Reactive Abilities

[TrickstaPriest]

Okay, this one has been troubling me for a while now, because it's potentially very powerful but also very awkward. I have several campaign settings that I am importing into HERO, but I have some characters who have very peculiar powers that don't fit well with the HERO system. One prominent theme is "Reactive Powers", as they are rather hard to do. Trigger seemed like a good idea at first, but the problem with it is that it needs to be set first. The powers are usually Instant, though a few are Constant, and usually can be turned on and off manually in addition to being "reactive."

 

One example of this is an energy surge a character uses throughout their body, destroying any foreign powers in them. This is basically a Dispel with Personal Immunity and Self Only, but it activates in one of two ways. The first is when they are Paralyzed, Mind Controlled, or otherwise rendered incapable of controlling their power, the "floodgates open" as it were and it sends it through themselves. However, they can also opt to use the power manually, sending it through themselves to get rid of annoying minor effects. It uses up END, but since it can be activated many times in a fight, it cannot be "set" by means of a Trigger. Furthermore, even when it is "manually" used, it doesn't require much concentration. The character could activate it and attack an opponent in the same Phase. There is another one just like this for Healing, as well, which is similarly difficult to represent. (I'm aware of how potentially powerful these are, but they have some disadvantages of their own that I can easily add myself once I get a working model)

 

Another annoying one is Powers that can be "set" to activate automatically or not when in the right circumstances. 'Mindy Ness' can go Incorporeal in darkness, but she can make it her default to do so "reactively" when she goes into a shadow, or make it so that she has to activate it "manually" to go all shadowy. Regardless, she has to be in a shadow. Another one like this is a villain whose body is composed of metal cubes that look human when gathered together. He can control the amount of force holding together his body, so he can act as a solid being, or as a fragile LEGO toy that can be shattered into hundreds of pieces with a single blow (and quite effectively reducing damage he takes!). Of course, he can survive as those individual blocks as long as the ones containing "vital portions" are intact. That part I'm not even going to approach yet...

 

Needless to say, all these are basically abilities that are "triggered" but do not need to be set first and can be set of manually besides. Some can even be controlled on whether they trigger or not when the trigger comes in. Any thoughts?

[Blue Jogger]

Sometimes we use a "computer" and buy the powers as +1/4 "Usable by self or one other" (or sometimes +1/2 Usable by self AND one other). The power is bought by the player, but is run by either the player or the "computer"

 

The "computer" isn't an actual computer (but could be), but represents some automated process. It must has a simple rule and works off that rule. (If on, upon entering shadow, turn desolid) It can be "turned off" or "turned on". If the character requires multiple rules, each rule should be well defined and which is given priority when conflicting. Senses can be bought for the "computer" at the 5 to 1 rule, but these senses should only be used to "react" and not to give the player cheap senses. The DEX and SPD of the "Computer" should be the same as the character. The GM should decide if 10 INT can handle the rules.

 

Overall, this is just a complicated fancy trigger. If the "computer" can do complicated, AI-like, stuff when the players unconscious. Have him buy more STUN with a limitation to represent "computer control" vs fully awake.

[Lord Liaden]

Hmm... well, you could define the Trigger at the +1/2 level, so that it can be changed to whatever circumstances you wish to set it off. That could include conditions which your character could fulfill himself to set it off when desired. If you want it to be Triggerable or usable at will depending on the circumstances, you could try to persuade your GM (assuming that's not you ) to let you buy Trigger as a Naked Advantage on the Power.

 

Now, I don't know if you'll consider this much help, but in Digital Hero #11 Steve Long's "Heroglyphs" column explores expanded options for Trigger, including how to buy a Trigger that automatically resets after each use; that might help you with some of your concerns. Unfortunately it wouldn't be kosher for me to go into detail on that here on the open boards.

[TrickstaPriest]

Hm... but I so hate handling money over the internet. ~_~ I'll figure something out..

[Lord Liaden]

Originally posted by TrickstaPriest

Hm... but I so hate handling money over the internet. ~_~ I'll figure something out..

 

You can always mail a check or money order to Hero Games. You can get the details here .

 

I'd recommend a DH subscription BTW. 10 issues (640 pages) of quality gaming material for $30.00 (you can choose which issues you want to buy based on the preview Table of Contents), plus download playtest copies of new Hero books.

[TheEmerged]

I'll vouch for the "computer" method -- I've used it for years for things like Wonder Woman's deflection power. Just be sure to give the "computer" everything it needs or the resulting cost will probably be less than it 'should' be.

[CrosshairCollie]

Another option of uncertain legality is to build the power 'Always On' and 'Only When '. For example, for Mindy, above, buy Desolidification, Persistent, Always On, Only In Shadow. If she's not in shadow, she's solid. If she's in shadow, she's intangible, and can't mix and match the two.

 

(I say uncertain legality because the idea of something being Always On, yet not Always On, strikes an odd chord that makes a loud 'Buh?!' sound. Or, it's simply Zen Hero.)

[Talon]

I think the Always On method makes the most sense; and if it's "whenever the character needs it or concentrates on it briefly", it's probably not worth a Limitation for "Only When".

 

I think the important thing is not to focus on how the character perceives the power as being activated, but instead look at what game mechanic method of activation makes the most sense.

[TheEmerged]

RE: Always On. If there's not a disadvantage to the power being Always On, you shouldn't get points for it. If anything, this build should use Inherent (+1/4) instead.

[TrickstaPriest]

The problem is that, with the way her powers work, she doesn't HAVE to go incorporeal in shadows. Rather, she can have the power "on" when she's not in shadows, which won't do anything. However, when she enters the shadows, the power then will activate. Think of it as a switchboard, with two AND connections. If and only if both are on, the ability activates.

 

Incorporeal = Power "On" && "In Shadows?"

 

The power can be turned on or off when she's not in shadows, but it won't have any effect until she's in shadows. She could be feasibly represented by a Trigger (Activates When in Shadows), but some of the other examples wouldn't work. Also, this mechanism would require her to concentrate for a half phase to activate the power on herself, in which she couldn't attack. This isn't the case with how I want this power (or some of the other "reactive powers") to work. The "resetting" trigger might work for this one, but she also needs to be able to "turn off" the trigger when she wants to. Also, this won't work very well for the abilities that can be activated voluntarily, like "Disc's" breakable body.

[Farkling]

Incorporeal = Power "On" && "In Shadows?"

 

This looks like an Inherent power, or even simply an activated power, with the limitation "Only in shadows"

 

Nothing in the game mechanics says she can't turn the power on outside of the shadows (and pay the END for it) in case she gets shoved into the shadows.

 

No different than having a force field that only affects lasers active. You pay the END for the field, it's on. You get shot with a .45, you take damage.

 

Your blocky fellow sounds like he's packing a Multipower with a couple defense settings, but without more info, I can't make any construct judgements.

[TrickstaPriest]

Hmm... I thought Inherent had to be Always On. *nods* Alright, it sounds like it makes sense. Thanks.

 

And thanks for the mailing info, btw, and the advice on the articles. I'll definitely look into getting a pack.

 

With "Dee", he basically is a construct made up of blocks. The thing is that he can control the amount of force holding himself together. This is useful for, let's say, hard work where he needs to keep together, or if he's out in a secret ID. He can make it reasonably easy up to quite hard (I guess this could qualify as a "settable" Trigger with the -0 restriction that it has to be a certain type of trigger to set it off). It's just hard in my head to work out a power that lets him break apart when he's hit, but not 100% of the time. However, if an Inherent power can be activated instantly, maybe an Inherent power with an adjustable rechargable trigger is what I'm looking for... except with the one issue that he can still voluntarily break himself apart. This is like the power surge ability in that it can be activated by a certain thing without having to be "set" each time, but still can be activated manually as well.

 

I guess the main question now is, rechargable aside, is it possible to have a power that can be activated by a trigger and manually? At least, without buying the entire thing twice... in a Multipower, it could technically work, but the power wouldn't be able to trigger when the points were distributed manually. The power surge could be used twice in a phase, once manually, once automatically, and the same goes for the block ability. His arm could be cut off, then he could break off his other one.

 

Maybe that could just be allowed as a unique advantage to Triggers, allowing them to be "set" and activated at the same time? I guess then the question is, how much would that be? +1/4, +1/2 more?

 

And then there is the fact that the power surge would require an Attack Roll for Dispel, even with Self Only, which would mean it would prevent the character from using it manually and attacking at the same time. This is quite powerful, of course, but it can be done by the character in question (the power uses a ton of END as it is, so it turns out more reasonable). Grr... maybe I'm just making things too complicated.

Ah well, thanks for the help so far.

[Farkling]

Hmmmm.

 

Let's see. I think maybe you're looking more at the mechanic than the special effect.

The special effect is: My cohesion can be mentally set from phase to phase. The less cohesive I am, the less damage I take. The more cohesive I am, the stronger I am, but the more easily I am injured.

 

How "granular" is his damage absorbing ability?

You could use this type of construct:

 

Multipower (60) : Internal Integrity Settings

12 m +40 STR, 0 END (+1/2), cannot add figured characteristics (-0) (my automatic limit for characteristics in a multipower)

12 m (+30/+30) Force Field (SFX: automatic block seperation)

6 u (+20/+20) Force FIeld, Hardened (+1/4), Costs END to activate (+1/4), (SFX: Maximum Operational Dispersal)

6 u Desolidification, 0 END (SFX: Maximum Defense, essentially "goes to pieces", affected by Area Effect attacks, plasma beams, and flamethrowers (melts the little plastic blocks )

[TrickstaPriest]

I LIKE that, thanks. ^^ *copies it* The problem that I'm mainly having is the fact that, if Dee takes enough damage to break apart when at a "mid level" cohesion, he would need to break apart manually (use an action). Let's say that, using that model, he automatically breaks apart when he takes BODY damage, and this is his trigger for his Desolidification (let's say it isn't in his Multipower). However, while this Desolidification is constantly "set" with this rechargable Trigger, he can also opt to break apart manually.

 

So, Dee is lured out into a street during a fight, and then is plowed into by a character driving a car. His defense takes a whole bunch of stun and a few BODY damage, but the impact would totally break him apart, sending blocks in all directions. This basically would activate his Desolid automatically, triggering it. However, let's say that he see's the car coming, and with his Dex he can act first on the Phase. Although his Desolid trigger is always "set" for when he takes Body damage, he opts to activate it before he's hit. Currently, he'd need to take Body damage himself to activate the trigger's conditions. If I wanted to avoid this, it'd require buying the entire Desolid twice, and probably not in a Multipower (since if he arranges all the points in the manual one in one Phase, but is hit before he can use it, he still would break apart). I was considering having it as an additional Trigger advantage, that you can activate it manually even when it is set, without having to require the Trigger's conditions. Hmm.. actually, would that be in that expanded Trigger's article mentioned earlier? If so, then I just need to be patient until I send out that check. ^^ If not, this question still stands.

[Fuzzy Gnome]

It sounds like a variation on Accidental Change to me. Accidental Change to desolidified state, uncommon circumstances, always occurs, 20 points.

[Farkling]

I tried to post something to that extent last night, it appears the system ate it.

 

Desol may or may not be an active multipower slot in the following case.

 

Add outside the Framework

 

Multiform: Disassembled state.

Disassembled Form need not buy up STR or DEX stats, but may wish to purchase CON. For simplified play, buy STUN, END to the same amounts as the main form. BODY to be purchased as client wishes. Extra BODY in disassembled state means a transformaation into it may save his life.

 

Now, I'm fuzzy on whether his disassembled state should be one little block with much active duplicates, or if it should be a Multiform with a Desolid. (SFX: Disassembled), The Desol approach makes the individual blocks completely irrelevant.

 

The Multiform should have the Desol Always On and possibly Inherent. The Multiform is activated by BODY damage, via Accidental Change and/or Side Effects.

 

TO pull himself together, the character needs to be sure he has enough BODY to shift forms back...and take the Muiltiform time. On assuming his functional form, the Multipower can be redistributed as a 0-phase action.

 

Oddly, this construct will automatically activate if the character is dying. he will take an extra pip of BODY on post-12 for blood loss, and then shift forms....his structure is unstable and he can't hold it together.

[TrickstaPriest]

Hmm... that's interesting. *notes it* It's a rather unique way of doing it. *C* As for the dying, 'Dee' is going to need that Vehicle power of "Does not Bleed" because he kinda doesn't have blood. (See below)

 

I like your construct, it works about like I wanted, though I do have a thought. I haven't fully decided yet on whether I want him to become totally one thing, or remain semi-"apart". If the latter, then Involuntary Change would work. If not, then it might not (as he can turn off the fact that he would IC from the damage). I suppose I could add that the IC only can happen when the Multipower is in use. *thinks* Though I'm going to do a quick thread on what people think of that Trigger advantage I pondered, and one other one. ^^

 

As for bleeding... He's an inorganic life form, made out of metal, and with the capability to telekinetically control his body, even on the micro level. This wouldn't be enough to say, shapeshift, but it is enough to allow him to "grab" neighbouring protons, neutrons, or electrons with his own subatomic particles, and using his thermal energy batteries to fuel the process, he rebuilds his body at the subatomic level... as long as he's 'alive', anyway. He needs to do this every night to remove the stress caused by using his metal malleably. It also explains why he needs to eat, drink, and sleep, yet isn't organic (yes, I had some fun with working out this character's design Very odd, yet most of his powers are quite simple. Most).

[Farkling]

Declare that the disassembled form (the one we dioscussed with the Desol) is an automaton/vehicle/object

 

Then additional STUN/END losses do not apply to that form, and he returns as he was before disassembly. No actual "thought" beyond subconscious actions then take place in the alternate form. it is not so much an additional character shape as it is a different 'state' of being.

 

The alternative is a perfectly normal character shift and stacking of 75% Damage Reduction. If you declare him an automaton or AI in the discorporate form, it can have "doesn't Bleed, Stun" , etc, and be well nigh immune to mental abilities...just can't do anything.

 

The shiift could be caused by blood loss, and he's forced to remain discorporated bricks until he has healed enough BODY to stop the blood loss in his "operational" form. DOn't picture it completely as blood loss, wither, think of it as loss of cohesion, breakdown of the micro-field maintaining his stability, tremendous energy loss from maintaining the structure field motions...that sort of thing. Tank on some growth or stretching to the altershape so he's scattered over a large area...

 

I don't let PC's have automaton powers ever...but a limited alternate form, that's another story.

[TrickstaPriest]

I LIKE that, it's goood. Thanks a lot for your help, and for everyone's suggestions. Probably will add those to his "Regenerative Hibernation" state, and he can't exactly do much in it anyway.

[dstarfire]

Originally posted by TrickstaPriest

It's just hard in my head to work out a power that lets him break apart when he's hit, but not 100% of the time.

Try damage reduction (by breaking into blocks, he takes less dmg from attacks, but still takes some dmg), with an activation roll, or some variation thereof.

 

And then there is the fact that the power surge would require an Attack Roll for Dispel, even with Self Only, which would mean it would prevent the character from using it manually and attacking at the same time. This is quite powerful, of course, but it can be done by the character in question (the power uses a ton of END as it is, so it turns out more reasonable). Grr... maybe I'm just making things too complicated.

 

This is one of those cases where a "less time" advantage would be really helpful. Unfortunately, you can only add time to a power, not lessen it. Hopefully a later edition of hero will incorporate the idea of equal opposites.