zornwil

Re: Re: Re: Re: My own thoughts on Nightcrawler But I think the point of this thread is overtly religious chaacters. The Golden Age didn't produce much, if any, in the way of that. PM was in a religious hospital (or something similar) and "saw the light", but as you say it was presumed that people should do so then. It's not like he went out afterwards and said, "I'm going to do the Lord's work" and we saw that as a theme in the comic. Instead he became "a hero", doing "good".

Jewish super-hero who's been around a bit now and again, I don't think he's been taken up by a writer in like 10 years though. Very religiously oriented story and his powers are based on some Jewish religious traits. I just wondered if you'd read him and what you'd thought given your comments. Another one that comes to mind was Ostrander's version of Spectre, which dealt with the theological issues ignored in prior Spectre incarnations. Generally pretty good work.

I dunno, I thnk it would require a LOT of study AND playtesting, but I'd think it'd be more like: - apply MP (and EC and VPP) as actual limitations (or in the case of VPPs advantages) on the slots (or in the case of VPP control costs) rather than having these applied as before-the-fact dividers/multipliers - given that, my guesstimate for ECs would be -1/2 (again, if we're using the NND standard), MP flexis -3, MP ultras -6, and VPP control costs +3/4 or +1.

Well, what I think is broken, as revealed by these exchanges, is the lack of a real standard to judge ECs by. I'm less concerned with how flexible published characters are - in fact published characters often break the rules in some way or are more liberal in interpretation than many GMs. So I would argue that the inclusion of the "NND standard" be necessary to the EC framework. That is where Gary's fundamental problem gets resolved and doesn't break any campaigns. I also think that obviates the need to exclude 0 END powers (though I would not particularly object if that remains the rule, I just house-rule that out) and I even think it defines the SFX linkage well enough to not have to state drain-one-drain-all. Now, on a tangent, I think the EXECUTION (not the rule) for NNDs is broken when you review published characters. I do not agree that "having a force field" is adequate to an NND unless it's better qualified to mean that this "force field" would be achievable by an ordinary human (not necessarily without some cleverness and preparation though).

Yes, the fundamental misunderstanding appears to be around what people consider a "valid EC." I agree the book is quite liberal on the matter, or at least it is when viewed through many supplements. However, it sounds like actual usage runs from strict enough to qualify for -1 to loose enough to not qualify for any limitation. I would still be somewhat liberal because I believe, unlike you, that the other constructs (MP and VPP) grant "free" points as a concept award, but we don't strictly need to go there in order to agree on the issue at hand and valid approaches.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I will freely admit to being pretty free with ECs (well, as free as the books, which are pretty free). I think using the NND standard as the test using a fractional method of applying the discount where it's not up to the NND standard will give me the proper focus to at least improve how I'm allowing these. Of course this whole debate hasn't even talked about whether ECs, even liberally applied, have had any impact on the fun we have in the game. It's a personal question. All I can say is that they haven't for me and they don't seem to have for the vast majority.

I don't know why you're throwing MPs into this one. Anyway, whether it's too cheap depends on how Lariat and the GM will play it out. You cannot divorce that from the equation however much you want to - as you know, the gameplay of a character is separate from what you see on paper. I think Hugh set the correct standard for what should be a canonical EC: it should pass the same test as an NND to be justified. So if Lariat girl's EC powers can be restrained by a clever but normal guy with access to Home Depot and some prep time, the cost break is not too cheap. However, if Lariat girl can only be restrained by an appropriately prepared super-character, I'd go with the discount on each EC slot as being equal to 1/4 of the Control Cost. So are we in agreement by example? (EDIT - changed "Lariat girl" to "Lariat girl's EC powers" above).

Irrelevant. My point was simply that you can't say that both frameworks don't reduce cost by a division and THEN apply another division. MP slots (like EC) are not built on "-4" limitation or "-9" limitation.

Not quite, at least not if you're comparing to an MP. The MP is divided once by 5 or 10, and then a -1 halves that AGAIN, not makes the divisor 6 or 11 (though as you bring it up it's not such a bad idea).

Probably. At the very least I think we're getting a handle on where Gary's unhappy with ECs and where you're happy with them - it seems to be about the ease of "dispelling" (not in the game power mechanical term) the EC and having that on order with NNDs, a fairly brilliant point Hugh and one which I think ought to be considered in future editions of HERO, regardless of whether a finer cost break mechanism is ever deemed necessary. I don't believe any current or prior edition of HERO was successful in placing it in a game-consistent context as you have, you deserve a lot of credit for that.

If you're saying (but I don't think you are) an actual expenditure of 220 real points, I probably would as the player is putting most of their character into this one construct, and of course this assumes he and I are clear as to the rationale and okay with the consequences, EXCEPT for the continuous part. I'd "tamper" with that in all likelihood - unless the utility of those powers were appropriately limited otherwise. So it's a yes/no answer, not as such. If it's 220 Active Points and there's other lims and such going on, I'm sure there'd be substantial revisions although I might end up with the spirit of what the character wanted. Regarding 0 END powers in an EC, nearly all the time I do although I've been blessed with players who reel themselves in to some degree (some less than others, but on the whole I don't have to really watchdog it too often). However, as evidenced by a couple separate messages, I see merit to estabilshing a more rigorous form of control/restraint in the EC discounts. For me, the system that i proposed (which is based on yours and Hugh's thread so I don't take direct credit) will fix any cost imbalances in my games that I may not have been attentive to before, although I may not go there with current games, waiting isntead to apply it to future games. The actual real-world implementation I'm not sure of yet, in other words.

GASP - we might be agreeing! EDIT - and that also means Hugh's contention regarding how easy it is to deal with an EC is also where we'd agree the current EC "works" on a points-balanced basis - I think.

Q: Herr Dirty-Meister, I hear we are facing that accursed new super-group run by Mr. Clean - do you think we will prevail? A: That's how I knew I won the argument.

Hey, btw, Treb, what did you think of Ragman?

As you descibed it - whcih is accurate in and of itself - it sounds like Nightcrawler's a nutcase, but I didn't feel that way from the movie. The way I felt from the movie portrayal, he's so alien in his mutation and that mutation dictates his reality be so different that self-mutilation (while by no means, as you say, espoused by Catholicism) seems like "merely" a decorative add-on, nothing more than what would be a tattoo to you or I. From the movie I felt he was rationale, devout, and troubled all at once, but not dysfunctional. HIs self-etchings were beautiful even as they were scars. Bear in mind I never read anything of Nightcrawler in the comics.

One thing I will admit, and from ECs I've seen I suspect is common to others, is I do not apply the same standard to EC as to NND. I apply the standard you indicate above to NNDs; essentially, a clever but normal person ought to be able to counter the attack with a little preparation or McGuyveresque opportunity. But with ECs the element needn't have such a common counte, and I think most people do this. However, this raises what may be a fundamental issue with mine and others' implementations of EC. (BTW, it should be noted that it seems many people don't create NNDs this way, though, and even the book examples, as you noted in another message re ECs Hugh, often have rather hard-to-obtain defenses for NND attacks, and I do NOT agree with that). An idea would be to take the current EC framework and apply a "commonality" rule. ECs which could be easily countered per the "normal person" measure (i.e., "very common counter to elemental") get the current normal application of discount - the control cost in its entirety. ECs which are less common but not completely obtainable by regular people (and presumably fairly easily obtainable by secret organizations and smart-guy super-villains, that sort of level) get 1/2 (or 3/4 if you prefer) of the control cost discount. So if I have a 25 point control cost, my discount on each slot is 12 (if 1/2) or 19 (if 3/4) points. ECs that are uncommon to counter get 1/4 (or 1/2 if you prefer) of the control cost discount. That might cover "intense radiation field"; so following the above example, each slot gets discounted 6 (if 1/4) or 12 (if 1/2) points. Hey, I kind of like this...I know it would mess up my current players' EC costs though, although perhaps in a more balanced way. Will think about it. Gary, since you raised much of this, what do you think of that construct? I suspect it still saves too many points for you...

I didn't bring this up to debate you, just answering Hugh prematurely. No, let's leave it at we're not about to see eye to eye on that. As stated, I have respect for your approach.

Please check out http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8265 if you have any interest in contributing re a request for some Lovecraft help. It is a LONG post (sorry, but lots of details), but even if you just skim through you'll get the gist and might be able to help. I feel it's okay to cross-post since this IS a Champions game, just with this weird element now. Thanks.

Oh, I guess you might want to know...Lefty is his sentient detachable left hand. Like a son to him, and Sihn is like a dad to Lefty.

Oh if you're interested in more reading, but BETTER than above, really, my player wrote this back, it's fantastic: (Okay, bear with these first two paragraphs, they're for my players form me): The Justice Squad is hard-pressed. The storm in Detroit, now a week old, worsens, now snowing violently with several FEET on the ground. The damn dark cloud continues to lurk over Sihn-Tek. Buffy and her gang, along with the help of the Mysterymen, keep Sihn-Tek secured from the outside, and watch over that gaping dimensional hole above the building in the dark cloud above. The mayor is outraged. He has camped out, literally, in Laughon's office, coughing up the now-tiring Sammy-as-Sihn-as-mind-read-to-by-Laughton-via-Spectrum to the press - and it's starting to fail. The mayor knows though that he has to deliver more than words. He's asked Laughton to turn to stone many times so he could reap abuse on him "unofficially". Spectrum wonders what the mayor has over Laughton that he is the one man to whom Laughton kow-tows a bit. The Justice Squad is searching for a solution. They start searching through Sihn's things. Not at all hard to find (at least not for Laughton - Sihn is over 100 INT now and sometimes overestimates), they read this note: (OKAY< NOW is the excellent roleplay).... Part I To be delivered to the following people should I not return from the journey I seek to undertake shortly. Hamlet Laughton, Suzanne Palmer, Dr. Strange: I've come to the conclusion that I am a fool. That I have been meddling with things that must not be meddled with. That I have endangered lives with my haughty assurance that my scientific learning and analytical skills were superior to a mere book and the body of knowledge it encompassed. The Necronomicon - I shudder to even say its name aloud - has come to have a profound and nearly irreversible influence on my life, and on the lives of those around me. I must undertake a journey to destroy it, for it is evil. It is evil in a way I would have scoffed at mere weeks ago. But, in my intellectual arrogance, I was unable to see what was so blindingly obvious to lesser minds. My journey will be fraught with danger which I alone may face. My magico-genetically altered intellectual capabilities give me some strength with which I might fight the forces involved. I will face my fate alone. The Necronomicon came into my hands on a seeming lark some time ago. Herr Kietersling had intended the book for Laughton. I'd heard something of the stories surrounding this work, and knew instinctively that Laughton's limited capabilities would not be able to penetrate its mysteries. I knew instinctively that if it was in his hands, it might be dangerous. I discounted these notions immediately, but, something small, something undefinable, and quite frankly, something horrible, began to creep into my thoughts. I took the book for "safekeeping" making sure not to discuss the issue with my teammates. I secreted it in my lab, reading and digesting portions of it during my experiments. It seemed to open new vistas of creativity. New understandings of questions never before imagined. New beliefs. New insights. I scanned the book, and placed a copy on my PDA for quick reference. While I could easily memorize the work, it seemed, for some sort of nostalgic reason, that I needed to see the text for it to have its full effect. Much of the book at first seemed to be mere gibberish, ravings of some insane would-be wizard. Other parts of the book were more lucid, describing simple ceremonies based on physics far beyond quantum theories. Other references seemed strangely to echo some of my own researches into mutant genetics. At first I thought I had somehow hypnotized myself into seeing these things in a book compiled so very long ago. But, as time passed, I became aware of the truth - that this book was the gateway to a profound rethinking and redefining of science as we know it. What had at first seemed to be raving gibberish began to coalesce into clear descriptions and instructions based on a shorthand of rhythmic cants. The main thrust of the book concerned an elder race that came to earth eons ago, and who still lay dormant in certain spots - notably near the areas from which Aela and her clan originated. The various rituals and formulaes in the book described ways to wake these creatures from their slumber, and to call associated creatures from other dimensions - indeed from other entire realities. I must confess that I devoured these passages eagerly, and set about recreating some of the lesser rituals concerning animal sacrifice. My endeavors were immediately successful. Larger rituals demanded human sacrifice, a practice which is wholly abhorrent, even in the interest of science. Still, I found myself wondering if anyone would miss some of the villains we have detained in hot sleep. Thankfully, I stayed my hand, and committed no murder in the pursuit of this knowledge. My mind could not stop working on the new revelations of the book. By chance I found that I seemed to actually be better able to absorb the book while I was physically asleep. Sleep became an eagerly awaited ritual. And my dreams... My dreams were more than just dreams. I don't think I need to describe these particular experiences, since the Justice Squad indeed managed to accompany me into this vast convoluted land on one occasion, and Dr. Strange is well aware of the topology of the Dreamlands. Suffice it to say that these dreams were a real awakening. I began to apply the principles of the book to other applications, performing simple channelings and enchantments. It wasn't long before I realized I could replace the panoply of chemicals I carry with some gestures, incantations, and a magical staff. I was no longer bound by the limitations of chemistry. I was bound only by my own imagination. I found legions of uses for these abilities. I no longer needed animals for testing. I no longer even needed much in the way of technological equipment. In fact, I realized, I could save a lot of money in Sihntek's manufacturing division through the use of extra-dimensional labor. Nearly anything I could imagine became possible - but the amount of power I could control was finite, and bound by the edges of my imagination. I found that music and art could help expand this, however, and plunged into the study and application of those pursuits. My understanding grew. I'd long had access to devices that boost my natural intelligence. I used my new understanding to devise an even greater boost, harnessing the powers of earth-based science and the powers of extra-dimensional powers. Only, this is not power. Not physics. This is Magic. It took me a long time to admit it, but, I have indeed become a magician in the lay sense of the word. I still am not used to such an appellation, but I might as well describe things with the proper terminology. As I harnessed the abilities granted by my new insights, I was heady with power. I was unstoppable. I was the mightiest intellect earth, or perhaps even this universe, had ever known. When people questioned my studies, I scoffed at their small mindedness. They were mere ants in fear of a wooden match. I understood how insignificant a match was, and knew I could extinguish it just as easily as I could strike it. I scoffed at their warnings, fully assured that the lessons opened up to me by the Necronomicon were a mere triviality compared to my new state. I know of the journey undertaken by my comrades to protect themselves against me (see issue 29 - http://www.asterick.com/realschluss/x-champions/x-champions_issues/29_mission_mongolia.htm). The voices whispered it to me. They told me that the people I considered to be my friends were in fact conspiring against me. They told me I should strike first. I discounted these voices. Of course I knew Laughton and Suzanne were meddling in mystical matters far beyond their understanding, but, there was no threat to me. Would Laughton feel threatened if I hired another detective to check on him? If there was no threat, then why did I feel threatened? Why did the computers exposed to the necronomicon act so strangely? Why did Lefty fixate on the book? Why did my own infant son seem to be able to read it when he cannot even speak? These questions weighed on me. And then I realized that the book was not an object, but something indescribably more. It was something like an intelligence, and something like a gateway. Whatever it was, it was a presence all its own, and it was evil. The book had volition, and the book had an intelligence and will all its own. It was entrapping me and those I hold dear. At one point, I'd considered performing a ritual from the book to elebrate my son's birth. I recoil in horror now at that very idea. In an instant I understood malevolent evil. I'd heard of the notion many times, of course, and, in my career as a crime-fighter I'd seen my share of "evil" villains. But, they'd all been easy to explain away as lunatics or manifestations of someone's desire for power. This book, on the other hand, radiated an evil that was beyond all this - an utterly nihilistic and destructive evil. And evil for evil's own sake. It had preyed on my arrogance, leading me along the way with bread crumbs until my power grew to the point at which I could do real harm to reality as we understand it. In the last blink of an eye, I think I managed to pull ahead of it, for now, I understand that the book must be destroyed. Of course I tried a number of conventional means. Burning, acid, ecto-disintegration. But, the book seemed to survive my most destructive endeavors. Sometimes it would be unaffected. Other times it would vanish, only to reappear in my hand as I slept. It seemed to taunt me. I know now that the only way to destroy the book is to travel through the void to another place and to destroy the spirit that animates the book. I know that the presence behind the book is expecting me, and I even suspect that the events of the last several months may have been engineered to lure me to this place. The is a dangerous game. But, I think I have the strength to prevail. I know my enemy. I know my enemy will be setting traps. I think I will defeat them. But, I am not sure. Be advised that if I do not return within a week, that I might never return. I've done my best to protect the earthly end of the gate with protective sigils, but time was of the essence, and I go to fight a wily foe. I have brought this evil among us, and I will do what ever it takes to expel it. Eliot Sihn

Okay, guys......... Here's the deal, I only recently caught up on my Lovecraft - mainly due to a player who loaned me the books as his character in my game was going down that path. Things are now going "swell" and we're coming to an accelerated ending of the plotline kicked off when this massively brilliant (like 80 INT at that time) scientist got a hold of THE Necronmicon. Bwahahahahahaha. So here's the deal (if you're in my game, this is not a spoiler, this is the setup sent to the Sihn player): (WARNING - LONG but I hope entertaining - and there's a plea for help at the end so please do skim if you are into Lovecraft and Champions HERO): Re the Necronomicon, at first it was merely the convenience and persistence combined - once transcribed to computer, it populated onto all of Sihn's computer formats (including non-networked; most likely a dimensional travel attracted to the target of its "infection") and could not be reliably wiped out, always reappearing. We touched on this earlier. However, as Sihn moved on his own, the book started to show up in very unwelcome places. He found it in Lefty's sleeping hand when he awoke one night. Another night, recently and more frighteningly, a copy appeared in the baby's bed - and the baby had the appearance of reading it attentively, however illogical. The babies eyes moved across the pages as they turned in an unsourced breeze. Each destruction of the physical copy (assuming Sihn went to that point) resulted in its return to the vault he kept it in. And any attempt at ignoring it soon resulted in its reappearance in unwanted venues. As Sihn travelled the Dreamlands looking for more info on Bogeyman and following his footsteps, his own magic skills became subverted with those of the book. Spells reinvented themselves and began opening dangerous portals, including doorways not meant to be left open between dream and this dimension. Even a hasty research reveals that the Necronomicon, having found its intellectual equal, is using that equal to manifest a multi-dimensional corridor, but for purposes not at all clear. Most likely it is a Summoning of the beings who are reputed to have influenced and/or created it. More studies suggest but do not prove that these beings are malevolent to human life - or at least human sanity. Worse, they are nearly omnipotent, far exceeding the Volcano God or other such Earth-bound forms Sihn has encountered. The course of action becomes clear, even as books start to burn in Sihn's hands as he reads them (in fact he starts to lose significant portions of his library): a portal must be opened into which the wielder of the book must physically travel. Sihn must at least announce something of this to his Justice Squad peers, so they do not recklessly endanger themselves in looking for him. (Frankly, this was just so there was no immediate rationale for them to do so, at least not until you're gone long enough). I don't know if he says anything to Aela. The dimensional travel ought to seem like minutes back on Earth - unless it goes wrong in which case it could be millennia, but that's not the intent/plan. In this other dimension, Sihn has to find the actual "real" copy of the book. He should be guided by his acquaintanceship to it as well as its now-inextricable link to him, as its equal. In fact, he is the book's only real hope on this plane for now, unless Laughton or Dr. Doom were to pick it up. It's apparent the book had no such hook for Kietersling - but it is possible Kietersling knew it might for Laughton or Sihn and perhaps he's planned something. Once Sihn finds the book, he needs to destroy it. However, his own powers will be unpredictable in what is essentially a "nether-dimension" the physical book exists in. This dimension is more like a nexus of dimensions, a meeting place. As such it also houses many odd threats of its own. Are you okay with this so far? Let me know Sihn's thoughts and his actions. This is getting advanced a bit fast, obviously, but I'm fairly keen to let it do so; I fear the alternative makes the campaign center around Sihn too much. However, the next game could allow the others to get involved - or simply see Sihn return home safe and sound, albeit changed forever as you posit below. This could be the final step in his "radiation accident". And you don't want to know what's happening back in Detroit as the rift left behind in travel is not wholly closed... (actually it's not that bad, but there's been a couple deaths directly related - you'll see the writeup) -----Okay, and then after the player did some desperate digging and determined he needed to perform the quest---------- To get there in mechanical terms, it'll take an Ex-Dim travel (and sustained) out of his VPP. Nothing fancy - just a 20 pointer. Add a Side Effect (mystery) for -1 limitation, along with Focus (the Earth-bound physical manifestation of the book), OAF, -1. In terms of what Sihn actually does, it's way too simple. A song-chant of the entire book, which will take several hours even at a feverish pace, in an order not immediately obvious but now known to Sihn through his complete memorization of the book. There is a natural sequence built on both cadence and rhyming once the passages are rearranged. This sequence if done while the book is burnt page by page and the owner's (Sihn's) blood is spilt on it, will open the portal and Sihn can simply step into it. When the last page of the book is burnt and the last passage is sung, the portal closes and the book is reborn. Reopening it to get back is apparently a reversal of the process, with the book consumed and eaten slowly throughot the singing of the chant. Biggest issue is that Sihn is well aware his Magical control and even his physical body may differ in this dimension (or psuedo-dimension as its a nexus) significantly. But by the same token, the nexus is clearly not disabling to travelers and he's reasonably sure he'll be at least analogous ot his "regular" self. What Sihn does know for sure, after further study, is that the root form of the book lies in the nexus. It is not entirely clear what that true form is; it is either a creature of some sort or a more abstract form which may not have a physical presence but may have tremendous metaphysical powers. However, it is stuck, and it most strongly desires the ability to be freed so it can open the gateways for its kind, or an affiliated kind, the main subjects of the Necronomicon itself. In fact, the power the Necronomicon invokes is somehow traced through that creature and back to another dimension; even the massive power Sihn yields is a fraction of what lies beyond. But that doesn't mean this gateway creature/"thing" is nearly that powerful. In fact, it's likely that it is merely a connector - one among many - in the nexus region. A closer, if hurried, study of the energy channel reveals at least that some of Sihn's derived spells may have been revealed by the book but are not reliant on it per se. So there are a few possibilities: - find otherthings or connectors or beings in the nexus that may wish to assist Sihn or grant more power - the Necronomicon-thing itself may be vulnerable in some ways - it may even be immobile - that thing may even want to "cut a deal" - although most assuredly any such deal would be heinous - it is possible this thing is Nyarlathotep or related to that, given the study of references within the Necronomicon and their abundant first-hand acquaintance with the creature, unlike (at least Sihn as found) any other creature in the book; knowledge on that creature may apply to this one - the thing is almost certainly linked to the Earthian book manifestation, which may be a weakness somehow Perhaps the nexus can be permanently sealed in "hard and fast" way - but what will this do to the relationship among dimension? It should be noted that as above, it's clear magical energy flows through this nexus, and perhaps the shutting off of it may unhinge some balance of power on Earth. A text that Sihn finds from Dr. Strange alludes to this in the "ultimate" wizard's own commentary on refusing to destroy "a" nexus where great evil existed because he knew it also was a power source for many Earth "beings" (as he put it vaguely). and a vital part of the Earth ecology. I think I've told you as much as Sihn would know before entering. Are you taking Lefty? WARNING - if you have questions before entering, don't read below as I'll go ahead and cover the entrance part and you can react. Upon entering, Sihn is not surprised to find his physical form becomes strangely disproportionate, eyes bulging to larger than man-size, hands become at least paper-thin if not thinner, the torso takes a literal hourglass shape, his legs seem impossibly long (he can't see the end of them), and his head, aside from the eyes, seems to be at impossible angles, he cannot tell how many sides or angles exist, and even then it seems to change. It takes him what feels like hours (though he cannot be sure as time seems stopped in the nexus) simply to learn to move. Most people would have gone mad immediately. The nexus itself seems blacker than black, as if that were possible. Light seems to flee away from the observer rather than reflect. At first there is no sound. Sihn is standing on "nothing" but he clearly isn't floating, either, he feels like he's standing on two different planes. As Sihn becomes adjusted to moving and feels "natural", a light seems to come at him. He may try to dodge it. After moments he recognizes this is the light of another creature which is hailing him. There is no sound, but he feels a slick oily sensation pressing against his razor-thin arms. And it is the coldest thing he has ever felt. Where it touches him, he retracts involuntarily. He finds that he can now manipulate his body to feel and perhaps (it's hard to tell) actually be in the form he is familiar with, but it is now in Troll form, albeit with a sort of melting appearance as flesh droops about him. The thing suddenly reaches his mind and he can "hear" it, seeing images it projects. It shows a voyage not dissimilar to his own though not with a book but another device of some indecipherable sort. The thing is apparently asking for directions. It projects a word, revealing despite its alien nature an obvious panicked fear in doing so...Nyarlathotep. In the distance, Sihn can hear a sound. It seems like laughter at first, but at a furious pace, as if someone were laughing so fast that the laughs and gasps of air overlapped. But it s not laughter, and it seems to be constant, so constant it is immediately noxious. The other traveller projects a claustrophobic image of being surrounded by a shrinking sphere. And again the hideous-sounding word "Nyarlathotep" projects into Sihn's head, feeling as if it reverberates into the pit of his stomach. ---------------------- Okay, now, here's the deal...I'm still limited in my Lovecraft. So I'd love some feedback on what YOU would design the creature behind the Necronomicon to be like and what its vulnerabilities might be. Bear in mind, too, I want the player terrified, with the PC very closely risking death, maybe he will even die as it will be even-matched in a grim way. Please PRIVATE MESSAGE ME so it's not out here on the web. OH, bear in mind that I'd like the other PCs jump into this somehow in the Friday F2F game. Although it should be "realistic" as some of them would go permanently insane and I don't want that to happen.

LOL

That's fine. I wasn't really doing this because of the smaller power problem, but wanted to tacke that at the same time. However, FYI, I am down with doing this myself but in actual practce I've found people just compile a bunch of smaller powers into a single power, usually senses. Seems more elegant to me.

Re: Random thought Re the 1/3, 1/2, thing, I tried that out, each one scaled horribly one way or the other. Actually you're wrong, but you found a different scaling error which is a problem; a pool with ES of 50, 50, 50, and 20 having a control cost of 50 = 50 control cost + ((50/4) = 12) * 3 = 86, plus (20/4) = 5 = 91. Whereas you got the 50, 50, 50 with a control cost of 50 correctly (50 + ((50/3) = 17)*3 = 101, basically right. As you can see, this is a problem, but on the opposite end. Ah well, I'll keep at it, crap. Thanks much. As to ECs though, I don't think they're broken per se, I'm just looking at alternatives more from the idea of fusing frameworks.

Q: (okay more of a lead-in) And now on Krusty's, we have a surprise new meteorologist. A: The Plasmatics on acid.