Sith Lord VPP

[phydaux]

So I've been playing WAY too much Star Wars: The Old Republic lately. I've decided that my next ton will be a Sith Lord. I was going to use a Multipower, but as we all know once you get past five slots then it's cheaper to go with a VPP.

 

So 60 pip VPP Force Powers Only, 30 pip control cost. This allows me to change powers on the fly as a free action without a roll, right?

 

So what powers?

 

4d6 RKA Force Lightning

40pips Telekinesis

12d6 EB TK Push/Thrown Object

3d6-1 AP RKA No Range Lightsaber

12D6 0 End Hand Attack Low Power Lightsaber

16PD/16ED Hardened FF 0 END Precognitive Lightsaber Block

30" Super Leap

 

What other Force Powers should/could I include?

 

And if my math is wrong on the control cost (change powers on the fly as a free action without a roll), at what number of slots does it become cheaper to go VPP over Multipower?

 

 

[Hyper-Man]

Here is an incomplete 5th edition Jedi template I've posted before:

 

VAL CHA Cost Total Roll Notes

20 STR 10 20 13- HTH Damage 4d6 END [4]

20 DEX 30 20 13- OCV 7 DCV 7

20 CON 20 20 13-

15 BODY 10 15 12-

18 INT 8 18 13- PER Roll 13-

20 EGO 20 20 13- ECV: 7

15 PRE 5 15 12- PRE Attack: 3d6

14 COM 2 14 12-

4 PD 0 4 4 PD (0 rPD)

4 ED 0 4 4 ED (0 rED)

4 SPD 10 4 Phases: 3, 6, 9, 12

8 REC 0 8

40 END 0 40

35 STUN 0 35

6 RUN 0 6" END [1]

2 SWIM 0 2" END [1]

4 LEAP 0 4" 4" forward, 2" upward

 

CHA Cost: 115

 

Cost POWERS

37 Sensitivity to the Force: Danger Sense (general area, any danger, Function as a Sense) 13- - END=

 

22 Force Directed Lightsaber Deflection: Missile Deflection (Any Ranged Attack), Missile Reflection, Reflect At Any Target (50 Active Points); OAF (-1), Requires A PER Roll (No Active Point penalty to Skill Roll; Danger Sense; -1/4) - END=0

 

45 Lightsaber: (Total: 138 Active Cost, 45 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Armor Piercing (+1/2), Penetrating (x3; +1 1/2) (52 Active Points); OAF (-1), STR Minimum 10 (STR Min. Cannot Add/Subtract Damage; -1), No Range (-1/2), No Knockback (-1/4) (Real Cost: 14) plus Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Armor Piercing (+1/2), Damage Shield (Offensive; Only vs. targets touching the blade; +3/4), Continuous (+1), Penetrating (x3; +1 1/2) (86 Active Points); OAF (-1), Linked (Killing Attack - Ranged; -1/4), Limited Power Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness (Only vs. objects touching the blade; -1/4), No Knockback (-1/4) (Real Cost: 31) - END=0

 

30 Jedi Combat TK: Telekinesis (20 STR), Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; -0 Limitation: Can Be Blocked/Deflected (If Perceivable); +1/2), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; -0 Limitation: Visible to Mental Sense Group; +1) (75 Active Points); Instant (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Requires A Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 20 Active Points; -1/4), Affects Whole Object (-1/4)

[Notes: Advanced practitioners should be allowed to buy off the Instant and Affects Whole Object Limitations either directly or by way of a seperate Naked Power.] - END=7

 

POWERS Cost: 134

 

Cost MARTIAL ARTS

Jedi TK Arts: Basic

8 1) +2 HTH Damage Class(es)

3 2) Martial Grab: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Two Limbs, 40 STR for holding on

3 3) Martial Throw: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +1 DCV, 6d6 +v/5, Target Falls

5 4) Takeaway: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, Grab Weapon, 40 STR to take weapon away

 

-8 Jedi TK Arts: Advanced, Private Adder

[Notes: These Maneuvers require some of the Limitations (like Instant and Affect Whole Object) be bought off of the character's TK before they can be used.]

4 1) Choke Hold: 1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +0 DCV, Grab One Limb; 3d6 NND

4 2) Crush: 1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, 10d6 Crush, Must Follow Grab

 

MARTIAL ARTS Cost: 19

 

Cost SKILLS

10 Defense Maneuver I-IV

12 +4 with Lightsabers

8 Penalty Skill Levels: +4 vs. Hit Location modifiers with with Lightsabers

5 Rapid Attack (HTH)

 

SKILLS Cost: 35

 

Base Pts: 200

Exp Required: 103

Total Exp Available: 0

Exp Unspent: 0

Total Character Cost: 303

 

 

[Hyper-Man]

A 5e VPP to contain the existing TK build as a slot would look like this:

 

130 Force Abilities: Variable Power Pool, 75 base + 37 control cost, Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1), No Skill Roll Required (+1) (186 Active Points); all slots Limited Power Unified Power (6th edition Limitation; -1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Requires A Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 20 Active Points; -1/4)

0 1) Force Combat TK: Telekinesis (20 STR), Area Of Effect Accurate (One Hex; -0 Limitation: Can Be Blocked/Deflected (If Perceivable); +1/2), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; -0 Limitation: Visible to Mental Sense Group; +1) (75 Active Points); Instant (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Requires A Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 20 Active Points; -1/4), Affects Whole Object (-1/4) Real Cost: 27

[Notes: Advanced practitioners should be allowed to buy off the Instant and Affects Whole Object Limitations either directly or by way of a seperate Naked Power.] - END=7

 

Because the Real Cost of the slot is only 27 points the character could use 2 or more "Force" abilities simultaneously. A 6e VPP would be far cheaper if you only want the ability to use one slot at a time.

[Hyper-Man]

Here is a 6e VPP example:

 

86 Force Powers: Variable Power Pool, 30 base + 75 control cost, No Skill Roll Required (+1), Powers Can Be Changed As A Zero-Phase Action (+1) (142 Active Points); all slots Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Requires A Roll (14- roll; -1/4), Unified Power (-1/4)

0 1) Combat Force TK: Telekinesis (20 STR), Area Of Effect Accurate (4m Radius; +1/2), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1) (75 Active Points); Instant (-1/2), Affects Whole Object (-1/4) Real Cost: 27

[phydaux]

A power with 138 active points? Yeah, most GMs would have no problem with that. LOL.

 

So zero phase change, no skill roll is +2 to the control cost? So my 60 pip VPP would have a control cost of 90?

 

So if I did it as a 60 pip Multi and my Ultra slots cost 6 pips each then I don't get any VPP "savings" until I pass 15 slots?

 

OK, 60 pip multi it is. What powers should do in it, other than:

 

Force Lightning 4d6 RKA

Telekinesis 40pips

TK Push/Thrown Object 12d6 EB

Lightsaber 3d6-1 AP RKA No Range

Low Power Lightsaber 12D6 0 End Hand Attack

Precognitive Lightsaber Block 16PD/16ED Hardened FF 0 END

Force Leap 30" Super Leap

 

What else? I'm thinking a heal, some kind of mind control, maybe an Ego Blast but I'm not really sure that fits, and some sort of clairvoyance/clairaudience with no conscious player control.

 

[Hyper-Man]

A power with 138 active points? Yeah' date=' most GMs would have no problem with that. LOL. So zero phase change, no skill roll is +2 to the control cost? So my 60 pip VPP would have a control cost of 90? So if I did it as a 60 pip Multi and my Ultra slots cost 6 pips each then I don't get any VPP "savings" until I pass 15 slots? OK, 60 pip multi it is. What powers should do in it, other than: [i']Force Lightning [/i]4d6 RKA Telekinesis 40pips TK Push/Thrown Object 12d6 EB Lightsaber 3d6-1 AP RKA No Range Low Power Lightsaber 12D6 0 End Hand Attack Precognitive Lightsaber Block 16PD/16ED Hardened FF 0 END Force Leap 30" Super Leap What else? I'm thinking a heal, some kind of mind control, maybe an Ego Blast but I'm not really sure that fits, and some sort of clairvoyance/clairaudience with no conscious player control.

 

1. What edition of the rules are you using?

2. I agree that a Multipower would be the better framework option for medium power force users but starting ones don't even need a framework to begin with and still be quite effective.

3. Why do you want to mix the lightsaber in the same framework as the force abilities? It's a universal focus since Han could activate it.

 

[phydaux]

IMO the Lightsaber is a SFX. That way the toon is never disarmed.

 

I'm using 5th Ed.

 

Any ideas for other powers to go into the framework?

 

I figure I'd also want Danger Sense and "Force Awareness" that will function like Mental Awareness but for Force powers.

 

 

 

 

[PaycheckHero]

So if I did it as a 60 pip Multi and my Ultra slots cost 6 pips each then I don't get any VPP "savings" until I pass 15 slots?

 

 

At least. Don't forget that Multipowers are also more generous with limitations than VPPs, so depending on what limitations you're willing to take it could be more than that. You can put a limitation on a single slot in a Multi, but a limitation that only applies to a single power doesn't make a VPP any cheaper (it just make the power take up fewer real points in the pool. And if you find one that applies to all of them, you can appliy that to the VPP control cost but not the pool, whereas you can apply it to every slot *and* the reserve with a Multipower. So if you have some unifying limitations, it could take a lot more than 15 slots to break even.

 

Reading the framework rules carefully for whichever edition you're using would be a good idea, but IIRC the above will apply to 4th, 5th, and 6th. If I recall incorrectly someone will be along to flame me shortly. :-) Also, I think at least the 4e VPP may not have had any way to buy up the active point max, which meant that in many, perhaps most cases it was *horribly* inefficient if you could only have one power at a time (you had to have enough pool points to match the maximum active points, and so if the powers had limitations and were one at a time you got nothing for the one-at-a-time limitation). 6e doesn't have that problem, and I don't recall what 5e does. So you have to read the edition you're playing and make sure the GM doesn't houserule anything you're depending on (we had a houserule way to up the active point limit on a 4e VPP, though it was kinda under close GM scrutiny because it could easily be used for evil).

[steriaca]

IMO the Lightsaber is a SFX. That way the toon is never disarmed. I'm using 5th Ed. Any ideas for other powers to go into the framework? I figure I'd also want Danger Sense and "Force Awareness" that will function like Mental Awareness but for Force powers.

 

Using Champions Complete's Enhanced Senses power, Force Awareness could look like this:

 

Force Awareness: Detect "The Force" (large class of things), Analyze, Discrinatory, Increase Arc Of Perception (360-Degree Perception), Penetrative (Fully), Range (single Sense), Sence, Targeting, Telescopic (+10 vs Range Modifier), Tracking: 62CP. Note: Force Users usaly also buy the Advantage MegaScale on it. And that dosen't count Danger Sence AND Combat Sence (with usaly Danger Sence bought as Galaxy wide).

 

It is proably sergested to buy a low lever version of this power, and then use the VVP to buy Aid to Force Awairness on it.

[phydaux]

Wow. Targeting? Telescopic? Megascale? 62CP? I'm talking about a version of Mental Awareness only for The Force, just like the Mental Awareness that Ego power users get for free with a 1d6 Ego Blast.

[psyber624]

Wow. Targeting? Telescopic? Megascale? 62CP? I'm talking about a version of Mental Awareness only for The Force, just like the Mental Awareness that Ego power users get for free with a 1d6 Ego Blast.

That would probably be something you would get a GM to do (basically "Force" powers are the mental powers of the Star Wars universe so for the vast majority of them treat them just like mental powers (assuming this is set in the Star Wars Universe).

 

Other comments: The lightsaber really shouldn't be in the force Multipower, it is its own thing and might have a second multipower dedicated to it (different ways to use your lightsaber, HKA, Thrown, Deflection, etc.) Pouring it all into one Multipower does NOT fit concept and (at least IMHGMO) should not be done (its basically a points cheat).

 

Don't forget mind control ("These are not the droids you are looking for"), Precog, and a General vague and unclear Clairsentience ("I sense a disturbance in the force").

 

Finally, LS Block would either be some sort of huge +OCV with Block, or tons of DCV. As it stands your PD/ED version basically means that the LS is used to prevent some of the damage of an incoming attack (and would also be useable to negate AOE damage). I have never seen a Light Saber used in that fashion.

[steriaca]

Well, "The Force" includes "Mental Awairness", but is not limited to the mind.

[CrosshairCollie]

Since the Force is just psychic powers, basically any telekinetic, telepathic, or clairvoyant power is applicable.