LoneWolf

You are probably using the rules for multiform from 4th edition or earlier. In 5th edition only one form pays for the multiform.

Hugh is right on this. I have written up a couple of characters using multiform that were anything but underpowered. Write up the “main form” with the multiform and non-combat skills and abilities. Then write up multiple highly specialized combat or exploration forms. If you are not careful you end up with a character who can dominate the campaign. When you are out of combat your “main character” is a better detective than the detective of the group, and at the same time has more scientific knowledge that the scientist. In combat your brick from is the strongest in the group, your speedster form is the fastest in the group. You can literally be everything that is needed. As a GM any character with more than two form is going to get a very close look to make sure they are not going to be overpowered.

Walking on rice paper is usually about leaving traces, and as Ninja-Bear said is traditionally bought as Gliding. Its main purpose is to avoid leaving tracks. Many of the powers in martial art movies are bought as powers instead of skills. HS Martial Arts has multiple sections on these types of powers. The special effect of these powers is that the character is so good at the skill they can do things that other cannot. In a lot of cases they take the power requires a skill roll. There are usually multiple ways to buy the ability depending on how you want it to work. Super Stealth could be bought as invisibility or invisible to hearing on your running.

It would probably be the body and defense of the wall, because that is what characters interact with on a wall. If the wall is defined as a barrier, use that. If it is part of a base use the characteristics of the base. That is why I said it is complicated and confusing. Rather than figure that out it is a lot easier to find a better way to do it.

Technically you would need to affects real world. Doing it this way will be complicated, confusing and expensive. There are a lot of ways that are easier and cheaper to do. It also depends on what you want to stop. Since Clinging uses ground movement to move up the wall you could target that with Change Environment. -1m or movement is only 1 point. 30 points would get you a -30 to ground movement which is probably enough to stop anyone from climbing. This would not stop someone from clinging in place, but would prevent the target from moving on the wall. If I were GM and the character bought enough movement to stop any upward movement I would probably allow it to stop someone from clinging in place. This also works well if you just want to make the wall difficult to climb. Instead of a suppress clinging you could use dispel clinging. Put it in a damage shield and it affects anyone touching the wall. Dispel is fairly cheap and 10d6 would only cost 30 points before the damage shield.

If the room is just an empty room you probably don’t need to buy it as a base. If the players would need to spend points on it if it was in the normal world, they should have to do so for this. If the players don’t have to pay points for it if it was in the normal world, they should not have to do so for this. EDM to reach the room is often used for this type of things. I have a wizard that has a spell that leads to his own private demi-plane.

The uses the OP is talking about are from the APG. The rules are in 6E2 page 287.

I may have missed something, but I have not seen anything that gave any indication that the intention was that all healing caused knockback. I did a quick search and could not find anything from the OP stating that this is how they wanted their world to work. I did see in the original post where they wanted to build a spell that healed their allies and knocked back undead. If they do want this to become a standard feature of their world then using a disadvantage is the right way to go. If on the other hand, they are just looking for this particular spell to function that way a disadvantage is the wrong way to do it.

Not all healing is the result of divine power/positive energy. That is the problem with using it as a disadvantage. Why are zombies knocked back by someone who is using micro TK to reknit the targets flesh together, or an alchemical concoction? What about a necromancer that heals by necromantic granting the target powers similar to undead?

Merry Christmas Everyone!

Making spells is a great way to learn the system. I think I speak for everyone on the forums when I say that we will always be ready to lend a hand in helping to create anything someone wants to. Having prewritten spells is always helpful. I have often stolen an idea from many different sources. For me I still want the ability to create my own or to modify them so the fit my ideas. One bit of advice I would give anyone looking to run Fantasy Hero is to sit down and look the rules over and modify them to fit your setting. One thing I do is to establish some classes of minds. The ones I use are Animal, Mortal, Immortal, Construct, and Undead. Animal is pretty much unchanged. Mortal is similar to human, Immortal are Angels, Demons, Dragons etc., Construct are golems and Undead should not need any explanation.

To me the big draw of the Hero System is that I can create the character I want. I would have very little interest in playing a Fantasy Hero game where the GM writes up all the spells. For me the character creation process is half the fun.

@Doc Democracy I can understand your view, but I think in some ways hiding the details from your players can be contributing to their perceived view. By hiding the build you reinforce their view the system is too complicated for them to understand. By doing everything for them you take away the opportunity for them to learn. I don’t know your players so cannot know the situation, but it seems to me if they were able to build characters on their own they may see the system as more user friendly. @Hugh Neilson I suggested using the standard effect on the blast and knock back in an earlier post. The other advantage is that by separating the healing from the knockback you can adjust either one with little impact on the other. If you don’t need as much healing, you can reduce it without affecting the KB, if you want more KB, you can increase that by adding more dice to the blast.

When I build this power as two separate powers, I am usually finding it cost less points because I don’t need some of the advantages on the healing and can put more limitations on the blast. Also, as two separate powers I can also use the unified power limitation on both of them. The end result works the same pretty much the same. Technically it does require two separate rolls, but a GM can easily hand wave that and allow it to use the same roll. From the players standpoint they roll 4d6 and heal their allies and then roll to knock back any undead in the area. How is it any less cool for the player when built as two powers. To me powers should avoid bending the rules as much as possible. I understand that sometimes the GM may need to allow some flexibility to the rules, but that should be a last resort. The reason for this is once you start doing that too often the players start to expect it, and this can cause problems. Also doing this makes it easier when you come back to a character years later and wonder how the hell this power work. I have to agree with Doc on not getting upset, I for one am enjoying the discussion.

In most Fantasy Hero games, I have played in undead usually show up at some point. If you expand it out to demons, then it would be almost always. They may not show up all the time, but they are usually present. I would probably put the value of only vs Undead at about -1. Knockback only would also be about a -1. If undead are rare than simply increase the value of the limitation. I have even seen a fair number of champions games where undead show up. The fact that healing does body works so poorly is another reason to not use this method. The chances of doing KB on 2d6 are so small that to me it is just wasting time. A player should pay for their abilities, but the abilities should have a reasonable chance of working. This method does not and requires extensive GM intervention for it to be effective. If I were to allow it I would either count the BODY as if it were a normal attack and subtract 2d6 or consider it to be killing damage and subtract 3d6. In either case 2d6 healing is not going to do anything. All this is going to do is to slow down the game while the player rolls for something that is unlikely to happen.

If you are buying the KB as a blast in a combined power, you should get all the limitations you would if you bought it as a separate power. The problem comes when you want to add does BODY to healing. First of all, how do you count the BODY? Do you count the BODY as if the healing were a blast, or since it is Heal body do you count the total of the amount rolled? Does healing count as a normal attack and use 2d6 for KB, or is it considered killing damage and rolls 3d6? This is the best reason to avoid adding does BODY to healing. Second is the fact that you affect different targets with different effects. To do this you should be using a partially limited power where you apply limitations to the advantages. As the GM you can of course make these decisions but if the character is taken to another game the player is going to have to go through the whole process with the new GM. If I were the GM and a player came to me with a power like this, I would not allow it. The cost of adding KB to the healing is really not that much. Depending on the limitations put on the power it will probably add around 6-8 real points for a 4d6 double KB blast. If this is a spell you might want to consider adding a focus (holy symbol) and extra time. This is a clean easily understood way that will be acceptable in almost any game without question. The ability to knock down all characters in a 4m radius is actually very useful, especially when healing the party. This is something the player should expect to pay for.

Doing it as two powers is fairly simple and easy to do. It is two separate effects of the same power, so using two powers make sense.

The last few posts are a big reason to do it as a compound power. This is starting to get more complicated and confusing that two powers.

From a game mechanics point TK would work, but as suspect it will be expensive. A lot of undead have decent STR and the undead would get opposed STR rolls to resist. TK is also fairly expensive which is going to make this cost even more. What would be helpful would be if you described what you see happening when the spell is cast without using any game terms. Include how far the undead are moved and can they resist being moved. There are several ways I can see this being built depending on the answer.

I am wondering if you really need 4d6 Healing. On the average 4d6 Healing will heal 14 BODY. That is a lot of damage. If you reduce the power to 2d6 healing that is still healing 7 BODY. Unless this spell is meant to bring people who are down back to full that should be enough. If you only want to knock the undead down Change Environment may be a better way to go. Reducing the healing and using change environment cuts the cost down to a more reasonable level. Here is what I came up with. 2d6 Heal BODY, +1/2 4M selective radius, -1/2 Requires Roll, -1/2 Gestures (both hands), -1/4 Incantations, -1/4 Not vs Undead. Change Environment -4 DEX roll, +1/4 4m Radius, -1/2 Instant, -1 Only vs Undead, -1/2 Requires Roll, -1/2 Gestures (both hands), -1/4 Incantations, -1/2 Linked to Healing. That puts the active cost to 45 and the real cost to 15. How it would work would be the character cast the spell and all characters within 4M of the character except undead are healed for 2d6 BODY. All undead within 4m of the character have to make a DEX roll at -4 or be knocked down. The penalty to the roll is -4 and it cost 4 END. Bringing up the healing to 4d6 will increase the active cost to 75 and the real cost to 27 and use 7 END.

The problem with adding a complication to undead is that would mean that all healing causes them to take KB. Just because this characters healing is based on something similar to positive energy does not mean all healing has the same special effect. That type of thing is what I was talking about when I said the Hero System is not D&D or Pathfinder. The way I would build this is to use a compound power with the healing as one power. For the KB effect use a 4d6 blast (standard effect), +1/2 double KB, +1/4 for 4m Radius, and put a -2 limitation on it only for KB vs undead, plus any other appropriate limitations for a spell. See if the GM will allow you to use the standard effect on both the blast and KB roll. If so this will mean each normal sized undead is knocked back 4M. Since the KB only affects undead you don’t need selective on the area of effect. No Damage should be worth at least a -1 limitation, and Only vs Undead is probably worth the same. You could also add ½ or even 0 END without it costing too much. The healing part on the other hand is probably going to be a lot more expensive.

My comment about Hero System not being D&D or Pathfinder was more about the system is very different from those systems and does not make assumption like they do. Those systems operate very differently than Hero System and often people used to them often make assumptions as to how things should be done. Direct conversions are usually more trouble than they are worth and often end up disappointing the player. Things that are consider low powered in other game are often incredibly expensive in Hero, and just as often the reverse is true. It is usually best to just look at the special effect of the power and ignore all the game mechanics of the other system.

Don’t forget that you roll an extra dice to determine KB when using killing damage. That is going to make killing damage less effective in doing KB. If you look at @Sketchpads suggestion it includes double KB. That means on the average the attack will do 2m of KB. Depending on how far you want them knocked back you may need to increase the dice of the blast. If you want to just have the undead fall Change Environment might work. It would mean the undead need to make a DEX roll to remain standing. The book has an example of an ice sheet under change environment as an example. This would just be a different special effect. What it really comes down to is what is the special effect of the power and how do you want it to work. There is no advantage that makes healing do damage, if you want that you have to buy it as a combined power. Hero System is not D&D or Pathfinder.

This can be summed up as “having a higher DEX does not mean you act first; it means you get to choose when you act”.

Healing is not an attack power. Does Knockback only works on attack powers. If you don’t want the attack to do damage, put a limitation on the blast Knockback only. If it did work, you would have to heal the undead to knock them back. With the blast being a separate power, you don't have to knock the people you heal back.