BobGreenwade Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Okay, so the polls have told us that our "Supplement By Committee," The Ultimate Disadvantage, is to be organized by time of application, with each Disadvantage addressed within each of the three main chapters (Character Creation, Combat, and Campaigning). Now it's time to see what sort of ideas we can come up with, one Disadvantage at a time, starting with Accidental Change. The ideas I can come up with right off the top of my head are these: Expanded notes on the dynamics changing back. The possibility for "partial change" under the right circumstances. Options for defining the extremeness of the change (physical, mental, or both). Any other ideas? (Naturally, for all Disdvantages any clarifications in the FAQ would be included.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost who Walks Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Well, first of all, it can be used to simulate stuff like epileptic siezures and flashbacks. It can also be used to do the mentally unstable, whose psych limitations might change at a moments notice. DC characters of Two-Face and Guy Gardner spring to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Reflexive attackers, or any triggered behavior that is not under the players control. In reality, Accidental Change and Enraged should be merged into 1 Disadvantage IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitz Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Originally posted by Killer Shrike In reality, Accidental Change and Enraged should be merged into 1 Disadvantage IMO. I'd agree with that in general, but if the two were conflated the resulting disad would have to be costed out to allow for [*]behavioural/psychological changes only [*]physical/ability changes only, and [*]both simultaneously [/list=1] Personally, I think Enraged is redundant due to the existence of the Psychological Limitation disad rather than because of Accidental Change. But it definitely is redundant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted January 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Apparently the idea of giving AC options for physical, mental, or both is pretty popular. Epileptic seizures, flashbacks, and such could be discussed in this section; I'll add the idea to the list. They might seem more like a Physical Limitation, but AC has better mechanics for handling it. I think let's discuss whether to roll Enranged into another Disadvantage (including this one) when the time comes to cover that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintQuakko Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Hmm, how about a performer who can't resist the urge to perform (he starts using his routine voice, or whatnot). I'm not sure, maybe I'm just using it wrong, and I'm really describing a psych disad. I'm just trying to describe how people can seem to have two different personalities; one for on stage, and one for off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Ive used Accidental Change in conjunction w/ Multiform that had the -1 version of No Conscious Control (which I called "Random") to set change conditions on each form. Generally, Ive also used Accidental Change as a sort of Evil Twin to Trigger. Any kind of catch-state can be set up w/ Accidental Change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Originally posted by SaintQuakko Hmm, how about a performer who can't resist the urge to perform (he starts using his routine voice, or whatnot). I'm not sure, maybe I'm just using it wrong, and I'm really describing a psych disad. I'm just trying to describe how people can seem to have two different personalities; one for on stage, and one for off. My dad was a radio personality, and I was around a lot of performers when I grew up (some of my earliest memories are as a toddler back stage during concerts in the late 70's -- maybe that's got something to do with why Im so messed up? ). Anyhoo, back to the point, almost all performers that I was around could turn their stage persona's "on" and "off" at will. I cant really think of anyone that would reflexively kick into a persona, although you could certainly use Accidental Change to build a character that did just that -- you could define a seperate conceptual "mental state", take powers/abilities w/ a -1/4 limitation "Only Usable In [Mental State]" similar to OIHID, and then define an Accidental Change into that Mental State with a defined recovery as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintQuakko Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Originally posted by Killer Shrike you could define a seperate conceptual "mental state", take powers/abilities w/ a -1/4 limitation "Only Usable In [Mental State]" similar to OIHID, and then define an Accidental Change into that Mental State with a defined recovery as well. But would you have to put in powers like that? Or could it just be a personality shift? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Originally posted by SaintQuakko But would you have to put in powers like that? Or could it just be a personality shift? Well, if it were only a Roleplaying thing and had no real game effect, then sure it could just be a personality shift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarf Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Originally posted by Killer Shrike Reflexive attackers, or any triggered behavior that is not under the players control. In reality, Accidental Change and Enraged should be merged into 1 Disadvantage IMO. I feel the opposite way. It's good to have generic catch-all disadvantages like Physical Limitation in the core rulebook, but in a supplement, I'd like to see those divided or spun off into more specific disadvantages with clearly specified game effects, similar to what Enraged is to Psychological Limitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Originally posted by Snarf I feel the opposite way. It's good to have generic catch-all disadvantages like Physical Limitation in the core rulebook, but in a supplement, I'd like to see those divided or spun off into more specific disadvantages with clearly specified game effects, similar to what Enraged is to Psychological Limitation. I see Enraged as an Accidental Change to an Angry State. They have almost the same mechanic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintQuakko Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Originally posted by Snarf I feel the opposite way. It's good to have generic catch-all disadvantages like Physical Limitation in the core rulebook, but in a supplement, I'd like to see those divided or spun off into more specific disadvantages with clearly specified game effects, similar to what Enraged is to Psychological Limitation. Hmm, to take it a step further, I'd like to see an UNTIL style take on disadvantages... whole groups of disadvantages already thought out and ready for minor tweakage. It's much easier to get good ideas when you can look over a bunch of other good ideas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarf Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 UNTIL style would be awesome. Some disadvantage builds could be common, useful stuff and others could be clever stuff that uses the rules in unexpected ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted January 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Originally posted by SaintQuakko Hmm, to take it a step further, I'd like to see an UNTIL style take on disadvantages... whole groups of disadvantages already thought out and ready for minor tweakage. It's much easier to get good ideas when you can look over a bunch of other good ideas... I haven't seen UNTIL so I don't really know, but I assume you mean by this a list of pre-fab Disadvantages -- which I'd consider a natural. Whether to put it in Chapter One or a separate Chapter Four would be the subject of a poll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost who Walks Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 Originally posted by SaintQuakko Hmm, to take it a step further, I'd like to see an UNTIL style take on disadvantages... whole groups of disadvantages already thought out and ready for minor tweakage. It's much easier to get good ideas when you can look over a bunch of other good ideas... http://www.devermore.net/surbrook/herosource/newdisads.html Like this? (I use a modified version of it) Haven't seen UNTIL yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Originally posted by BobGreenwade I haven't seen UNTIL so I don't really know, but I assume you mean by this a list of pre-fab Disadvantages -- which I'd consider a natural. Whether to put it in Chapter One or a separate Chapter Four would be the subject of a poll. I'd rather see it as a fourth section to each chapter - sample psych lim's in the psych lim chapter, sample phys lim's in the phys lim chapter. And a solid index, probably separate from the main index, of sample disad's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengal Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Accidental Change is a good choice for Trigger's Evil Twin. I think it works perfectly to emulate Multiple Man's (Marvel) need to take damage in order to produce a dupe. Of course over time he refined the power, but I think he still produces a dupe whenever he takes PD BODY damage, or however you want to say it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted January 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Originally posted by Hugh Neilson I'd rather see it as a fourth section to each chapter - sample psych lim's in the psych lim chapter, sample phys lim's in the phys lim chapter. And a solid index, probably separate from the main index, of sample disad's. There's no "Psych Lim" or "Phys Lim" chapter. The chapters, per the poll will be: Chapter One - Character Creation Chapter Two - Combat Chapter Three - Campaigning Then each Disadvantage is discussed from that perspective. I'll post a poll later (probably some time Tuesday) to decide whether samples should be listed in Chapter One or a separate Chapter Four. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Originally posted by BobGreenwade There's no "Psych Lim" or "Phys Lim" chapter. The chapters, per the poll will be: Chapter One - Character Creation Chapter Two - Combat Chapter Three - Campaigning Then each Disadvantage is discussed from that perspective. I'll post a poll later (probably some time Tuesday) to decide whether samples should be listed in Chapter One or a separate Chapter Four. Sorry - I had it the other way round in my head (one chapter per disad with Creation; Combat; Capmpaigning sections). Hmmm...design by comittee wouldn't really be complete if we don't scrap and redesign at least once in the process, would it? Under the present model, I'd put the exaples at the end of each disad's section in Character Creation (creation is where we reaslly need examples anyway). We can then return to these examples as needed for illustrative purposes in the later chapters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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