Summoned Weapon and Just Plain Attack

[Christopher R Taylor]

OK please bear with me here.  I've been playing Hero since 1982 and have written for Hero Games for a long time (My first work was a set of spells for the 4th edition Fantasy Hero Companion).

 

Forever something has confused and bothered me and I have never worked it out.

 

What is the difference between a blast that uses a focus... and a focus that uses a blast?

 

What I mean is this: you can build an ability Blast, OAF, and it creates a blast that you can only use if you have an OAF.  But you can also build it as a gun, an OAF that anyone can pick up and use as a blast.

There are two aspects to this.  First is the "only I can use this" concept vs univeral foci, which is explained in the rules. That's not what I'm talking about here.

 

What I am talking about here is, say, someone who can do a blast, but only if they are holding their special focus.  Like a wizard who has to have a staff, or an alien that can do an electrical blast, but they have to have a piece of wood to use as a focus.

 

Then there are just foci that people can use to blast with, like a ray gun.

 

And, to complicate matters, there is the idea of a character that can hand out items that do something, like a magic wand or a totem.  They create the focus, give it to someone, and that person can use it.

 

ALL OF THESE ARE BUILT THE SAME.  But they all have different specific characteristics, advantages, and drawbacks which affect how they act.

 

[Grailknight]

What you are asking is just more definition on how the Power was purchased.

 

Each of those Blast Powers(wand, chunk of wood or gun) are being defined using the OAF Focus  game mechanic. Personal and Universal are really just codified SFX. They are so ingrained into Hero's history that they are included as common variations on the Limitation, Focus.

 

While they are considered equal in value per RAW, I can see that this may not be accepted by all GM's nor appropriate for all campaigns.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Sure, but how do i simulate a spell that summons an item that I had off, that's an OAF weapon?

 

All those modifiers with gestures and everything you do to cast the spell then are passed on to the person you hand the weapon: every time they want to swing it, they have to do all that stuff.

 

If you buy it constant, it just does the damage perpetually once you attack.  You can't use a power like Object Creation (specifically states in the rules you cannot).  Buying a transformation attack to make a weapon you give away just feels really wrong.

[LoneWolf]

Check the rules for Differing Modifies under Usable on Others.  It allows you to create a power you give to someone else and put a different set of limitations on your ability to grant the power. This seems like what you are looking for.

[MrKinister]

On 8/7/2021 at 10:23 AM, Christopher R Taylor said:

What I am talking about here is, say, someone who can do a blast, but only if they are holding their special focus.  Like a wizard who has to have a staff, or an alien that can do an electrical blast, but they have to have a piece of wood to use as a focus.

I see what you mean.

This is the way I see your distinction:

 

1. Focus: the power comes from the focus "object" itself, not the character.

 

This is the standard "Focus" definition.

 

2. The character has the power, but can't use it unless an "object" is in possession, at which point the power can be activated.
 

Here is where I see the difference. This is essentially a limitation. You can build it using the focus rules, with durability, obviousness, accessibility, etc., etc. but you are just altering the "flavor" of the limitation special effects by saying that the power is actually in the character, but the character needs the object. From a technical point, there is no difference. From a flavor/special effects, sure, you can define it any way you want.

 

You could even say that instead of a focus, it is a -1/2 limitation: power does not work without a given object ("focus"). Very straightforward.

To me there are practically no differences there, just a slight change in flavor, if you choose to use the Focus Limitation rules as written.

[mallet]

This sounds to me like Delayed Effect with a UOO. Here is how I'd build it for a "summoned" sword. 

 

Summon Magic Sword:  Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, Delayed Effect (+1/4), Usable By Other (The summoned sword is usable by whoever wields it; +1/2), Grantor can take back power at any time (52 Active Points); OAF (Wizard Staff to cast, physical sword to use; Requires Multiple Foci; -3/4), Gestures (Requires both hands; -1/2), Incantations (-1/4)

 

As per the Delayed Effect rules, all the "summoning" limitations (wizard staff, gestures, incantations) are only used when the spell is first cast earlier on, after that the wizard only activates the spells (half phase action) and the sword appears in his hand. he/she can then give the sword to whoever they want to use it. 

 

The Wizard spends 5 END when first casting the spell, then no END until the spell is activated.

 

After that, I am a little bit fuzzy on what happens per RAW. I think that: Once spell is activated, whoever is using the Magic Sword pays 5 END a phase, whether attacking or not, to keep it active. As soon as no one is paying END for the sword it disappears and the Wizard would have to cast the spell again from scratch. 

[LoneWolf]

For a wizard to be able to summon a sword he can give away is simply a differing modifier under the UOO.  What you do is first build the power that the wizard can grant.  So in this case it would be a 1d6+1 HKA, with 0 END, OAF, STR Min 10 and real weapon.  This comes to 11 point which is the base cost for the differing modifier.  

 

Next the wizard builds the spell to summon said sword.  He applies the Usable by other (+1/4) and any limitations he wants for the casting of the spell.  So let’s say Requires a skill roll (-1/2), Gesture (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), and OAF wand (-1)  for a total of a -2 limitation.   The Wizard pays 5 points for the ability to summon a sword that has the stats of the one built above. 

 

This allows the wizard to summon a sword and give it to an ally.  The ally can then use the sword just like he would a real sword.  If the wizard built the base power differently that would change how it was used.  For example if they did not put the STR Minimum the person using the sword would be able to use their full STR to add damage, not just the amount the their STR exceeds the minimum.   

 

Hero Designer does things a little differently, it actually puts a negative cost on the differing modifier but it works out the same.  Doing it this way allows the base power to show up on the character sheet to make it easier to deal with.