PS question?

[Hisho]

profession skill, short question: Is it allowed to go with PS : Thief. I thought about it and until now haven't seen anything that would say something against this idea (maybe I have overread something ? )

 

I'm a little bit puzzled because this would mean I could buy PS : Thief for my thief character, he would know all about lockpicking, trading stolen goods and so one but wouldn't this be a rule violation.

 

I'm new to HERO and i trying to do my first character at the moment.

[Fuzzy Gnome]

The broader the skill, the less the character knows about any one aspect.

If Fred has PS: Thief 13- and Chuck has PS: Stolen goods disposal 13- then Chuck knows as much about selling hot loot as Fred does about all aspects of thieving put together.

Usually the guy with PS: Thief takes a penalty to his roll to do something exacting (like finding the best possible price for his goods) while the expert in that area doesn't.

[yamamura]

I would say being a thief requires you to buy KS: Thief to know secrets if in a guild or at the oustide to know the slang. As for PS, I would say drop it and go with Lock Picking, Streetwise and any other skills based on the genre you playing in. I can't right off hand even say what having PS: Thief would do for ya if you have all the other needful skills to be one.

 

G

[SirViss]

I have problems with the PS skills myself, but I don't think that it would necessarily do what you think. It won't give you skills that have their own entry in FRed. It might be a Complementary Skill for a few skills that Thieves often use, like using Streetwise to find a Fence, or maybe Perception rolls when casing a house, or looking for a hidden safe.

 

I think a lot of PS skills are used more oftern for Complementary Skill rolls than anything else. It can represent the fact that the character is better at skills often associated with his profession when they are used specifically in the execution of said profession.

[Hisho]

Oh, thanks... I try to make a standart, nearly stereotypical Thief for fantasy hero... only to find out how the system works. Now i will make it PS: trading stolen goods and take lockpicking

[KA.]

Originally posted by Hisho

Oh, thanks... I try to make a standart, nearly stereotypical Thief for fantasy hero... only to find out how the system works. Now i will make it PS: trading stolen goods and take lockpicking

 

Hisho,

The other posters have said it pretty well, but I will try to fill in a few more details. I have been playing Hero (Champions) since around 1982, so I have a pretty good grasp of the concepts.

 

Professional Skills do not cover the actual game mechanics of a profession, they cover the other aspects of using that Profession to make a living.

 

For Example: To create a Doctor.

I am going to give every skill a Doctor might have,

this doesn't mean they must have all these skills.

 

Conversation - To get a patient to discuss all their symptoms, even when they might be embarrassing.

Deduction - To diagnose a patient based on incomplete information.

Forensic Medicine - Even though real Doctors may not know that much about this, fictional Doctors always seem to have some ability in this area.

Paramedics - Again, while every Doctor in the real world might not be an expert in this, in fiction, every Doctor can do a good job at keeping people alive.

Science Skills - A competent Doctor would have several of these, covering Pharmacology, Human Anatomy, etc.

 

So, what would you get out of Professional Skill: Doctor?

The other things you need to know to actually be a Doctor.

How to fill out a death certificate.

How to write a legal prescription.

How to leave patient orders with a nurse.

How to order diagnostic tests.

How to fill out insurance forms.

 

All the day-to-day things a Doctor does, that do not relate directly to other skills.

 

In the case of your Thief, you would probably want:

Lockpicking

and

PS: Thief (I would allow that to work for things like "Selling Stolen Goods", because that is part of the knowledge of a Professional Thief, and there is not another skill that covers it)

 

However, depending on what kind of thief you want to be, there are many skills you could choose.

 

If you want to be the kind of thief that breaks into buildings and steals things you would want:

Acrobatics

Breakfall

Climbing

Concealment (To find hidden things, secret rooms, concealed safes, etc.)

Contortionist (To fit into drain pipes, air ducts, hide under beds, etc.)

Security Systems (For Traps, Alarms, etc.)

Stealth (To Sneak into and out of places unnoticed)

 

If you are the kind of thief who steals by deception and fraud (A Con Man), you would have a completely different set of skills.

Acting (To impersonate a bank manager or government official)

Bribery (To get people to either help you or "look the other way" when you are doing something in "public")

Bureaucratics (To deal with people in power on their own terms in order to get what you want.)

Computer Programming (In a modern setting)

Conversation (To talk people out of information without alarming them.)

Disguise (To cover your identity, or pretend to be someone else.)

Forgery (If you use Forgery, but still handy just for pretending to be someone else.)

Lipreading (What a great way to find out where the jewels are hidden. Just hang around and watch, and wait until someone mentions it. They will never even realize you know.)

Mimicry (To impersonate people, or just for a distraction.)

Oratory (If you want to do really big scams like pyramid schemes.)

Persuasion (Helps you convince people of things and tell convincing lies.)

Seduction (If you want to be the "Kissing Bandit" kind of thief, stealing a nobleman's jewels by getting his wife to hand them over to you.)

Trading (To get the most out of your ill-gotten loot.)

 

Now, please don't think that you have to buy all these things for every thief. But the beauty of the Hero system is that you can create EXACTLY the kind of character you want, from a tough guy who mugs people in alleys, to the most sophisticated con man. And, it is perfectly normal for a character to start with only a few skills, and gain more as they grow. Most real mobsters don't start out with the full range of skills that a Mafia Boss would have, you grow into that position, gaining skills and experience as you go.

 

Hope this helps, and wasn't too boring.

 

KA.

[Snarf]

Thieves should probably also have the skills Stealth, Concealment, and Climbing, depending on the setting. The Trading skill covers selling goods. Combine that with a complementary skill roll of Streetwise for selling stolen goods.

 

Thieving is so built into the game that there's already existing skills to cover every part of it. You don't really have to use PS at all.

 

You should consider buying Fantasy Hero, it has lots of information about how to do stuff like this.

[TheEmerged]

Originally posted by Snarf

Thieving is so built into the game that there's already existing skills to cover every part of it. You don't really have to use PS at all.

 

But it could still prove useful if the GM wants it to

[Farkling]

PS: Thief uses;

 

Paying Guild Dues on time

Accessing Guild records

Awareness of whose turf you are on (also a Streetwise thing)

Getting support from the guild

Knowing where to fence things (also sort of a Streetwise thing)

Legends of the local treasures (also a covered by other skills)

Casing a place

Knowing if the guards may be bribeable.

Purchasing thieves equipment

Boltholes

Taverns to recruit chep muscle

Who NOT to rob in town

 

And myriad other uses. Much of what is above overlaps into other skills. PS: Thief AND those skills usually ensures in my game that you only have to roll on one of them.

 

But I play a lot of Exalted, and that has coloured my perceptiuons.

[dugfromthearth]

let me try to explain PS skills

 

John is a locksmith. He learned how to pick locks at a trade school. He buys lockpicking skill.

 

James is a thief. He climbs into people's homes, steals stuff, and sells it to a fence. He has done this for awhile. James may have lockpick skill, or he may just break windows. Assume over time he learned to pick locks. So he has PS: thief, and lockpick skill

 

 

Now when it comes to looking for a place to rob, James can use his PS to check for which one is easiest. His PS will cover things like checking for amount of light, dogs, etc. When he gets into the house, he could roll PS to look for stuff to steal - jewlery in drawers, etc. Both where to find valuables, and what could easily be fenced. Then once he has the stuff he can use PS to contact a fence and sell the goods.

 

If there is a safe in the house, each could make a lockpick roll to pick it.

 

 

 

[Hisho]

Again thanks for the good ideas and explanations, well I have to get into the system first. I and a friend, one of my gaming group are going to make some simple characters and try out combat next...

[Farkling]

SomeBody (but I forget who!) posted a really good combat example months ago. I bet you could find it in the archives if you did a search. Try "hero combat example"

[Snarf]

But it could still prove useful if the GM wants it to

Yeah, that's one of those areas where the GM is sort of allowed to create the game system. It's a bit confusing for new players, but you really see why it's a good idea when you try to make your own campaign settings.

 

I like to use PSs for when players want to know some information (practical information that's not as abstract as a knowledge skill) and other skills for the actual excercise of thievery. Usually the professional skill would automatically entitle them to the information, but I might make them roll for something really obscure and useful. Anytime they convince me that their general PS experience applies to a situation I'd let them use it for a complementary roll.

[TheEmerged]

RE: Line between PS and KS. Personally, I've always judged the line using a personal experience -- my late father and late uncle Otto and their chess playing hobby.

 

Otto was clearly the better raw chess player -- he had the higher PS: Chess of the two. However, he hadn't really studied the "formal" game; he couldn't tell you what Ruy Lopez was, for example. My father on the other hand studied the game with a fair degree of intensity, not only knowing what Ruy Lopez was but all its variants, primary defenses, etc. So my father had both the PS:Chess and KS:Chess, and as a result could compete against Otto despite a wide gap in their actual skill.

 

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Actually, I feel it is my job as GM to make sure skills (especially non-combat ones) matter. I try to operate more from the perspective of giving bonuses for having the "extra" skills instead of penalizing for not having "enough" skills, though.

[Bengal]

I think if you take a PS skill, it means you've been employed in a particular profession- not that you are any good at it. If you want to be good at it, take the skills that would make you good at that profession.

[Snarf]

Originally posted by Bengal

I think if you take a PS skill, it means you've been employed in a particular profession- not that you are any good at it. If you want to be good at it, take the skills that would make you good at that profession.

The problem with that is that many less adventurous professions have no other skills related to them. For instance, here's nothing else that could represent being a painter except raw IQ rolls or something like that.