell again on the second focus and give it away, and then go on to cast it yet again for my own focus (ex: cast +1 OCV on a dagger and give it to one ally, cast it again on a club, give it to another ally, and yet again on my own staff). The only time I need UOO is if I want to grant Others the ability to use the Spell in question itself. It not only fits the rules, but the game-balancing factor is that such is what i am doing on My phases, rather than blasting the enemy or putting up a protective barrier. If it is a long term item, the receiver pays CP. If the receiver loses it, he can't use it again (and wasting those CP) until retrieved, or a nice mage ally like myself makes him another during our off time. Everything I have found in the rules, main and fantasy, says so.

So yes, in response to Lucius, one of the ways I am considering making an item is through a VPP. I am not sure how that matters though, because for anyone to use any said items on a long-term basis is to pay CP for it. If it is a short term item, it is no different that a character using any short-term power through a focus via a VPP.

The reason why I worry about how it is done is because how it is done affects the Active Point cost, which affects the Real Cost. If a character casts a super long-lasting spell mid-adventure on an item, and someone wants to keep it, they should pay CP. I don't think anyone disputes that. Back to the +1 OCV Sword. If I make it super long lasting using AID, the cost to make it (and therefore the CP expenditure) is higher than, say, Characteristics as Power +1 OCV, which is what generated this novella of a topic, lol.

Fantasy Hero says that depending on the flavor of the game, and because many GMs feel it unfair for the creator to pay the points for something they will never use, then the Receiver pays the CP.

I will look at the links after looking at Fantasy, but I don't think that I don't get it? Not sure what you think I am not getting is the problem. In Superhero settings, *everything* costs CP. That is why even a Cell Phone requires CP. I don't dispute this, and am not trying to find a way to work around it. I am merely trying to understand the mechanics of Building something, whether it be a +1 OCV sword, a +1 OCV Sight, etc. If I have a 'spell' that gives my sword +1 OCV for X minutes, that's cool, but it is not truly a 'magic item', a thing of permanence (for which one would have to pay CP.

Ahhh, now that I get. Sort of. Though Stark Industries, for example, mass produces weapons for the government (or at least did). But if Iron Man wants to Use whatever he produces, he has to pay CP. See, I have never disputed that. I only asked about the mechanics of mass production (in game) to try and understand the mechanics of creating magic items. I am trying to find my copy of Fantasy now. I hope it translates well to Superhero, lol.

Ok, just did, 6E1 29. CP must be spent. I get that. So, say, for an improved sword (+1 OCV), or a rifle sight, you pay CP to -have- it. Money, if anything at all, is just a vehicle to -get- it (as is having a teammate Make it: staple of superhero comics). Still have to pay CP to own it. The character Receiving the power pays CP. Never disputed that. So I am not sure to what you are referring? Thanks again for the help!

So many rules in Fantasy don't translate well to Superhero, but I will give it a look again. It has been a while... But I never understood the character who creates the item being the one to spend the CP. That character is really nothing more than the 'vehicle' for another character gaining another power. I mean, if the receiving character could just walk into a gun store and buy a gun, spending the CP to have it, then a creating character should be the same in my opinion. /shrug I still don't have an answer on how to handle the other half of the original question though. When speaking specifically about casting a 'characteristics as powers' "spell" (with UOO vs a long-duration AID, I still can't see any reason to use the AID, since to match the value of the characteristics as powers, the AID is much more expensive. So there must be a base reason for characteristics as powers existence as a rule must have some specific intended use instead of AID, and I just can't figure out what that is.

Nah, I am not looking about buying them. I truly am wondering about how the mechanics of how such a company would make them, using the rules. I guess it doesn't really matter, because yes, money can buy them. And I guess even be used to put them together/build them for said company. I only ask because my other topic about how to make magic items, or to cast long-lasting spells on other characters, has become very complicated currently. In that other topic, it appears that to create a said item by casting a spell (that +1 OCV sword) may need useable simultaneously if the same character who creates the magic sword ever wants to be able to use the spell on his own weapon ever again. Same for a gadgeteer who wants to make a +1 OCV Rifle/Pistol Sight. Unless he spends an ever increasing amount for the ever increasing cost of Useable Simultaneously, he can only make one Sight and give it away (even if the receiving character pays CP to keep it), and never be able to have a Sight for his own weapon ever again. So I figured the mechanics behind mass producing weapons might help me understand this. DC

How does a company, in game, say, Smith and Wesson, mass produce Pistols? What are the mechanics involved? No, I am not looking for "a cheap way to buy lot of weapons or gadgets and hand them out." Allies, or enemies for that matter, or even strangers, lol, still have to pay CP to own them. It is just that understanding the mechanics might help me understand some other things. Thanks! DC

Maybe Transform is what I need. Again, the whole point of the original question was how to create a 'permanent' magic item, and do so in the simplest way. Characters can keep them or not after the adventure, if they wish to pay the CP or not. And for simple mid-adventure buffs, just cast a Characteristic as a Power if it is a characteristic (simplest way), and if the buff isn't a characteristic, use AID with a long return rate if it is for a power they already have, or still use Transform with 'heals back normally' otherwise, which has the granted buff just gradually fade away. That way, I can just avoid the whole "useable simultaneously" mess.

Ummmm...why? There are multiple ways to construct everything. I know that Useable Simultaneously is one of them. I originally took Useable Simultaneously as 'per casting.' I guess I could be wrong... But that would make it awfully tough to Ever create a true magick item. My character pays CP for a spell, "+1 OCV, Focus (H-H weapon)". Which he originally intends for his mage's staff. If he ever uses UOO to create a weapon for someone else, he can Never ever use it again either for himself or to ever create another such sword for someone else? Unless of course he wants to pay an ever increasing cost for an item for which the power never increases? I have to wrap my head around this... Speaking of multiple ways to construct everything, a Persistent beneficial Spell/Power bought to 0 END can be cast in an area and affect multiple allies without incurring the ever increasing Active Point cost of UOO (Simultaneously) as another way of creating a power. Let's take that same +1 OCV. It can be built with Weapon Foci to affect everyone in the area of effect. Hmmm...still trying to wrap my head around this... For that matter, how is a standard Pistol ever mass produced by a company? UOO, Simultaneously, with ever increasing costs to make? I am not looking to have a character be able to build 'cheap way to buy lot of weapons or gadgets and hand them out.' If characters want to keep them after an adventure, they have to pay CP just like 'buying a pistol from a store'.