Naked Modifiers

[Guest Kolava]

I've read the passage more then once, but I still don't understand precisely what these are and how they work. Are they bought as powers by themselves that can link to any other power? Or are they some sort of complex scheme for adding modifiers onto modifiers? I'm lost

[Richard Logue]

I'm not sure if I completely grasp the concept myself, but I use a Naked Modifier to modify Characteristics. For example, a character might have a deadly finger poke attack. You purchase Naked Modifier Armor Piercing for X amount of Strength. X, of course is the amount of Strength Captain Finger has. So with Naked Modifier, you can figure out how much the Armor Piercing will cost.

 

If there are other uses for Nekkid Modifier, I'd like to know as well.

[Killer Shrike]

Naked modifiers prevent needing a practice from 4th Edition where you would have Partially Limited Advantages.

 

So, you might have an attack which is also AP but only on an Activation Roll of 14-

 

To calc it was a pain, something like this:

 

2d6 EB = 10 base cost

(AP +1/2 = +5 pts; Activation 14- (-1/2)) = + 3

 

so 2d6 EB that is AP (Act14-) costs 13 points.

 

Thats a simple example -- it could get quite complex.

 

Now in 5th you MUST use all the modifiers on a Power when you use that Power and you cant partially limit advantages in conjunction with this.

 

Thats where Naked Power Modifiers come in.

 

In this case you would have 2 Powers:

 

2d6 EB = 10 pts

and

Naked Armor Piercing on up to 10 Active Points of Energy Blast(Act 14-) = 3 points

 

Naked Modifiers cost END, and dont have to be used.

 

You can also do some other tricks with them, and dont have to apply limits to them either, including things like:

 

Variable Advantage on up to 60 STR; Must Take +1/2, Limited List (Explosion, AoE: 1 hex, 0 END, Penetrating); +3/4 = +45 points (4 END unless 0 END is selected)

 

or

 

Variable Advantage on up to 60 STR; Must Take +1/2, Limited List (Explosion, AoE: 1 hex, 0 END, Penetrating); +3/4 ; 1/2 DCV Concentration (-1/4) = +36 points (4 END unless 0 END is selected)

[Guest Kolava]

Thank you, I understand now.

 

But what if you wanted to buy it for more then one power? For example, a 0 END (only when concentrating 0 DCV) for several mental powers. Is there any simple way of doing this, or do you need a naked modifier for each?

[bjbrown]

As I understand it, you can apply a Naked Advantage to any Power, as long as you paid enough points for the Naked Advantage.

 

So, if you buy 30 points of Armor Piercing as a Naked Advantage, you can apply it to any power of up to 60 active points (but only one power at a time).

 

I suppose you could do the same thing with Concentration as its own power. The cost would be based on the most expensive (in terms of active points) power with which you could use it. You wouldn't need to buy it more than once, unless you would need to have it for two powers at once.

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by Kolava

Thank you, I understand now.

 

But what if you wanted to buy it for more then one power? For example, a 0 END (only when concentrating 0 DCV) for several mental powers. Is there any simple way of doing this, or do you need a naked modifier for each?

 

According to the FAQ, there are two ways to buy Naked Advantages.

 

If you wish to apply the Advantage only to a single Power, you'd figure the point cost that the Advantage would add to the Base Points of the Power if it was applied normally, then enter that number of points on your character sheet as a separate Power.

 

If you want the Naked Advantage to apply to a group of related Powers (say, an Armor Piercing Advantage that a character can apply to any RKA gun that he uses), you would calculate the points for the NA using the Active Points of the largest Power you want it to apply to, including any other Advantages, as the Base Points. For example, if your largest gun Power was a 2D6 RKA pistol (30 Base Points) with a +1 STUN Multiplier (+1/4 Advantage, or 7 points), the Naked Advantage would be applied to 37 points instead of 30.

 

In either case, any other Advantage or Limitation that you would like to apply only to the Naked Advantage (such as Reduced Endurance or Focus) would be applied to the points in the NA as Base Points, as though it were a separate Power.

 

If that's not clear, please feel free to post followup questions.

[Guest Kolava]

Thank you, its really making sense now.

 

Here's an example, to see if I am doing this right.

 

Magic Bolt - EB 5d6 25

Magic Barrier - Force Field 5/10 15

Magic Wind - Telekinesis 10 30

Magic Wand - Reduced END: 0, OAF 10

 

The Naked END advantage uses the highest power (30 for the TK) to determine its cost; the cost is then modified by the OAF on the naked modifier?

 

If this is correct, what about adjustment powers? What if someone Aids the mage's Magic Bolt up to 10d6? Do they pay 2 END when using it at full power (50 AP, and the naked modifier only covers 30?)

[Snarf]

Originally posted by Kolava

If this is correct, what about adjustment powers? What if someone Aids the mage's Magic Bolt up to 10d6? Do they pay 2 END when using it at full power (50 AP, and the naked modifier only covers 30?) [/b]

I think you can't apply it all to a power that's too big, but maybe you could voluntarily use the power at reduced APs to get it under the naked modifier's maximum. There's not a lot of firm rules for naked modifiers, so most questions like these are decided by a GM ruling based on common and dramatic sense.

 

I made up a house rule that my players have to buy varying effect for naked modifiers, like an adjustment power, because in the basic rule there's no extra cost for how many powers a naked modifier can apply to.

 

base cost: the modifier can apply to one power.

+1/4: the modifier can apply to any power of a given special effect, one at a time.

+1/2: the modifier can apply to two powers of a given special effect.

and so on.

[ghost-angel]

From my understanding you could apply the Naked Modifier to any power which qualified for the advantage to begin with, as long as the active cost was equal to what the Naked Modifiers Active Cost would be if applied to that power.

 

I don't think that made sense. Let me illustrate.

 

My character turns Invisible to Everything. But, that's for the character, not for any attacks. Now, I want to extend that invisiblity to objects I'm using (weapons for example). Instead of buying Invisible Power Effects for everything, especially since I want to be able to use it on any gun I pick up, I buy a Naked Modifier of IPE.

 

If the IPE(fully) has a cost of 50 Active Points .. that means I could apply it to any power with 50 Active points or less. the Active Points of a NM = the Active Points to which it can be applied.

 

Think of NM as a kind of adjustment power - they adjust whatever power you apply them to "take on" the advantage which you bought as a NM.

 

It's also a great way to simulate Rounds for a gun or bow or anything else using ammo.

 

Explosive Rounds Clip = Naked Modifier on "Explosion" with charges equal to number of bullets.

Hollow Point Clip = Naked Modifier on "Penetrating" with charges ...

etc..

 

This way Mr. Archer can buy one bow (say a 1D6 RKA) and lots of arrows:

 

Six Explosion Arrows is NM "Explosion" with six charges that he can apply to his 1D6 RKA Bow. But if he just want to use normal arrows he doesn't apply the Explosion Arrow Naked Modifier. It's a better way to simulate things like that than trying to buy Variable Advantage or the same bow over and over again.

[Guest Kolava]

But if what you say, ghost angel, is true, then a 50 point max naked modifier for "affects physical world" costs the same as the naked modifier for "reduced END: 1/2": 50 points. That can't be right...it should be 100 and 12.5, respectively, right?

[bjbrown]

A 50-point IPE (all sense groups) Naked Advantage could be used with any one power of up to 50 active points. A 50-pt. Reduced END: Zero Naked Advantage could be used on any one power up to 100 active points.

 

It's based on how many points the advantage would cost if actually bought with the power.

 

Naked Advantage Cost = (Max. Power Active Points x Advantage Multiplier)

 

So if you wanted IPE (all senses) (+1) to be used with any power of up to 50 active points:

 

50 = (50 x 1)

 

If you wanted Reduced END: Zero (+½) to be used with any power of up to 50 active points:

 

25 = (50 x ½)

[ghost-angel]

Since a Naked Advantage becomes a Full Power in its own right, the cost and the Active Point are not always the same.

 

The cost is based off of the value of the advantage if it were applied normally and the active cost of the power you want to apply it to.

 

The Active Cost of a Naked Modifier Power will equal the maximum Active Cost to which is can be applied.

 

Naked Modifiers do not always have inherently matching Active and Real Costs.

 

So yes, a 50 Active Point "Affects Real World" Modifier Power will cost 100 Real Points. and a 50 Active Point "Reduced END: 1/2 END" Modifier Power will cost 12 Real Points (12.5 w/o rounding). They are both still 50 Active Point Powers for the purposes of Drains, Transfers, Dispels, Suppresion and the like, or for calculating any advantages or limitations you want to apply to the Modifer Power. And they can both only be applied to 50 Active Point Powers, such as a 10D6 EB.

 

I hope that makes more sense.

[Guest Kolava]

Alright. Just one more thing: What balances NPAs? They seem to offer a lot of point discount and versitility, almost to the point where there's no longer any reason to buy normal advantages anymore. Is this right, or am I missing an inherent limiting factor?

[ghost-angel]

GM Approval. Special Effects Justification.

 

They are rather powerful powers and how they are handled is difinitely up to the GM.

 

Some options to limit them:

1. Can only be used on powers you paid for. (will work for most cases)

2. Must define exactly what power(s) it works on when bought: Only RKAs defined as guns (clip of armor piercing rounds), Only certain Movement powers (Megascale on Spaceship Engines), something like that.

3. Only works for one specific power (the most limiting). This way a character can fire off the Exlopsion EB or the Normal EB, their choice.

 

The application of NM is way into GM Discretion Land, I'd say act like it has a Yield Sign and a Pair of Stop Signs on it. Take a careful look at what the special effect of the NM itself is and how the character wants to apply it within the concept of what they do.

[bjbrown]

There's no real inherent limitation to it. The FAQ (under the general section on Advantages) suggests the GM not allow it except for very good reason. If you haven't read the FAQ yet, it's probably worthwhile to take a look at it. The first post by ghost angel has a few good examples of when a Naked Advantage might be proper, because all of the examples are situations in which it would be difficult or impossible to simulate the desired effect any other way.

 

The one inherent limitation is that you can only use it on one power at a time. So you couldn't, for example, use a Naked Reduced END: 0 advantage on both a Force Field and an Energy Blast in the same phase- you have to choose one or the other.

[Lord Liaden]

Well, there are a couple of factors to consider: One, a Naked Advantage is not supposed to be allowed just whenever a player wants one. There should be a reason why it's not directly applied to the Power it modifies - for example, if the NA has Modifiers of its own separate from the Power it affects, such as a Focus Limitation; or if there's a reason why the NA would only apply sometimes, like Area of Effect for Strength on a Growing character which only applies when he's Grown.

 

Secondly, an Advantage added normally to a base Power increases the Active Points in the Power vs. Drain, Suppress, Dispel, as well as the points in Defense for a Focus. A Naked Advantage has only its own Active Point total to resist all those things.

[Guest Kolava]

Excellent, I'm fully versed in NPAs now. Though one question never got a firm answer: do NPAs that apply to many powers cost more then single power NPAs, and, if so, how much more?

[ghost-angel]

NPAs can affect as many different powers as your GM will allow you to get away with. One at a time only. No extra cost for an NPA to affect Flight and Growth for example, but the character can only apply it to one or the other when activated. No splitting either.

[Blue Jogger]

Originally posted by Kolava

Excellent, I'm fully versed in NPAs now. Though one question never got a firm answer: do NPAs that apply to many powers cost more then single power NPAs, and, if so, how much more?

 

Yes, it general costs more to have a NPA that applies to batch of powers than just one. This is because "many powers" are defined only by the upper limit (say 60 Active Points) which may includes advantages. So you could end up paying for putting an advantage on another advantage. Note that in this case NPAs, Costs END, is Instant, and Non-Persistant unless additional advantages are applied to the NPA (even if the "many powers" are all Continous, 0 END, or Persistant in nature).

 

Now, for a specific power, you basically pay the difference of the real cost of having the power with the new advantage and subtract the real cost of original power.

[Guest Kolava]

Ok, but you didn't really answer the question.

 

Is the price of my magic wand, listed above, correct? Considering that it applies to three powers when it could apply to one, five or twenty, shouldn't its price change?

 

Edit: Missed Ghost Angel's reply, but I still wonder why the price doesn't change.

[Blue Jogger]

Nope, it applies to all applicable powers. The cost is the same whether it is 5 or 20. If it is just one power, it can be cheaper because it is affecting a specific power and not some "group of powers".

 

In your specific example, the 0 END cost NPA needs to be Continuous (because Force Field and Telekinesis are Continuous) and you need to add 0 END cost to the wand (unless using the wand works off of an End Reserve or Charges or something).

 

15 Base Points (For 0 END on 30 Points), +1 Continuous, +1/2 0 END Cost

15*2.5 = 37 Active Points

-1 OAF - Magic Wand

18 Real Points

 

Now, what if it was 0 END on just one power. Say the Force Field.

That would be 7 Active Points, w/OAF, 3 Real Points. Because it is just that one power, it does not need the 0 END or Continuous. (It's really a Partially Limited Power if you have played 4th Edition.)

 

Is this confusing? Yes, it is. The first is an example of a Metapower or a power that affects other powers. The second is an example of a Partially Limited Power.