Combat Luck vs. Armour -- is there a real difference?

[Fitz]

I've recently been playing a character with Combat Luck, and I'm wondering what the point is of including it as a separate power from Armour. As far as I can tell from the write-up, it's basically just a special effect for invisible armour.

 

What am I missing here?

[Metaphysician]

Three reasons.

 

1. Including it as a Talent makes it available to non-superhuman characters.

 

2. It isn't a mere special effect; it has the "luck-based" disadvantage, indicating that their are several circumstances wherein it doesn't apply. If you are asleep, for instance, or throwing yourself in the way of an attack deliberately.

 

3. Its a mechanic that probably wouldn't be obvious, or obviously balanced, were it not in the BBB.

[Trebuchet]

As a player with a character who has literally 50% of her defenses as Combat Luck, I can tell you there is a tremendous difference. Combat Luck doesn't protect you from Damage Shields (per the FAQ), or when you're sleeping, or quite possibly even when you're not in combat (Such as caught by surprise). It makes more sense for certain character concepts, but it's hard to argue that by most definitions Armor is superior. While Combat Luck is Hardened, most characters who use it in place of Armor and/or FF don't have enough defenses for Hardened to matter. With only 12 total PD, reducing my character's defenses with an AP or PEN attack is nearly irrelevant. She's gonna get hurt anyway.

[yamamura]

Also Combat Luck doesn't protect when you throw yourself in the way of an attack to protect someone else. Neither does it protect you on move through or move by.

 

G

[keithcurtis]

For those playing at the mere heroic level, Combat Luck is non-encumbering. It also works at the opera or at the beach...

 

Keith "Wonders what Combat Unluck might be" Curtis

[Vondy]

the difference comes in with the "luck based" and "non-persistent"

 

If the character dives in front of an attack, or stupidly states they aren't taking evasive action: no combat luck.

 

If the character is sleeping or unconscious: no combat luck.

 

If the character is being held, or is non-combat and the situation seems not to warrant it: no combat luck.

 

It's useful, but it has definate limitations.

[Trebuchet]

I guess the most conclusive proof is that I've never seen a brick built with Combat Luck. Bricks with Armor are a dime a dozen.

[Killer Shrike]

The most important difference IMO is that since its non-Persistent, getting Staggered is quite possibly "THE END" for a character relying on CL.

 

I also House Ruled that CL does not work vs AoE's that completely engulf the character unless they basically Dive For Cover to at least try to get out of it, but that may not be relevant for you.

[Fitz]

See, now THIS is why skimming the rules and then relying on HD for character building is a BAD THING If I was stuck back in Ye Olde Dayes of Penne and Papre, I'd actually be paying attention to what it says in the Book.

 

As it turns out (after reading the descriptions properly this time) I should have been using Armour, properly modified, and not Combat Luck at all. The concept was that of a Buddhist monk of such purity of spirit that the cosmos reaches out to protect him from malicious purposeful attacks, even if he's fast asleep or otherwise unaware; I pictured it as working a little like those slapstick movies in which the main character bends to pick up a flower at exactly the same time the Evil Villain takes a sneaky swipe at him with a baseball bat. In this instance, the defence doesn't work against accidental damage (like a hammer dropped accidentally from a scaffold), or against "natural" attacks, such as being atttacked by a hungry tiger which wants, naturally enough, to eat him.

 

In fact, looking at it yet again, it should probably just have been bought as CSL adding to DCV, maybe as a Limited Power or just as NCC. Maybe with a low-level unconscious Danger Sense to make the DCV usable when attacked by surprise?

 

I could rebuild old characters forever

[keithcurtis]

Originally posted by Trebuchet

I guess the most conclusive proof is that I've never seen a brick built with Combat Luck. Bricks with Armor are a dime a dozen.

 

Bricks are tough naturaly. They don't need the protection of luck (limited script immunity). CL is for the brick's companions. Colossus has armor; Cyclops has Combat Luck. Scott never seems to get hit for lethal damage, while poeple drop loaded fuel trucks on Piotr like he had "Please immolate me" written on his XXXL T-Shirt.

 

Actually, I see it as more of a heroic level talent anyway. It's a way of keeping the heroes alive without them having to wear armor wherever they go. After all, heroes on TV and movies rarely wear more than the equivalent of a leather jacket.

 

In my Savage Earth campaign, which is Sword and Sorcery in its style, I try to downplay the usefulness of armor as a genre thing. I double armor encumbrance (the campaign area is equatorial), and don't allow Combat Luck to stack with normal Armor. I also allow the better of the two defenses versus mooks, but only real armor versus "name" villains. When my players put on armor, they mean business.

 

Keith "John Carter never wore armor" Curtis

[Trebuchet]

Originally posted by Fitz

See, now THIS is why skimming the rules and then relying on HD for character building is a BAD THING If I was stuck back in Ye Olde Dayes of Penne and Papre, I'd actually be paying attention to what it says in the Book.

 

In fact, looking at it yet again, it should probably just have been bought as CSL adding to DCV, maybe as a Limited Power or just as NCC. Maybe with a low-level unconscious Danger Sense to make the DCV usable when attacked by surprise?

 

I could rebuild old characters forever

If you buy Defense Maneuver I-IV for 10 points, CSLs can be permanently left to improve DCV. However, I think Combat Luck is not a bad option for simulating what you are describing. Either that, or just buy your monk's PD up a bit more and make it all fully Resistant. Since Armor costs no END, there's no reason it needs to be visible. I see absolutely nothing wrong with PD/ED (or Armor for that matter) defined as "Favored by the Gods."

 

And I rework characters all the time too. (I'll usually have a version or two labeled "Experimental." Evil, evil Hero Designer!

[Metaphysician]

Yeah. For example, someone like Vash the Stampede would have luck-based resistant defense that has no luck-based disadvantage on it, since it works all the time.

[BoneDaddy]

curiosity - what do y'all and you'uns think of combining combat luck with combat sense and danger sense? Hedging one's bets, I know, and not as cheap as just buying some darn armor, but would it work? It doesn't cancel out the inherent disadvantages of combat luck, but it does mitigate thema a little

[Pegasus]

Originally posted by BoneDaddy

curiosity - what do y'all and you'uns think of combining combat luck with combat sense and danger sense? Hedging one's bets, I know, and not as cheap as just buying some darn armor, but would it work? It doesn't cancel out the inherent disadvantages of combat luck, but it does mitigate thema a little

 

I always like to use danger sense, but not combat sense. It’s a must to simulate fantastic, supernatural luck. DCV (or other defenses) that require a danger sense roll are particularly fitting. BTW, I love the new defense maneuver level IV plus DCV levels. It’s much more elegant than a kludged unconscious/always-on missile deflection thingy.

 

In my opinion, a truly powerful luckster just doesn’t get hit (which in Champs is darn near impossible) but they can still be hurt. Combat luck works pretty well. Great situation where combat luck means nothing: strapped to the evil scientist’s gurney (pat. pending) as he injects you with his evil experimental formula, Mutato 84©. Armor means he needs a diamond tipped drill to inject anything.

 

I love working out new luck powers. Probably because I’ve never created a luckster that I was truly happy with. Such is the nature of such a chaotic SFX, I suppose.

[BoneDaddy]

Crisis, I tend to agree, ut I'm noodling with Barabas, either the luckiest or unluckiest man to ever live, depending on your perspective.