EARTH-641 (My Combined DC & Marvel Universe Campaign)

[KawangaKid]

Well, I finally have been able to start (and consistently run) my Champions campaign set in a combined Marvel & DC universe.

 

It's a superheroic campaign where DC & Marvel Universes have merged, and I'm busy coming up with rationale, pruning, and GM's fiat that justifies why the power levels are low, and why the multiple threats to Earth, The Universe, and Everything haven't emerged and haven't driven the populace insane.

 

I'll post in the future about how I've been trying to translate all this "Session Zero" stuff for super-heroic campaigns into my own setting and universe -- and how I'm actually taking some of the adventures from other RPGs (super-heroic and non-superheroic) and translating them into my campaign's adventures. I did a lot of writing and thinking about the campaign, because I really wanted to get the types of adventures and the type of campaign clear in my head, before I started. But I also had to avoid the trap of over-prepping for the campaign, because I wanted to leave space for the characters my players build to carve out their own stories and backstories in the universe.

 

Am also relearning building characters in HERO, and have been negotiating with my players which of our preferred versions of the rules to use, and it's mostly 5th Edition HERO with some carry-over rules from 4th. So, we shall see!

I've been blogging about it here. Will share some other items of interest as I get further in my campaign.

01 - https://armchairgamer.blogspot.com/2023/03/champions-one-earth.html [ FIRST POST ]

02 - https://armchairgamer.blogspot.com/2023/05/champions-one-earth-broad-strokes.html [ BROAD STROKES of the CAMPAIGN ]

03 - https://armchairgamer.blogspot.com/2023/05/champions-one-earth-bayport-megacity.html [ SETTING: BAYPORT MEGACITY ]

04 - https://armchairgamer.blogspot.com/2023/05/champions-one-earth-player-characters.html [ CHARACTERS: Part 1 ]

05 - https://armchairgamer.blogspot.com/2023/05/champions-one-earth-player-characters_14.html [ CHARACTERS: Part 2 ]

 

Edited May 14, 2023 by KawangaKid
fixing links

[steriaca]

Humm. I can see a Wizard's Councle operating out of the Rock Of Eternity. The councle members are technically retired from the "protect the Earth dimension", but they use agents to kinda continue the good fight.

 

Members/Agents

 

Doctor Strange/John Consitine (they really hate each other, cause there magic is so different)

 

Zartana/his daughter Zantana

 

Shazam/Billy Batson

 

Dark Snider (from the anime Bastard!!!)/???? (He never tells who his agent is, and knowing him he might not actually have one and is just messing with the councle. It might be Raven...)

 

Merlin/Jason Blood - Entergin the Demon

 

Nabu/Doctor Fate

 

Clea/Amathess of Gemworld

 

[steriaca]

In case your wondering why Dark Snyder in my example group...all groups need that one glorious bastard character. The one guy the others only let in because they are afraid if what he would do unsupervised. He is also the one to tell the council to eat ship if needed (he would of probably add "and die", but half the members are technically dead already, and Clea is a sentient bunch of magical energy in a living body herself...)

 

Had to change something to be able to get it published...(originally the word wasn't ship...)

Edited May 10, 2023 by steriaca

[KawangaKid]

Zatarra and Zatanna do make sense.

Clea partnered with Amethyst? I think Amethyst might be more powerful that Clea, or is sometimes a force of nature than a person.

The question is -- is Billy Batson still a kid by this time?

[GDShore]

BB is probably an adult now with adult responsibilities, you know a jog/career, relationship maybe kids. A universe of possibilities right there.

[steriaca]

8 hours ago, KawangaKid said:

Zatarra and Zatanna do make sense.

Clea partnered with Amethyst? I think Amethyst might be more powerful that Clea, or is sometimes a force of nature than a person.

The question is -- is Billy Batson still a kid by this time?

Up to you.

[KawangaKid]

On the magic side of things, I would also look at including Tim Hunter (from DC), the Scarlet Witch (Marvel), the Shadow Pact / Justice League Dark crew, and perhaps the occasional Doctor Doom…

[KawangaKid]

REPOSTING a portion of my Campaign Guidelines:

 

Campaign Hook: Knight Watch Red

The PCs start off as plainclothes super-heroes tasked to investigate incidents (involving locations, individuals, and artifacts) of a potentially multiversal nature. If there's potential danger, they are to secure the location, individuals, and artifacts involved, contain multiversal incidents, and protect sentients and the dominant reality.

 

Borrowing from SlyFlourish's Six Truths approach to fantasy rpg campaigns, and applying it to my own (just enough for my players to jump onboard without having to read pages and pages of background), I came up with the following for my super-heroic campaign:

1. The world of Knight Watch Red has a single timeline from WWII to the present involving different ages of super-heroes (from Marvel & DC).
2. Super-heroes and super-villains tend to age normally from their first appearances, and have seen multi-generational legacies across heroic ages.
3. Nations, corporations, and organizations recognize the threats of metahumanity based on battles of super-heroes and super-villains across history.
4. Nations, corporations, and organizations also recognize the value of metahumanity in conflicts against attempts to conquer or destroy the Earth.
5. Organizations like the Justice Society and Checkmate evolved from fighting crime to monitoring, regulating, and cultivating the super-human societies of Earth.
6. Recent anomalous incidents suggest that multiversal incursions are weakening the fabric of reality, and must be contained to safeguard the timeline.

The combination of these Six Truths helped me establish a familiar combined universe, yet one that was also different from the ones in the current comics -- where some heroic and villainous mantles are already on their second or third generations, while others are eternally frozen in time and still hold on to their places despite their aging compatriots. It also allowed me to briefly expound on new elements of a status quo that place Earth in a universe with aliens, but have somehow placed it in a semi-static status quo that does not have an incredibly fertile mutant population with Omega-level threats around each corner, that does not have yet another alien race invading this week / month / year, that does not have hyper-advanced technology in the hands of common folk. But more on this in another post.
 

Of course, I added a Seventh Truth to this set, which was related to the creation of the characters themselves:
 

7. Each PC must be a legacy character. Whether they are related by blood to another hero or villain in the DC or Marvel universe, or they are inspired by one of them, or they have inherited artifacts, knowledge, abilities through various means, they must be tied to an existing character in these universes.
 

The reasons for this last one were: (a) to provide me with a handle on the types of adventures that these created characters would like to engage in; and (b) to allow me to quickly and easily grasp the backstories of these characters -- including whatever time-/science-/space-bending implications their histories and powers might have. It reduced the need for long (and potentially contentious) discussions about histories, NPCs, powers, abilities, enemies and allies through broadstrokes mentions of key figures in the DC/Marvel setting (filtered through the rough timeline and current status quo in my head). Oddly enough, it also curtailed a tendency for my Champions players to come up with the wildest character concepts executed in the most-game breaking way possible -- by giving them a chance to go through favorite character concepts and legacies and an opportunity to put their own stamp on this legacy character.

[steriaca]

16 hours ago, KawangaKid said:

On the magic side of things, I would also look at including Tim Hunter (from DC), the Scarlet Witch (Marvel), the Shadow Pact / Justice League Dark crew, and perhaps the occasional Doctor Doom…

Well the Council is ment to be like the Illuminati of Marvel, but for Magic. Or at least that's the idea.l

[greypaladin_01]

Sounds like a fun premise.  Quick question, based on Rule 2, what is the cut off point for recognizable comic characters?

For example, Superman shows up 1938 and ages normally, the odds of the 90s era Death of Superman story happening are very slim, leading to characters like Steel and Conner Kent Superboy not being in-universe.   Similiar with the X-men the 60s and All-New All-Different teams would be in their 60s to 80s by now which would lead to question connections to even 90s era character like Cable, Gambit and Jubillee.

 

 

[KawangaKid]

5 hours ago, steriaca said:

Well the Council is ment to be like the Illuminati of Marvel, but for Magic. Or at least that's the idea.l

I had thought it to be a combination of the Illuminati and the quintessence in DC. But okay, that would exclude Doom…

[steriaca]

4 hours ago, KawangaKid said:

I had thought it to be a combination of the Illuminati and the quintessence in DC. But okay, that would exclude Doom…

Would it? I honestly don't know of the Quintessence. Who are they?

 

Just made a quick read of them. I can see it.

Edited May 11, 2023 by steriaca

[Lord Liaden]

You have my admiration, KK. I have more than enough trouble trying to untangle the confused jumble that either company has made of their own universe. The thought of trying to weave them together into a coherent whole makes me twitch uncontrollably. 

[KawangaKid]

22 hours ago, greypaladin_01 said:

Sounds like a fun premise.  Quick question, based on Rule 2, what is the cut off point for recognizable comic characters?

For example, Superman shows up 1938 and ages normally, the odds of the 90s era Death of Superman story happening are very slim, leading to characters like Steel and Conner Kent Superboy not being in-universe.   Similiar with the X-men the 60s and All-New All-Different teams would be in their 60s to 80s by now which would lead to question connections to even 90s era character like Cable, Gambit and Jubillee.

 

 

Well, I'm inspired by having a sort of "generations" approach to these things (the two mini-series by John Byrne covering the Superman & Batman families across generations).

There are generations of these heroes as the older ones retire, get lost in the Phantom Zone, are killed, time travel, and so on. I chalk up the costumes as a legacy that gets passed on, but I am trying to side-step some of the questions until the issue becomes critical to the story. In fact, I've just introduced a Golden Age Superman fighting some monsters that invaded from the Phantom Zone...

There is a Superman, Thor, Batman, Captain America in this current setting, but the costumes are different and they may or may not be the same until the players interact with them. Until that time, they're free to speculate with their own preferences based on their knowledge (or lack thereof) of the comics.

8 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

You have my admiration, KK. I have more than enough trouble trying to untangle the confused jumble that either company has made of their own universe. The thought of trying to weave them together into a coherent whole makes me twitch uncontrollably. 

My early attempts at a timeline certainly gave me a headache...

[Lord Liaden]

12 hours ago, KawangaKid said:

Well, I'm inspired by having a sort of "generations" approach to these things (the two mini-series by John Byrne covering the Superman & Batman families across generations).

There are generations of these heroes as the older ones retire, get lost in the Phantom Zone, are killed, time travel, and so on. I chalk up the costumes as a legacy that gets passed on, but I am trying to side-step some of the questions until the issue becomes critical to the story. In fact, I've just introduced a Golden Age Superman fighting some monsters that invaded from the Phantom Zone...

There is a Superman, Thor, Batman, Captain America in this current setting, but the costumes are different and they may or may not be the same until the players interact with them. Until that time, they're free to speculate with their own preferences based on their knowledge (or lack thereof) of the comics.

 

Interestingly, that's exactly what Steve, Darren et al  were doing with the current official Champions Universe. Most characters aged normally, and retired or died. Their children, proteges or admirers took up their super identities. Team rosters changed over the years. The CU has examples of this process going back many decades, even centuries in certain cases.

 

I know if they were still writing CU material on a regular basis, they'd be continuing to update the setting.

[KawangaKid]

On 5/13/2023 at 12:52 AM, Lord Liaden said:

 

Interestingly, that's exactly what Steve, Darren et al  were doing with the current official Champions Universe. Most characters aged normally, and retired or died. Their children, proteges or admirers took up their super identities. Team rosters changed over the years. The CU has examples of this process going back many decades, even centuries in certain cases.

 

I know if they were still writing CU material on a regular basis, they'd be continuing to update the setting.

Ah, I didn't know that. I thought it was more of a static setting (just recently updated) with a really impressive Wold Newton-ish timeline. I really enjoyed the idea of the ubertimeline from dawn of time to far future, with different ages of heroes. I really wish it had found more purchase in the 5th edition.

I also wish that the streamlined version of Champions (Fuzion) had been a bit more polished and accepted.

 

Will share some other items of interest as I get further in my campaign.

01 - https://armchairgamer.blogspot.com/2023/03/champions-one-earth.html [ FIRST POST ]

02 - https://armchairgamer.blogspot.com/2023/05/champions-one-earth-broad-strokes.html [ BROAD STROKES of the CAMPAIGN ]

03 - https://armchairgamer.blogspot.com/2023/05/champions-one-earth-bayport-megacity.html [ SETTING: BAYPORT MEGACITY ]

04 - https://armchairgamer.blogspot.com/2023/05/champions-one-earth-player-characters.html [ CHARACTERS: Part 1 ]

05 - https://armchairgamer.blogspot.com/2023/05/champions-one-earth-player-characters_14.html [ CHARACTERS: Part 2 ]

[Lord Liaden]

13 hours ago, KawangaKid said:

Ah, I didn't know that. I thought it was more of a static setting (just recently updated) with a really impressive Wold Newton-ish timeline. I really enjoyed the idea of the ubertimeline from dawn of time to far future, with different ages of heroes. I really wish it had found more purchase in the 5th edition.

 

 

Since the launch of the 5E CU in 2002, subsequent books would incorporate characters and events written up in preceding published adventures and source books, extending the timeline forward. There was even one book, Champions Universe: News Of The World, devoted to describing the changes to the setting over the years since the new CU debuted, in the style of an in-world chronological narrative. I know Steve and Darren had planned to periodically release new books in the NOTW series.

 

What I learned from their example is that if you're going to build a broad and diverse super universe, you have to start with a coherent yet flexible foundation which can grow organically, but which still maintains an overall direction and vision of what it is and where it's going. Both Marvel and DC have had so many reboots and revisions by this point, not only are their readers confused as to what official continuity is now, the writers for those companies don't seem to know themselves, or perhaps they just don't care.They appear to pull bits they like from one version of the universe while ignoring the rest of it, or change existing precedents with little regard for how that impacts everything else.

 

EDIT: That reminds me of a relevant but rather snarky image I came across on the Internet, about how DC's Supergirl and Power Girl are currently defined. I'll put it within Spoilers because it might be considered borderline NSFW, although personally I think it's pretty harmless in itself.

 

Spoiler

 

Edited May 14, 2023 by Lord Liaden

[KawangaKid]

5 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

Since the launch of the 5E CU in 2002, subsequent books would incorporate characters and events written up in preceding published adventures and source books, extending the timeline forward. There was even one book, Champions Universe: News Of The World, devoted to describing the changes to the setting over the years since the new CU debuted, in the style of an in-world chronological narrative. I know Steve and Darren had planned to periodically release new books in the NOTW series.

 

What I learned from their example is that if you're going to build a broad and diverse super universe, you have to start with a coherent yet flexible foundation which can grow organically, but which still maintains an overall direction and vision of what it is and where it's going. Both Marvel and DC have had so many reboots and revisions by this point, not only are their readers confused as to what official continuity is now, the writers for those companies don't seem to know themselves, or perhaps they just don't care.They appear to pull bits they like from one version of the universe while ignoring the rest of it, or change existing precedents with little regard for how that impacts everything else.

 

EDIT: That reminds me of a relevant but rather snarky image I came across on the Internet, about how DC's Supergirl and Power Girl are currently defined. I'll put it within Spoilers because it might be considered borderline NSFW, although personally I think it's pretty harmless in itself.

 

  Hide contents

 

Well, regarding them, I'm making Power Girl the carrier of the lineage after WWII Superman (as per the original Earth 2). But I am also familiar with the actual history of how Power Girl's chest was originally depicted, and how it -- er -- grew in the telling over the years.

[KawangaKid]

On 5/14/2023 at 1:23 PM, KawangaKid said:

01 - https://armchairgamer.blogspot.com/2023/03/champions-one-earth.html [ FIRST POST ]

02 - https://armchairgamer.blogspot.com/2023/05/champions-one-earth-broad-strokes.html [ BROAD STROKES of the CAMPAIGN ]

03 - https://armchairgamer.blogspot.com/2023/05/champions-one-earth-bayport-megacity.html [ SETTING: BAYPORT MEGACITY ]

04 - https://armchairgamer.blogspot.com/2023/05/champions-one-earth-player-characters.html [ CHARACTERS: Part 1 ]

05 - https://armchairgamer.blogspot.com/2023/05/champions-one-earth-player-characters_14.html [ CHARACTERS: Part 2 ]

06 - https://armchairgamer.blogspot.com/2023/05/champions-one-earth-resonant-storylines.html [ Storylines 01 ]

In which I start listing out the storylines that become part of the history of Champions: One Earth.

[KawangaKid]

On 5/22/2023 at 8:24 AM, KawangaKid said:

06 - https://armchairgamer.blogspot.com/2023/05/champions-one-earth-resonant-storylines.html [ Storylines 01 ]

In which I start listing out the storylines that become part of the history of Champions: One Earth.

 

07 - https://armchairgamer.blogspot.com/2023/05/champions-one-earth-storylines-02.html [ Storylines 02 ]

More storylines, like the nation of Krakoa (cribbed from Powers of X / House of X)

08 - https://armchairgamer.blogspot.com/2023/06/champions-one-earth-adventure-sources-01.html [ Adventures 01 ]

Where I get my adventure ideas and plots, esp. for investigative adventures.

[greypaladin_01]

This continues to be fascinating to see your approach.  Especially pulling in elements from so many sources!

[steriaca]

I didn't know (but not surprised) that DC owns THUNDER Agents now.

[KawangaKid]

4 hours ago, greypaladin_01 said:

This continues to be fascinating to see your approach.  Especially pulling in elements from so many sources!

Thank you!

 

I am trying to share my thought processes because I have benefited from other GMs from other gamers sharing theirs. Every table and every GM is different, but it helps to see what others have done before. Barking Alien (on my blog roll) has also done interesting DC alterverse campaigns, and I’m back reading those now. Seth Skorkowsky explaining on his YouTube channel how he changes certain adventures also spurred me to try converting adventures from genre to genre.

3 hours ago, steriaca said:

I didn't know (but not surprised) that DC owns THUNDER Agents now.

THUNDER agents rights are apparently a touchy subject. Failure to follow IP protocols in early issues put all characters into public domain, apparently. But someone still owns the rights I guess. Maybe the newer (Ish) character designs are an attempt to trademark again.

[steriaca]

DC has a nasty habit of buying old characters from defunct comic book companies and incorporating them into the DC Omniverse. Which is actually a good way to save an obscure but favorite character (The Question, for example).

[KawangaKid]

34 minutes ago, steriaca said:

DC has a nasty habit of buying old characters from defunct comic book companies and incorporating them into the DC Omniverse. Which is actually a good way to save an obscure but favorite character (The Question, for example).

Charlton Comics (though they forgot about Peter Cannon, Thunderbolt apparently and let him lapse), Fawcett for the Marvel family, Milestone Comics, and now these guys. Hope they do more with them!