Doc Democracy

Re: Duplication old school

So the prime is a 350 point caracter with X16 dups (25% altered) each dup has duplication of one (that dup having no Duplication power) so a max of 32 copies

Yeah but if each of the duplicates can bring forth 16 more duplicates in a couple of phases you have 256 in your army of one - more characters than you want to have to control in a champions game!

Doc

Re: Changing HERO - What are the limits?

I'm not with Phil on this one (sorry Phil).

Don't apologise to him - it only makes him feel the need to be more argumentative!

The movie Starship Troopers was 'based on' a book of the same name' date=' but as anyone who's watched/read both will tell you, one is not the other. The same goes for a game system. You might be able to say it's based on certain rules, but if you aren't actually using those rules, all they are is "based on" them.[/quote']

 

I typically go for feel. The Starship Troopers film was nothing like the book in terms of plot but I thought it had the right feel. I felt like I was watching something from the same universe as the when I was reading the book. My knowledge of the book made it easy for me to follow the film.

 

In the game I expect the same. When playing Hero I have certain expectations about gameplay. If I find them in a game 'based on' Hero then to me I am still playing Hero. If I am continually brought up short by 'Ah. Well that doesn't work like this in my game' then I don't feel as if I'm playing Hero. It is a subjective standard and will change from one person's expectations to anothers.

 

All of this is subjective though. Interesting as it is to read.

 

 

Doc

Re: Tips/Tricks/Advice

Deadlands was the game that turned me on to 'bits'.

I am keen to use poker chips to keep track of STUN and/or END in my next game. That way I can see the pile in front of the push monster rapidly disappear...

I'm thinking that END might be best to use the chips with as it is less core to roleplaying games in general - people are used to tracking damage...

Doc

Re: Changing HERO - What are the limits?

Why I would like to see is some more toolkitting built into the rules. It is there a bit. Pleanty of combat options: let's open that up a little. Why not have an OFFICIAL alternative to the speed chart, some dicussion or even suggestions for alternative pricing strategies and so on.

 

*sigh* Because, Sean, the book would then run to a little over 2000 pages...

 

Yeah, but APART from that....

I think that toolkitting is an advanced part of a HERO gamers experience and, as such, have no problems with such a thing being part of the Ultimate line.

The Ultimate Toolkit - now that's a book I'd pre-order and buy one or two copies of...

Doc

Re: Duplication old school

Sounds like a plan to me' date=' matey. Mind you, if I was a GM I'd be very wary of this one: looks like far too much work to me.[/quote']

 

Oh God yes. I can just imagine hordes of characters appearing and causing the game to grind to a stop as the hundred and twenty sixth version of Duplo-Boy steps out of nowhere adding an extra 64 actions in segment 10!

 

 

As a GM I think I'd have to work out some kind of compromise with the player to provide the flexibility of having so many of him around and having some combat effect without having to stop the game and let a Cray do all the calculations for us....

 

 

Doc

Re: Changing HERO - What are the limits?

I'm with Phil. To me Hero is almost a design philosophy and I can use the bits and pieces provided to me in the toolkit to make the game that I want.

Now, it is obviously much better for transferability if somewhere there is a character sheet with numbers on it that could be taken to another HERO GM and say "Can I play this character" and he could discuss what would and would not be allowable in his game but (in my mind) not necessarily.

I think that Phil's system would need some explanation to HERO GMs but that they would recognise things as HERO based rather than a new game. They would be able to see the origins of the game and they would very quickly adapt and be able to 'play the game' rather than get bogged down with how the system worked (because they already 'know' it).

I think it would be nearly impossible to come to a core set of details because you'll always find someone that has changed one element of that core set in their game and still feel that they are playing HERO.

Doc

Re: Duplication old school

I'd have thought the best way to create an infinite number of duplicates would be to buy a lot of copies at 5 points per doubling then, to simulate a duplicate duplicating, buy each dupe with scaleable megascale teleport (only to appear next to the dupe who is trying to duplicate). It is not exactly what you are after, but, by the sound of it I would not allow what you are after, if it is, effectively an unlimited number of dupes, increasing on an exponential basis

I think Sean's take is best though (obviously) would change it slightly - I wasn't convinced about the megascale teleport though it does give some flexibility,

I would buy the doubled duplicate number for five points and then limit the doubler with (extra time) and (only next to earlier duplicate who has not yet duplicated).

So the character will duplicate on his first phase and at the end of the next phase will be able to see the two become four, at the end of the turn the four become eight, in a minute the eight become sixteen etc.

I might then buy the next few doublings with minute extra-time limitations and call them two minute delay, three minute delay etc.

Doublings could come down in price to 1 point per doubling and the potential for huge numbers of duplicates - given enough time.

Doc

Re: Take your time

What if you have your Player make a Mind Scan roll at every increment of the Time Chart' date=' with the odds getting better as you go? ... and where ever he/she makes the roll... thats how long it takes...[/quote']

 

The other option is for the first roll to say exactly how long it is going to take - metagaming yes but also avoids the problem.

 

If you miss your roll by 4 then you take four steps down the time chart to see how long you take (if you do nothing but simply scan).

 

That minimises the rolling required and allows the game to move along.

 

 

Doc

Re: Take your time

I feel your pain Sean. Where do you get all of these questions from? Surely you aren't actually coming up with this stuff during actual gaming sessions?

I would possibly think about applying penalties to retries. If someone mind scans then wants to do it again a phase later then I'd apply a penalty.

For example - say they want to scan 10,000 people (-8 penalty as you said). Well if they want to scan immediately after then you could apply a -8 proximity penalty (harsh? possibly!) and the proximity penalty would reduce as per the mind scan chart until there was no proximity penalty at 1 week.

There may be a break point at around a day where it might be worth trying again when the time spent cancels out the proximity penalty or goes slightly beyond that.

This is quite harsh but it means that the player can take a chance immediately but realise that if he fails then he'll be waiting some time before he has a reasonable chance to try again. It might lead to some more hesitation before immediately jumping in with a mind scan.

I have lots of ifs buts and caveats in my head but have not got the patience to go through them all just now...

Doc

Re: Who knows physics?

Now' date=' I think plants are happy with low levels of near UV: part of the absorption bands of some chlorophylls are down in that part of the spectrum and can work with it quite happily. So from the point of view of the [i']plants[/i] you don't want to get rid of all the UV. That's also true from the point of view of the humans. Part of our internal vitamin D synthesis is dependent upon near-UV. Without it, you are going to be deficient in vitamin D (which, if chronic, is called rickets) unless you make it up in diet by eating fish oil or other supplements. (This is, BTW, thought to be an evolutionary reason why light-colored skin evolved: groups that live in low-sun regions like northern Europe needed all the UV that came through the atmosphere where they live, so they evolved to much lower melanin content than their tropical ancestors. Melanin is a protectant against UV damage.) I expect in a sci-fi campaign dietary supplements are the norm, but my point is that modest levels of near-UV are not harmful and for some organisms may even be required.

I thought you were going to say what I was thinking...

Do you need physics or biology? Plants do absorb UV light to use in photosynthesis. Some plants utilise the energy provided during photosynthesis to photo-luminesce (and as a bonus side effect they convert carbon dioxide to oxygen).

Now if you have bands of properly genetically modified algae within your dome then the algae could adsorb the UV from the dome, bio-luminesce for you and help scrub the atmosphere of carbon dioxide....

Sod physics, long live biology!

Doc

Re: Metamorphosis

Dear God that's creepy.

Yah. Creepy was the word. It was PBeM and as such he was able to play him as really disconnected. He was no longer sure that his core body was the original - the original may have been killed among the carnage of previous fights and wehat is left is an alternate version of himself that simply feels the same as the original.

The campaign was harsh and some of the characters reflected the harshness of the world.

Doc

Re: Metamorphosis

Yup. Though it's not' date=' strictly speaking, the same thing you guys are expicitly talking about...Package 'Deals', anyone? [/quote']

 

Yeah - package deals are just a package - you don't get the cost break that you are expecting.

 

There are lots of places this happens. I know that when I made my friend a duplicating character without using the duplication power he was a bit disconcerted. However my builds meant that he got the flavour of thousands of alternate realities coming into being and disappearing were better modelled (his force field had the sfx of hundreds of alternate versions of himself appearing and being killed and there still being more around to soak up damage - it was abalative and so the crowd was slowly reduced by large amounts of damage. The Madding Crowd was a cool character if ever so slightly Iron Age).

 

 

Doc

Re: Metamorphosis

I've noticed that' date=' and this is not meant to be a negative critasism, you tend to have an idea of what a power is supposed to do - regardless of what the power actually does do - and get upset with the system when you find out it doesn't meet your expectations. The problem isn't you and it isn't the system - it's your interactions with the system not meeting your personal expectations, a sort of Disconnect exists.[/quote']

 

Well, to be honest I think it is more likely to happen with Hero than many other systems due to Hero's USP. Powers in Hero aer not powers in the sense of other games, they are game effects and we use them to construct powers.

 

The problem is that the name the game effects have sometimes been given can draw a picture in people's brains - such as multiform and even energy blast. There are expectations built up before the first word of the description is read.

 

I love the Hero system and think that I have my head round the way things are done but even then I still find myself drawn to a particular power as 'the way the system wants me to do this' because of its name rather than looking for the most appropriate game effect to use.

 

 

Doc

Re: Metamorphosis

From my POV' date=' for the context of any arguement on the boards Steve is Right. If you state you're using house rules because you feel something different from Steve you have done two things: 1) Removed yourself from the current conversation regarding universal applications of the Rules/System. 2) Automatically become correct in your statement, so long as it pertains to your Game/Group.[/quote']

 

 

well-stated and conciliatory? you deserve rep but I don't spread it around enough...

Re: Suggestions requested.

"What exactly do you want to do with the Cloak of Illusions effect wise?"

 

Sneak around behind to ambush, spy, or escape... kind of like the shadow from the radio show.

It would appear as though you are looking for a limited form of invisibility.

Hero is a system where the special effects of powers might be varied. Invisibility might represent the ability to vanish into thin air. It might also represent the ability to walk unnoticed among people - possibly limited as to whether recording devices such as cameras notice you.

If you want to become invisible at will and for people not to notice that you have just vanished then the GM might require you to take invisible power effects on the power.

I would imagine that a cloak of illusions as you describe would be

Invisibility, obvious focus (probably accessible), not when fighting, only to avoid notice (cameras will pick up presence), O END.

Don't have my book with me and so no numbers attached.

Doc

Re: New to system... character ??

I gotcha. My first excursion will be in a Pulp game.... going for a "Shadow" type theme.

 

Thanks for the advice.

Excellent, it's a fantastic genre and one I think that Hero is particularly suited to.

I would suggest thinking about the background to the character that you want to play - come up with a 100-200 word description and then try to put statistics to the words (make a character).

If you want to post your character (with background) to the Pulp Hero forums, the excellent people there would be more than happy to critique and suggest other stuff.

Remember to tell them the points the GM is making available to you (benchmarks are less prominent in pulp hero games but flavour is paramount).

Doc

Re: New to system... character ??

Should I go more power based or skill based? I realize balanced is ideal' date=' but to start what is the most efficient use of points?[/quote']

 

Rathicus

 

In Hero, the GM has to set a number of benchmarks for his game, until those benchmarks are known then it is impossible to say what would be survivable and what would not.

 

For example, if the GM tells you that the average attack in the game will be 12D6 that means that the average attack will do 42 STUN damage and 12 BODY.

 

The average speed is normally about 5.

 

The GM might also indicate a benchmark for combat values - like a maximum of CV 9 with an average of 7.

 

So if Average Villain is fighting you shooting five times a round doing 42 STUN and 12 BODY then you have to be able to

 

1 - avoid getting hit all the time

2 - accept that you get hit and buy defences that prevent you taking damage

3 - accept that you get hit sometimes and buy enough defences that the STUN damage taken in a round doesn't exceed your STUN total nor BODY damage exceed your BODY total.

 

In most cases you will find that 3 is the most practical option and the GM should help you to fine tune that.

 

You fine tune your ability to do damage in the same way - working with the GM to ensure that your attacks don't completely overwhelm the expected average opposition nor are so weak that they'd never do any damage.

 

Mostly your combat comes through chracteristics and powers (with some specialised combat skills adding to and enhancing those). Most skills are there to allow you to flesh out the character and be able to do something in the game beyond hit things and move...

 

 

 

Doc

Re: Metamorphosis

Actually' date=' yelling and screaming would involve sonic energy, [/quote']

 

Reaching going on on both sides here I think!

 

I think that the main argument system wise has to be that EB is designed as a way to cause STUN and BODY damage to characters in the game. That is the core system function. You add a bit of SFX when you decide as a player/GM whether to pit that damage against energy defences or physical defences - the first step in defining the colour of the damage causing entity.

 

After that you add more colour - its to do with shouting, or fire or small bits of metal moving very quickly.

 

Energy Blast is probably a misnomer in the game because it would seem obvious to apply energy blast against energy defence but that is not the case. It should be called Attack Power or something similarly generic.

 

 

I now return you to your regular programme.

 

 

Doc

Re: Metamorphosis

There is very little in SS that can't be done better or cheaper by other powers. For a power that is 'core' to a LOT of superhero comics (and other genres) this one could do with a lot of work. IMO.

As I said before, I tend to do shapeshifting characters by buying powers and using shapeshift as the SFX of those powers. I was wondering whether shapeshift should possibly be a discussion of how other powers might be limited or advantaged or simply just stated using Shapeshift as the SFX justification of the powers?

That is, lose the actual power shapeshift but explain how to achieve such a thing through the use of other powers - perhaps (in Hero terms) its not a power that exists at all - it is a simply a justification for other powers that "do the job better"....

Doc

Re: Making a Force Field Bubble

[*]The FF protects all within it from all attacks. Anyone may enter the area of the FF' date=' and if they do they acquire its full protection. Anyone who leaves the area loses the FF's protection.[/list']

Under this interpretation would the FF protect those within the area from attacks from other people within it - that is the area effect either gives everyone a FF style protection - or only protects from those outside the area - more like the bubble effect?

Doc

Re: Skills System - Out of Synch?

Did you just use thinking and forum in the same context, Doc D?

Am I mixing up thinking and tinkering?

perhaps I need to get away from work and get some sleep....

Re: Question: Movement 'Trick'

I could do a half move Fly, then a half move Teleport. I couldn't do anything else until my next phase, which would be 2 segments away. During those 2 segments, I would fall. And, if I were close enough to the ground, I would crash. What I would like to do is to continue flying after teleporting. Part of this, I can do by proper use of my 'Momentum' advantage (I forget its actual name). This can (sort-of) maintain my horizontal flight (kind of llike being shot out of a cannon, you just keep going). How would I maintain altitude?

This is another mental disconnect between reality and the system. The speed chart is, IMO (and many others in the Best Bit thread), one of the best things about Hero. It does however lead to these strange semi-wargame problems.

Movement is not and never has been done on a segment by segment basis. With the right mix of movement and speed the faster (by velocity) character can be caught by the slower one - because phases come up irregularly.

My own take on this is that if you use a full phase in moving then it takes you a full phase to do it - you don't move your full phase movement in a segment and then stop while the next two segments tick past and then move again.

Thus, in the example above the flight and teleport take up your full phase and the next time anything happens your next phase - no falling - no concerns about falling - just what you are going to do in your next phase.

In my game there will be no handwaving or anything else - I will not have stutter stop flight from my PCs or NPCs. Everything will flow the way it should....

So there!

Doc

Re: Skills System - Out of Synch?

I read your possible interpretation' date=' and to be honest the first thing that jumped to mind was, "Whoa... talk about overthinking an issue. Just look at who makes the better roll IN THIS INSTANCE and go with it."[/quote']

 

I must be confused - isn't this the overthinking the issue forum?

Re: Skills System - Out of Synch?

The 17- is better than the 12- because if they each roll a 10 the 17- person succeeds by a much larger margin than the 12- person. It's a comparative system, not an absolute one.

Is that a rule in the system or just the one that you use? I can't remember seeing any comparators like that.

I have used different comparators - lowest roll is best, highest roll is best, greatest margin is best. Probably the last one is the most intuitive and gives the large skill more chance of being better than the low one - another strength of the bell curve there as well.

Doc

Re: Making a Force Field Bubble

I think that there is a good reason that it is difficult to do - there is a huge potential for abuse.

Consider three players with the same kind of ability - the second and third throwing up their bubble inside the first. You get a triple force field for little extra cost and you can shoot out with no limits.

Force Wall is the way to go though I would allow the other players to purchase one or more attacks with a limited indirect - only while in the Force Wall.

That way you get to shoot out from inside but it is most useful for protecting a bunch of innocents rather than functioning as a damned efficient mobile fortress.

Doc