rjcurrie

Re: Stray "critical hit" thought

To be honest, I treat a three just like any other hit -- and an 18 like any other miss, but then I'll admit I'm not much of a rule tinkerer.

Re: Paying points for Falling damage

Haha. Yes, lots of opinions the like of which I fully expected! And in all seriousness, I'm not surprised. This really is a ridiculous suggestion!!

 

However, there's a wider point at stake here. In a supers game, why should the benefits of equipment cost points, but environmental benefits be free? For example, if we were really committed to balancing points, then no attack should do knockback without specifically paying for a linked attack. Of course, we're not this committed, because we acknowledge that points are, at best, a fairly rough form of balance (hence stop signs).

Well, of course, the benefits of equipment only cost point if the character is using them as a regular part of his schtick. If you pick up Dr. Cold's freeze ray and use it to freeze the villain in his tracks then it doesn't cost points, it's just a tactic. But if you decide that you want to carry the freeze ray around with you and use it as a normal part of your crimefighting equipment, then you pay the points.

As to the original question, perhaps you should at least threaten to charge points for the falling damage if the player is using it that frequently (say, in every fight or every second fight). Or at the very least, something should be done to make the player be more creative in his tactics. After all, comics or TV shows would be very boring if every fight scene looked the same.

Rod

Re: The Trophy Room

I'm not sure I'd make the players pay for anything stored in the trophy room unless it was being used on a regular basis. The occasional "Wow, you know, we could use Dr. Destroyer's Dimensional Disintegrator to ..." use of the object is pretty well balanced by the fact that Dr. Destroyer (or some other villain) may occasionally try to steal it back or simply trash your base for taking his toy.

Re: HERO system observations and beefs

To throw my opinion into the pot' date=' I have only one problem with the Hero game. The last time I played Champions was WAY back in 2nd edition, I picked up the 5th edition book and the Champions book, and was overwelmed by the cascade of options available. I have not goten the revised book yet, but the one thing I have trouble with is how best to organize the character creation options, it seems to me that there is no real 'here is how to create a character'. Maybe for those who play frequently it is easier and I am a fan of the game just because it has so much to offer. but I find myself daunted in the detail of the game.[/quote']

 

Fifth Edition Revised does contain some improvements in this area: more guidance in character creation as well as several sample characters for a variety genres. The extra character creation guidance is also available in Sidekick ($10 for the book, $7 for the PDF).

Re: HERO system observations and beefs

There's an entire market of gamers out there waiting to be sold to. These are the people who became gamers after 1995 and Hero Games' fall. The gamers who have been playing for over 10 years already have a sense of what Hero is. They probably played it in the past and decided they did or didn't liked it. You are not going to change their minds now, but many of the gamers within the last 10 years have no real knowledge of what Hero is. They began gaming when there was no new Hero product except for the Hero Plus pdf material, which only the old-timers and diehards purchased. This is really your target audience. This is the group of gamers you need to pull into the game system.

 

How do you pull them in? Do you pull them in by showing them a 600 page book and telling them they can do anything with the game once they read and understand those 600 pages? Does anyone here actually believe that learning a game system is more fun than experiencing a genre or gaming environment? How many people here would honestly have began playing the game if that is how they would have been forced to do it?

 

Most gamers don't want to play game systems they want to play genres. They want to play fantasy, and science fiction, and comic books. There's nothing wrong with being a toolkit game system but people still want to play game genres. Many Hero players are tinkerers but we began as genrists: we began playing due to Champions or Fantasy Hero or Justice Inc, etc. There's nothing in the current Hero line which caters to genrists, and no matter how good the Hero System might be most people aren't going to shell out $50.00 for a toolkit without having a decent understanding of how to use it before hand.

 

And yes I know you can buy Sidekick for $10.00 but again, the trill of gaming is not in learning the rules. It's in playing the environment. Do you think Exalted is hot because of the rules system? Rifts? Vampire? Nope. It's the genre which grabs people and pulls them in.

That may be true for some people, but I know people who were using Champions for non-superhero games even before Espionage (the first of the heroic level games) came out. And people who used Danger International for Science Fiction games before Star Hero came out. Or people who used Justice Inc. for Victiorian era games. And you just have to look at rpg.net (hardly a bastion of lovers of generic games) to see dozens of people using games for genres other than the ones that they were written for.

And I agree that people are unlikely to just pick up the Hero core book on a whim. However, poeple who have read reviews of the book, read people relating their experience using Hero for interesting games, people who have tried Hero games at conventions, or people who have been shown Hero by the friends are all possible buyers.

Re: Herogames: The Sportscar Product

Well' date=' this is a buiness and I guess majority rules.[/quote']

 

Well, technically, whatever the owners of Hero Games decide to do rules.

Re: Idea: Sidekick Deluxe

Given that the whole purpose of Sidekick is to let people try out Hero for a low cost, this seems to be a completely contradictory idea.

Re: HERO system observations and beefs

I dunno' date=' having a discussion board seems to imply that they do want suggestions. Of course, the usefulness of a board when the same suggestions start being shouted over and over again by the same people starts shrinking, but that's another matter.[/quote']

 

Yeah, you're probably right on the discussion board thing. I'll concede that point.

Re: HERO system observations and beefs

Let me ask you something: when you see something or someone you care about not doing well, do you offer suggestions, or do you just sit on your hands?

 

"There are many, many people who are happy with the current approach. "

 

Yes, so many, in fact, that the company has swallowed its pride and addressed the fact that these 'many, many' people are essentially not enough to keep the company afloat in its current iteration.

 

Do you work for WOTC, that you dont see this as a problem that could use some good ideas to get out of?

 

It's their company, why do you care if they do--or dont--take any of these suggestions?

Actually, I will probably ask if they want if they want suggestions on what they might do. If they say no, then I'll sit on my hands.

As for the company swallowing its pride, they ask a percentage of their fan base (that is, those on the boards -- my guess would be less than 25% of Hero fans) to consider buying direct to put a few more dollars in their coffers. This is hardly the equivalent of saying the company can't stay afloat in its current form.

No, I don't work for WOTC. And if Hero wanted ideas, they'd ask for them. They've shown no shyness about asking for feedback before.

Re: Scavenging game materials

Also from the Herogames website

This isn't going to be terribly useful to the original poster, because it is mainly a list of abbreviations used to refer to various Hero products and to supplement the glossary in the rule book.

Re: Scavenging game materials

By initials I mean those who are used in powers, like IIF, OAF, HKA, RKA etc. (those I mention I already know, but I ran into some others).

 

And I saw the list on your signature before.

Part of the problem is that a full list of these is included in the rule book, and I'm not how much of a copyright infringement it would be to produce such a list here. If you asked about a few speciific ones, we can answer them for you safely without risking reproducing too large a chunk of the rule book.

Re: HERO system observations and beefs

"Moving into an untried area is a big risk..."

 

Huh? Addressing criticisms of the game by doing what every successful game company does (selling the WOW factor and easing players into a 600 page rule book) is moving into an untried area? You mean the untried area that got HERO popular in the first place vis a vis Champions?

 

Criticisms by a few. There are many, many people who are happy with the current approach.

Yes, Champions was a bit of a risk when it was brought out. But it was a risk taken by a couple of guys who were doing it part time and not by people who have a significant amount of money invested in IP and have full-time employees that they need to pay. It was also at a time when customers were more receptive to things like new systems. But the "all-in-one" idea is a risk because there is no guarantee that such an approach would work and could

easily fail to meet the almost guaranteed sales level of the standard Hero book that would have taken that publishing slot. As a result, it could mean less money for Hero to produce other books and slow down their whole cash flow, most likely leading to the downsizing and possibly the end of the company.

Re: HERO system observations and beefs

Third' date=' how do you know any of the approaches on these boards were actually considered? Why do you consider the very people who buy and support HERO "pests"? No one shuts down a great business because others make suggestions. Some businesses even actively solicit their customers' viewpoints.[/quote']

 

Well, I don't know, for sure, which is why I said "likely". But many of the suggestions have been fairly obvious and, thus, likely to have been considered. And as I've said elsewhere, I feel that someone wants suggestions on things like this, they'll solict them just as Hero has done on many subjects. However, this is not an area where they have actively done so, to the best of my recollection.

 

Oh, and when I used the word "pests", I was referring to people trying to tell me how to run my hypothetical company. I was not referring to all customers of that company or to all Hero customers.

 

Companies that provide a good or service without regard to customers' wants/needs have a name: "Bankrupt" aka "Out of Business."

 

Yes, but is it worth running a company that is producing products that aren't what you want to do? If so, then the gaming industry is a poor place to do it. They'd be further ahead to go into a dozen of other fields which are more profitable. But both Darren and Steve prefer to work with something they have passion for.

 

Let me ask you something, when you play a game, are you constantly telling the GM how he should be running the campaign?

Re: HERO system observations and beefs

In my life I have know many people who have worked in a business for years who quit their jobs to start their own company only to fail miserably. The fact that you have experience at one aspect of an industry doesn't mean you have that experience at all the aspects of a company which need to be dealt with on a daily basis.

True, but did you tell those people how they should run their companies?

And yes, you're right. But the smart people in any project or company pay attention to what is being done by others and can see how those jobs are being done and what works and what doesn't. Unfortunately, occasionally, some people who haven't paid attention also try to start their own companies.

Steve Long is a good writer but that doesn't necessarily make him a good line developer, editor, or make him aware of where the pulse of the industry is at; and that's not meant as an insult to Steve or anyone else at DoJ. Having a passion to do something is only the first step of a business.

True, but Steve Long is also a veteran of the gaming industry who has worked with many companies, large and small, and has friends at many levels in other gaming companies. He and Darren talk to people from other companies about the industry and where it's going. They see first hand at conventions and such what is selling and what is not. From my talks with them, I think that they have a better idea of the industry's pulse than most of the posters on this board, who are often basing their ideas on themselves and the five or six other games they know.

In a down-turn all business are left with the same three options: Try to outlast the storm, pack up and go home, or find the itch which isn't being scratched. Most of my suggestions are of the third category.

But you're making the assumption that Hero wants to move into that third category. I haven't seen any indication that they do, but I could be wrong. Right now, when they sell a book, they have a pretty good idea of what the minimum sales will be on that book and thus the minimum return on their money. Moving into an untried area is a big risk and unless you have the funds to safely gamble, then you're gambling your whole company and, effectively, the jobs of your employees.

I feel the wheels of change move slowly at DoJ though. Several months ago I suggested DoJ produce pdf previews with the table on contents and introductory chapter for their books. A couple of weeks ago Steve said the company would be doing that with upcoming books. So change, no matter how slow, can occur if the fans speak loudly enough to catch the attention of DoJ.

Well, you can pat yourself on the back for the idea if you want, but I have little doubt that it had already occurred to Steve and company before you posted it. It's a rather obvious one done by many companies that produce books or PDF documents in many fields. Obviously, until the shift to the emphasis on the online store, they did not feel it was worth the effort.

But, as I said before, it's their company and their right to do what they want with it.

Re: HERO system observations and beefs

(heavy snippage)

It's not like they have to read these threads. I did recommend this one to Steve because I thought it was one of the best of these sorts of threads, at least at about page 4 or 5. But for the most part I'm sure these threads rise and fall without DOJers getting any compulsion to look aside from their own level of interest, and if they're interested I'd imagine it's because they're interested in the feedback, and if they're not it's probably where they glanced at went, "never mind, been there," and moved on.

Well, there's a third possibility: "What are those zanies on the boards going on about now?" Like watching a car crash.

I guess part of it is my general assumption that if someone wants help or feedback, they'll ask for it. Just like Darren, Steve, and Allen do when they post "What do you want to see ..." threads for upcoming books or when Steve posted the poll for the 2006 GenCon book. But I don't remember seeing any posts from the Hero gang about "what can we do to increase our market profile?"

And, of course, if you don't think the Hero gang reads threads like this, what is the point of posting them?

Re: HERO system observations and beefs

You know, it really doesn't matter what any of us think. Hero Games belongs to Darren Watts, Steve Long, and the rest of DOJ. It's their company and they can do what they want it with it. Of course, if we don't like what they do, then we don't have to buy it.

With that being said, I am pretty sure that Darren and Steve have a better idea than any of us as to what may or may not work in the role-playing game industry. They also have a better idea of what Hero Games can afford to risk gambling on a different approach. You also have to remember that they have access not only to their own experiences in the industry but to the experiences of other industry professionals who they talk to regularly. In some ways, large parts of threads like this come off as an insult to the Darren and Steve, as they appear to be saying "you don't know what you're doing -- let me tell you the right way to run your company". I really doubt that there has been anything suggested in this thread that the Hero gang has already considered.

I've got to admit if I owned a company and people kept telling me how I shoud be running it, I'd be as likely to shut it down to be rid of the pests as I would to listen to them keep telling me things that I have likely already thought about and rejected.

Re: Art for my Friends of Justice Pulp Hero Convention Game

For those who've asked about sepia. Here's the set again with a touch of sepia courtesy of Paint Shop Pro's "Aged Newspaper" effect.

Rod

Re: Art for my Friends of Justice Pulp Hero Convention Game

I'd go with number 3 and add a sepia tone to it. By the way' date=' is that Doc Justice's gentleman's gentleman/bodyguard?[/quote']\

 

Yeah, I'll probably add a sepia tone to the versions I put on the web site. Whether or not I do that for the printed versions depends on my access to a color printer among other things.

 

 

And yes, that's Sebastien Doyle, former member of His Majesty's Secret Service and Doc Justice's gentleman's gentlmenan/bodyguard.

Re: HERO System question

If you're giving out a lot of magic items in your game -- then probably the good old D&D methods of divying up treasure (and ignoring the points) works just as well in Fantasy Hero, because there is a lot of stuff out there and it balances out in the end -- or at least as well as in D&D.

As for characters paying twice -- one can argue that the d20 method results in characters being rewarded twice for the same actions -- once in XP and once in treasure. Using a Hero method where you pay character points for all magic items, get rewarded once in XP. Some of that XP then goes to pay for the new abilities you gained through the items you've acquired, but it's still only a single reward. So, it's not so much that characters are paying twice for their gains in Hero, but that they are being rewarded twice in d20.

Rod

Re: Art for my Friends of Justice Pulp Hero Convention Game

I'd say 3 or 4.

That'd be the last one on the top row and the first one on the bottom row?

Rod

Kerry Connell who did the art for my SuperSquad America Champions convention game has started to do some art for my Friends of Justice Pulp Hero convention game. He has sent me the first character picture with six different looks. I know my favorite. Which one do you folks prefer?

Re: HERO system observations and beefs

I guess I am in the minority. I love the toolkit nature of Hero and if anything, I'd like to see that expanded on. I don't really need setting. I can come up with setting and most published setting bore me to tears anyway. I love books like Star and Fantasy Hero though. Instead of precanned setting I get the tools to create as many different games as I feel the need too.

 

That being said. I did enjoy Terran Empire and Turkanian Age. And another Hero setting might be nice to look at it, but I wouldn't want it to eslipse the genre books.

I'm another one in that minority with you, Nexus. I love the discussion of genres and things to consider much more than I like specific write-ups. I create my own worlds, so in general, books full of such write-ups (such as CKC) are pretty much only good as a possible source of ideas -- much like any book of write-ups for any system. I will say, however, that USPD is an exception to this. It covers so many powers and provides so many ideas on how to express concepts in Hero terms that I do find it very useful.

And as for 5e reading and looking like a textbook, I think that's a good thing. I think the plain black cover with the Hero logo stands out far more than most other gaming books which just tend to blend together on the shelves. And I've always felt that the writing in a game's rulebook should be much closer to technical writing than to fiction writing. I don't want a pile of fluffy flavor text, but instead clear, detailed descriptions of the rules. It's a reference book not something that's necessarily meant to be read cover-to-cover in one sitting.

Re: The Brat Pack

I'm not sure I'd use "parody" to describe it. "Satire" is probably more accurate. At least to me, parody tends to be lighter and more in a "poking fun" vein, while satire tends to be darker and more serious.

Rick Veitch was the writer/artist for Brat Pack and Maximortal (which I never read -- in fact, I'm not even sure if I read all of Brat Pack).

Re: SuperSquad America ... in color

Incidentally, I'm hoping to get an update to the SuperSquad America web site done later this week.

Rod

Re: Who is... COUNT INFINITY?

My take on Count Infinity would be something like this.

Medieval count makes a wish with a demon, gypsy, or some other mystical source that he "wants to live forever and have the ability to visit any time or place instantly". Of course, wish granters being what they are, they don't quite give the count what he wants. Instead, they turn his castle in a "nexus of worlds". Essentially, he came open up doors in his castle to any time or place; and he will live forever, providing he himself never leave the castle, if he does so, he will die.

While at first, he is annoyed with this resolution of his wish, he soon decides to make the best of things and begins to create a network of contacts in various times and places and becomes a supplier of goods and services from one location to another as well as providing access to these locations to those who want to travel there.

This version of Count Infinity could be a good guy. Perhaps he creates a group of troubleshooters from throughout the multiverse who could be sent out to solve problems anywhere in the multiverse that needs them.

He could be neutral. He'll sell his services to anyone who'll pay his price.

He could be a criminal mastermind with his finger in any number of endeavors througout time and space. He has massive resources to draw upon even if he himself can never leave his castle.

In any event, he would most likely be quite eccentric as a result of living in one building for hundreds of years. Perhaps he has little concern with individual human lives as he has seen so many of them simply come and go over his lifetime -- maybe he's seeking an immortal mate with whom he can share his life.

Just a few ideas off the top of my head,

Rod

PS: I am annoyed at myself, though, for missing the math connection when I first read the name. As a former math major and someone who has written too many puns in his life, I should have seen it.