LoneWolf

Stretching is a constant power, so you only have to pay END per phase no matter what how many limbs you are stretching. In fact, the amount of Stretching represents the total amount the character can stretch so if they are reaching into two locations it has to be divided up between the locations. So, it is only 4 END not 12. You also only have to pay END for STR once per round no matter how often it is used. This is a Ninja so that probably means most of his damage is coming from martial arts so other than STR and Stretching he should not need to use more END for attacking. So, assuming a 15 STR, that comes out to 5 END total for all his attacks unless he is using a weapon that cost END. He will need to pay the END for the image or buy them at 0 END. The images will almost need to be used at full so that will cancel out the lesser power being a constant and put the limitation back to -1/2. You could also take unified power for to reduce the cost further. Putting the linked power into a multipower would reduce the cost even further. This was done mostly off the top of my head so it may need to be fined tuned, but the concept is sound.

All game systems abstract combat to one degree or another. Hero System actually does this less than most other systems. Keep in mind that a segment in Hero System is 1 second, and a turn is 12 seconds. Most other games have longer time divisions so that leads to you being able to do more things in your action. In Pathfinder a round is 6 seconds in which each character gets to act once. In Hero System a character might be able to act anywhere between 1-4 times. Holding actions too me seems more realistic than trading of acting like seesaw. In the real world people wait for or try to create an opening instead of standing there trading blows. It allows for things like follow up attacks where the first attack is designed to put the character at a disadvantage so the next attack can take them down. That is a lot more difficult to achieve in other system than it is in Hero System. The downside of this is that the Hero System has more complexity so often new players have trouble figuring out how to pull of what they are trying to do.

Advanced player can already do a lot of this by holding actions like you suggested earlier or purchasing specific powers and skills. A beginning player thinks a high DEX means you go first, an advanced player realizes that a high DEX allow you to choose when you go.

From the looks of it you did. What Hugh is trying to say is that the Rules Question area is the wrong forum for this type of thing. As he mention very few people can respond there, and all you will get is an answer on how the rule works. You already know how the rule works and it looks like you want a discussion and feedback from others.

When someone is actively looking for something that is obviously a sight perception roll, but what about when they are not actively looking or listening. If a character is trying to use stealth on someone who does not know they are there, does the other they get a perception roll to notice them. Is that a sight only perception roll or does it include all senses. Also if character is trying to find someone do you allow them separate rolls for each sense? That would bog down the game considerably.

Someone earlier was commenting on being in the dark only giving a -4 penalty. The thing to realize is that your perception roll includes all your senses. If you make your roll by -4 you detect what you are trying to find by a sense other than sight. You still cannot see the person in the dark, but you have heard or smelled them. You still take all the penalties of not having a combat sense, unless of course you have another combat sense. A -4 is more significant than it seems. To the person with an 11 perception roll it reduces your chance by 47%, for a 15 or less it is still a 32% reduction.

It would give a huge advantage to faster characters as it would allow them to move attack and move again. Someone with a higher SPD and good movement would be able to keep out of reach when it is not their phase. This can be done somewhat with the current rules, but it is limited to specific maneuvers or requires a lot more movement. Normally if you want to attack and continue moving you use a move through or purchase a martial maneuver with the Fmove element. Move By cannot be combined with other maneuvers and you only get ½ STR for damage. It would also allow ranged characters to avoid exposing themselves by being behind something and only being able to be attacked when they are actually attacking. Just hide behind something and when your phase comes up move out from behind cover, attack and then move back behind the cover. Currently doing this requires using the Snap Shot maneuver which is a full phase action so you cannot move, and you take a penalty to OCV. Even with Snap Shot you are still exposed during the phase you attacked and can duck back on the next segment on the DEX he attacked at. This change would mean the character move a few hexes, attack, and move back behind cover. He takes no penalty to OCV and is only exposed when he is attacking. Those are just two examples off the top of my head of problems it could cause. I am sure that this would probably also cause other issue. So, yea it kind of would break the game, or at least alter the balance of the game and have a lot of unforeseen consequences. At minimum movement and SPD will become more valuable and combat will last a lot longer.

Using TK or adding indirect and range to STR still has some potential problems. The main one is if the character has any unusual attacks they may not be able to use those. For example, if he has a Dim Mak attack built as a drain, or energy attack like some of the character from a video game the shadow would not be able to make those attacks. That is why I suggested Stretching. With stretching any attack the character can make himself the shadow can make. Using Foci might also have problems unless the character has multiple copies or is moving them from shadow to shadow. Stretching is fairly cheap so 20m stretching with Does not Cross Intervening space, Fully Invisible, No Noncombat Stretching, No Velocity Damage and Linked to Images costs 20 points.

It’s been a while and I only played it a couple of times so did not pick up the book. From what I remember they had a scale of sizes and if two different sizes where used you took the one with most of the robots and adjusted the DCV of the others up or down deepening on if they were larger or smaller. So, two robots of the same size used the normal rules. Anything larger or smaller where then adjusted.

The old Robot Warrior rules did not take size modifiers on robots that were the same size. This is basically the same thing

One thing that UV could be useful for is identifying people and objects. A person or object may look slightly different to UV. For a person it could be a birthmark that is not visible to normal sight. A person without UV vision would not be aware of this so would not incorporate that into their disguise. The character with UV vision that notices the birthmark is missing would have a better chance to see through the disguise. The other thing it could be used for is to send messages that others do not notice. Basically you have an ink that is not visible to normal sight but anyone with UV vision can see and read it. This thread got me thinking on how to use UV vision. The more I think about it the less important being able to see in the dark becomes.

Humans cannot see in the UV spectrum so all our UV technology is making it visible to the normal spectrum. If someone has the ability to perceive in the UV spectrum this does not need to be done. How they view things are going to be different. I see no reason they could not use ambient UV light to get information about an object. Instead of glowing in a dark room it would probably show up as a slightly different color that someone with normal human vision could not see. In effect normal humans are color blind to UV colors. According to Wikipedia reflective UV photography is used in medicine, dermatology, botany, criminology and theatrical applications. Reflective UV photography can use strong natural sunlight. A filter is used to block visible and infrared light so only the UV light passes through the lens. That is technology we currently have. Imagine what can be done in the future or by a super scientist like reed Richards.

It will be incredibly expensive you will also need the advantage ranged as well. You will need fully indirect and might need to add the +1 Non-Standard Defense to the autofire if the character has any unusual attacks. On the standard 12D6 attack that comes out to 165 points. That also only covers attacks it does not give the ability to swap places with his shadow.

I am not an expert on how UV light works, so the information I am using is from the internet and using the cheap pet urine detectors. The pet urine detector I have uses a couple of AAA batteries and does not seem very bright. That leads me to believe it is not that high intensity. It is also designed to allow someone without any other equipment or the ability to see in the UV spectrum to see body fluids. Someone with the natural ability to see in the UV spectrum probably can use it to detect what the flashlight does. I am not sure how it would show up but I imagine the color would be different because the UV light is being reflected back to the retina of the character. Since UV light is not detectable by normal sight having a source of UV light would allow you to see, but characters without UV vision would not be able to see the light. Maybe the solution would be to change UV Vision to an active sense for the same cost. That would allow it to be used anywhere but would be visible to other with UV vision. That would give each of the three senses some differences and advantages. IR vision would give the ability to see things that are a different temperature and work anywhere but would not be detectable. Night Vision would allow you to see as you normally do in complete darkness and would also not draw attention to you. UV Vision would work everywhere and allow you to some advantages in detecting certain things but would draw attention to you.

In the games I run we keep SPD down and adjust the SPDS of published characters as well. In our campaigns a 6 or higher is what a full speedster is likely to have. 5 SPD is unusual, so 4 SPD is considered average for a PC. As long as everyone respects this the campaign works fairly well. Once we explain that if the players characters buy to high SPD all of the NPC’s will have their SPD adjusted people are usually ok with it. I do agree that the 8 SPD is better than a 5 with summons or duplicates. I view all of those builds as potently problematic and would be inclined to veto all of them. I don’t really see the need to allow more actions because of the shadow clones. From what the original post stated directing the shadow clone took some effort. Considering the shadows are based on images you can have them appear to move as a zero-phase action. Using any of the other powers is going to require Zed to spend an action anyways. Activating a stretching is a zero-phase action so Zed can simply attack through any of the shadows or his own location anytime he wants. I would simply buy Zed’s SPD to an appropriate level and not worry about the origin of the attack. Allow Zed to attack or teleport to any location as he wants. That will actually give Zed more tactical options. Buying extra SPD and limiting Zed to actions to only specific locations does not gain him anything and pointlessly complicates the character.

I am not a big fan of limited SPD or even supper high SPD’s. Having limitations on SPD often cause a lot of problems in the game. If the limitation is something that is constant like only in Hero ID or through a focus inaccessible focus it might be ok. But if it is anything that can change in or varies in combat it is usually a pain. What happens when you cancel a phase to do something that is affected by the limitation? In this case what happens to the phases your shadow goes in when you cancel to an action you want the character to do? Are the phases the shadows go in lost? If you want one of your shadows to cancel does that mean you lose all phases until the shadow goes? Is it ok to attack all out in phase 12 Cancel your 3 to a defensive action in phase 1 and in phase 2 have your shadow make an all-out attack? If you can do that what is your DCV those phases? As a GM I will veto this type of power because it complicates thing too much and focuses too much of the game on a single player. That is also the reason I really dislike extremely high SPD characters. Having lots of actions in a turn sounds great but it also creates a lot of problems. When a character can effectively act a lot more than any other character, that character hogs the spotlight too much. If the character does not have good defenses and is canceling a lot to defensive actions, it is not so bad. But a character that attacks significantly more often than the rest of the character is hogging the spotlight. This often leads to SPD inflation where all the characters end up buying up their SPD. When that happens, everyone gets punished. High also can also mean your END usage go up and can become a problem. Don’t forget that you have to pay END every phase for a lot of powers. That extra 3 SPD could increase your END per turn significantly if you are moving and attacking on each phase. This means you have to spend more points on REC and END or purchase reduced END on all your powers or you end up becoming exhausted too soon.

@Hugh Neilson My point is that a -2 limitation should mean the power is incredibly restricted. Only to calm down to me is not enough to justify a -2 limitation. I was also responding to a mathematical formula being used to justify a value of a limitation that does not actually limit the power as much as the formula says. Each custom limitation should be evaluated by itself based on how much it limits the power. Using a mathematical formula to get an idea is ok, but you still have to look at how much the limitation restricts the power. I used the examples from the book to illustrate that point. I can see a lot of uses for only to calm down besides stopping enraged and berserks. It could be used on a person who is nervous about doing something allowing them to avoid penalties to certain activities. It could be used to get people to listen to other people when they are trying to explain things the person does not want to hear. It could prevent people from panicking during a fire and exit in a calm and orderly manner. It could prevent a fight before it even got started.

It really depends on the campaign. In a science fiction-based game there are probably a lot of infrared and ultraviolet devices. Having those visions will allow you to see them. For example, Infraredvision would allow you to see an infrared signal. In the real world a lot of devices like TV’s and stereo systems have infrared remote controllers. In a high tech setting those are going to be even more common. Infraredvision also allows you to detect heat so can give more information than sight. A character with infraredvision could be able to determine if an electronic device was on by the fact, it has a higher temperature from the heat of the electronics. In a Fantasy campaign it can help you spot an undead creature due to its lack of body heat. Ultraviolet Light also give more information than visible light. Many substances show up differently under ultraviolet light. Ultravioletvision could allow a character to detect those substances easier. For Example, it would be able to detect urine and other body fluids after they have dried. That is how the pet urine detectors work. It can help in determining fakes and counterfeit money. All night vision does is to allow you to see in the dark.

Nightvision specifically states it can see in total darkness, whereas Ultraviolet Perception states it provides not benefit in the absences of UV light. So, Nightvision will allow you to see in the cave where UV (the book states UV does not work in a cave) does not. Basically, Nightvision allows you to see normally in any normal darkness. UV allows you to see where UV light is present and allows you to see UV light itself.

@Marcus your premise is mistaken and is trying to apply a mathematical formula in a manner it should not. This is backed up by the examples in the rule book. In the 6E V1 P383 it gives examples of the limited power limitation. Only works in Darkness is listed as a -1/2 limitation, Does not work in Darkness is listed as a -1/4 limitation. 6E V1 P382 gives some guidelines on the limited power limitation -1/4 limitation is limited about a fourth of the time, -1/2 is limited about a third of the time, -1 the character is limited about half the time, -1 ½ the character is limited over half the time, and finally -2 the character almost never gets to use the power. The last set is what you should be using not some mathematical formula that ignores the examples in the books.

That is not always the case. What you have to do is to look at how limiting the restriction is and what you can do with it. There are multiple ways you can get a person to do what you want them to. If someone is enraged or berserk, I can use other commands besides clam down to prevent them from attacking. I could simply order them not to attack and if I get a high enough roll, they don’t attack despite being berserk. If I can achieve the result, I want without using that command the restriction of not being able to use that command is less restrictive and therefore is worth less. Often only being able to do, or not being able to something is more restrictive than opposite. Take the situation where there are a hundred cars and 1 of them is pink. Not being able to attack the pink car means I still have 99 targets to choose from. If I can only attack the pink car I have only a single target I can attack. Not being able to attack the pink car hardly limits me at all and should be worth little to no limitation. Only being able to attack pink cars on the other hand incredibly restrictive and should be result in a much higher limitation. The command calm down might not even prevent the character from attacking his target even if it achieves EGO +30. If the enraged character would normally attack the target removing the enraged or berserk, they can still do so. In fact, in some cases, it may even work against the target. When a character is enraged or berserk, they do not always choose the best attack option.

Sentient was probably a bad choice of words. I should have just said independent and left it at that. I envision a shadow clone more as an extension of the character than a separate creature. This is based on the fact the clones can only act by the characters mental orders and cannot act on their own. It also prevents the clones from being mind controlled.

Duplication or Summons is not a good fit because the shadows do not seem to be independent sentient creatures; they seem to be more of an extension of the character. Basically, they allow the character to make his normal attacks from several different locations. The original poster also stated he wants to play a Ninja. Most Ninja use martial arts and some weapons to attack. Stretching allows you to do attack from different locations. Start with Images to sight with a -5 to perception roll with the limitations only to create shadows duplicates, Limited Range, Physical Manifestation and Unified for 9 points. Add 15M Stretching with the advantages Fully Invisible and Does Not Cross Intervening Space and the limitations No Velocity Damage and No Noncombat Stretching, Unified Power, Linked to Images for 17 points. Add 15M teleport with Position shift, No Noncombat movement, Unified Power and linked to images for 10 points. For 36 points the character can create one or more shadow duplicates within 15M and attack through them He can also use teleport to swap places with his duplicates.

If it is for your own use then you can probably create anything you want including things under a copy write or trademark. You can probably also share them with your friends as long as you are not charging for them or otherwise profiting from them. Publishing them in a book or on a for profit website is probably not allowed. Hero Games is a company that sells related material so cannot do this. Not sure if you could publish them here.

This seems more like a suite of powers instead of a single power. I would probably start with images as the base power and link abilities to the image powers. Teleport will allow you to swap places with the shadows. Stretching with the advantages Does Not Cross Intervening Space and Invisible power effects will allow you to attack through the shadows. Using Indirect works too, but you may need to buy ranged on some powers. This will increase the active cost of all your powers which could be a problem is you have any active point campaign limitations. You would not be able to attack more times than you can without using the shadows except if you used the multiple attack maneuver. In all honesty this is probably better for the game. Allowing a character to attack more often than their SPD allows with no drawbacks is a bad idea.