iamlibertarian

How as GMs do you handle characters acquiring new items of power, which they then decide to keep (understandably)? For example, finding a wand that grants a small multipower or VPP. I don't want to completely sideline them from other things they might 'learn' over time. Nor, do I (unless it fits the story, like spending time and effort to learn how to use the item) want to make them save up the XP first before they can use the item. I was thinking of letting it be that all future XP except for 1 point (to be spent on whatever they want) be spent on keeping the item. Thoughts?

I *think* I already know the answer to this, but: 6E1 396: "The power always has a set total of Limitation values, but the character can alter the exact type of Limitations to fit the circumstance." Does this mean a variable set total of Limitation values which is a strict number? Or does this mean a variable *minimum* set total of Limitation values? For example: Variable -2 worth of limitations (worth -1) and must have ONLY -2 worth or limitations. Or, Same power actually has -3 worth of limitations, but can only switch around -2 worth of those? Thanks! DC

1) In an edition which has Independent, I don't see a problem with handing the item out, even in a point balanced campaign like Supers. If my character casts Aid STR on a brick, giving him/her an extra 15 pts STR, I see no difference if I instead hand that character an Independent item which does the same. In fact, the direct use of Aid STR, that is more powerful, as my character can cast that on multiple teammates, whereas with the Independent item, I can only hand it to one character. In either example, the CP were paid. 2) I like that, I will have to create a character with that power

1) I agree, in 6E, which does not have Independent. But I am not sure I agree about with editions which have Independent, even in a point balanced campaign like Supers. IF Independent were available, I see no difference in game balance with me casting an Aid Strength on a brick giving him/her another 15 points STR, and putting it on an Independent item and handing it to him. In fact, the Aid STR might be More powerful. With the Independent item, I can only hand it out to one character, and with the Aid STR power, I can cast it on multiple people. In either example, the CP are paid. 2) I like this example, and will have to use it on a character some time

Additional value (to the game) of Independent: If I intended it for my character, but hand it off more often than not, *I* don't get to use it when handed off. Even if the character who uses it the most doesn't pay CP, my character did. Just like a base, useful the team, Someone needs to pay the points, and my character did.

I miss "Independent". It made true magic items rather than just foci which other can sometimes use. If my character made items which could truly be 'handed out,' then the receiving characters would have to pay the CP for it, and my character was just the 'cool excuse'.

Now see, that is a debate argument I can accept. And GMs can run things with any rules changes or ignoring rules completely if they don't like them. But it doesn't invalidate that it is in the rule books as written, and that it doesn't mean what it means.

I *think* I already know the answer to this, but: 6E1 396: "The power always has a set total of Limitation values, but the character can alter the exact type of Limitations to fit the circumstance." Does this mean a variable set total of Limitation values which is a strict number? Or does this mean a variable *minimum* set total of Limitation values? For example: Variable -2 worth of limitations (worth -1) and must have ONLY -2 worth or limitations. Or, Same power actually has -3 worth of limitations, but can only switch around -2 worth of those? Thanks! DC

Thanks everyone. I am getting great info on how to make the Precog (true precog power) useful to the game, and bring Extra fun to the game instead of hamstringing it. DC

"Independent" has been removed from 6E

I will do whatever my GM allows, no more or less. Words have meaning. I typed in the words from the rule book. /shrug

"No. It strikes me as strange to include a power with Charges Do Not Recover in a Multipower, and I plan to check this as soon as I find my copy of Fantasy Hero Complete. But what that would mean would be that that specific slot could only be used the number of times it had Charges for. And then of course, you could buy the Multipower Slot over again (or rather, buy another one that's identical) to use the power again. What you can NOT do is "expend time and effort" without also spending character points and get that power back. Look, if you don't believe me, feel free to take it up with Mr. Long or Mr. Surbrook." ----- I am only quoting the rules. As a GM, you are free to do it any way you like. But it says what it says. /shrug

1) But that is not what the *rules* say, at least according to the rules example I showed. Normal charges happen daily -in general-. Special circumstances may cause hardship on any character, regardless of how the powers were built. 2) Yes, but Black Widow might be built on recoverable charges (most likely), where on a normal day she could just return to the base, or any gun shop, and buy more bullets anytime outside of combat, rather than just once per day. This is an example of special circumstances which make things more difficult regardless of the build. But Black Widow is also not Doctor Strange, or some Priest of SoAndSo, for whom a charged power does just mystically recharge daily. 3) So in a wizard context, yes scrolls *could* simply be defined as regular charges as you say, but that would make them Recoverable Charges, if they could be done any time outside of combat. But according to FHC 244, they can also be Never Recover, be (-2), and just take "time and proper materials" to create a New Scroll. And can even be put into a Multipower that way if one chooses. GMs can run anything any way they want. But the rules themselves say that Charges that Never Recover are simply never "recovered", but can be re-cast/created. 4) "You could also potentially do them using a Summon Scroll spell (loaded with extra time requireds and other limitations that prevent it being cast outside the magical workshop). In that case the "does not recharge" would represent the scroll destructing after use." This is true, and I like it. But it just goes to show yet another way that said -2 limitation is valid for things which CAN be recreated, it just takes time and effort to do so. Thanks for making me think DC

But that is always the case. GM allowance, for Anything you build. Some GMs don't allow Pre/Retrocog *at all*. Some don't allow Telepathy (or at least deep mind reading) *at all*. But the rules themselves allow it. I am just looking for clarification of the rules themselves. Powers with "Charges Never Recover" appears to mean that only the Charges never *recover*, but the power can be re-cast (spells), or re-created (gadgets), etc., with time and effort.

Fantasy Hero Complete 244: After much discussion in another thread, I was convinced that once a charge which never recovers has been used, there is no way in heaven and earth that charge could ever exist again. The scroll description and example given shows scrolls created as a Multipower, where the charges on the scroll Never Recover. But the description right above that scroll states: "It also causes the spell to erase itself from the scroll. Creating a new scroll takes time and the proper materials." What this says to me is that charges which never recover do not just, 'show up again the next day Automatically', but that they can be 'recast or recreated' with time and effort. Re-Charge vs re-Cover: With this rule from FHC, it makes me think in terms of that original fantasy game system: Earlier versions would have, say, a Staff of Fireballs which could never recover. And that systems staves now recover some charges every day. But even the earlier ones which did not recover, with the right skills/knowledges/powers (spell casting), said staves could be re-Charged, as opposed to re-Covered. Summary: 1) Without specific limitations, charges Recover naturally (typically a day according to the rules). Priests get them back next day, Gadgets take time to naturally recharge, Knife wielders take time to go back to base and get more knives, etc. 2) Recoverable Charges limitation: Sweep the field after combat to find those knives or arrows, but once done, ready for the next combat. Priest sits and prays for an hour. Mage studies his spellbook for an hour. Gadgeteer plugs his blasters into his portable charger for an hour, etc. 3) Never recover: 6E1 (372) "Charges which Never Recover are primarily intended for intriguing power constructs with a small number of Charges, like a one-time-use magic scroll." FHC 244: "It also causes the spell to erase itself from the scroll. Creating a new scroll takes time and the proper materials." WITH the example of Never Recover spells being recreateable, and being in a Multipower no less. It is the CHARGE which is not recoverable (does not automatically re-happen). But the spell/power/etc. can be re-cast/re-created, with time and effort, like writing a new scroll.

I like this very much Chris. I mean, if all the player wants out of it is, "Is the hallway empty for 5 minutes, so we can teleport in," I think that should be easily doable, and even then, if that changes the players' actions, that can always change what happens in the next 5 minutes. If all they want is to see is the dice rolls at a craps tables, they better also be buying Filthy Rich, and if not, it creates a plot seed where Casinos track down this filthy cheating scum, lol. If they only want combat value out of it, they can do what the books say and just use Precog as a Special Effect for other abilities (OCV, DCV, etc.) Or if reading tomorrow's headlines for a, "Superhero Group once again foils a tragedy." outcome, it just lets them be there to be a part of the action (plot seed) but guarantees no specific outcome.

That is a marvelous way to run a Precog, for sure Would you let a PC have it? Or would that Eff Up your plots?

The thing is, there is So Much more than just combat as a reason to be a precog. Just for combat, sure, easy to just buy combat powers with a Precog special effect. Want to see the next dice roll at the craps table, or tomorrow's headlines, or your sweetie's next intended cooked meal so you can surprise him/her with the ingredients already prepared, and so on... Or yeah, see the scene of a murder. Doesn't mean you automatically know who did it, but it might give you more clues, advancing the plot.

LMAO. Love it

" So I'd tell the players that certain uses of the power may require ending the game session early for the GM to think about what happens next." I like that a lot, as it will get that to want Not to use it. Or, how about requiring Charges or the like, a very limited number of them. They can know anything at all that they want to that Precog could naturally discern. Once or twice per day. That would make them Very picky. And if they accidentally use it up on something minor, too bad... ;-)

I haven't been able to play since 4th Ed. But I just remembered a favorite old combo power tactic. If your team is well known and an enemy studies its tactics well, this doesn't last long as a good tactic. But in the beginning it was fun to watch. You build a continuing Healing with something resembling a Personal Surface. Your teammates quickly run, fly, whatever, to touch you, and they are noticeably looking better after doing so and go on to resume combat. The enemies are going to want to take you out, but you have decent PD, ED to start with, and unbeknownst to the enemies, you have an Absorption which feeds into your defenses and reduces damage. If they find they can't take you out, they decide to take advantage and attack you directly, only to find out that the Healing is Selective, and that you have a nasty Damage Shield as well. I am going to have to build something like that for 6E

LOL. Well, how do you (and others) deal with into trying to be gathered outside of combat? Such as, "I want to know what time nobody will be in this particular hallway so the whole team can teleport in unobserved by direct eyes," question? (Realizing of course that time is mutable if you change actions.) Or, "Watch this NPC to find out that time s/he goes to sleep tonight." True Precog (while it can be unbalancing of course) should be able to get an advantage in Any situation, which nobody can afford to pay for all the possible permutations when buying other powers which simulate Precog... Such as, "I want to know what price a certain stock will be tomorrow so as to either buy into the enemy's company's stock, or to short it," with this use of Precog, PLUS a combat use of Precog, PLUS, "I want to know what the rolls will be at this craps table for the next 10 minutes," PLUS, "I want to know what the enemy's public speech will say tomorrow so I can counter it in the media," PLUS, "I want to see tomorrows newspaper headlines so my team can be the heroes by preventing said tragedy at the last minute, increasing my team's reputation with the public," and so on...

LMAO

In other words, there are a billion Evil summonable critters who can run about causing mayhem and destruction. Are there any *pre-build* critters which run around doing good? Other than your general animal intelligence beasts, 99% of the rest of the critters out there Seem to be just Evil critters, meant to be used by GMs, which are on occasion able to be forced to serve 'good' characters, still only in destructive ways. Is there a "Spirit of Healing" for example which could be put to "Good" use? Anything like it at all, which is *pre-built* and ready to Summon or put to Good use? Thanks, DC

I am not sure I understand the point of penalizing players for intelligent combat...