World creation help (Magic system question)

[proditor]

So I've seen a few of the ideas here about magic and wanted to bounce this one off of folks to see if it flies or if I should head back to the drawing board.

 

Looking through FH, I liked and adapted the machine at the center of the planet that hands out magic idea. Magic in this world is a quantifible and known science. The right gestures and incantations will always get you the same result. Now that's the fluff. This also only applies to the arcane guys. The divines work differently so we'll skip them for now. The mechanics I was thinking of are as follows.

 

Spells cost full. This limits the number of spells but...

 

Each Arcane is a "specialist" in a given school. This is the Magic skill that has the highest ranking at character creation (Earth Magic, Conjuration, what have you). Since this affinity is the result of /years/ of training, it must remain at least one point higher than all other magic skills baring an extraordinary RP reason.

 

For that one school, the arcane caster is allowed to make a MP. So a conjurer could have a Conjuration MP. This is to make it easier and far cheaper for them to get spells that fall within their affinity. Since spells are all "full cost", you can have spells outside your affinity, but you will obviously gain those of your school faster and easier. This to me solves the problem of spell cost and number of spells compared to "inate abilities", but still limits the arcane spell casters in a quantifible way. The logic to me was that in RL, you can have a guy that is a whiz at Chemistry and Biology, but generally they excel at one of those over the other.

 

Thoughts? Pitfalls I might have missed in my logic?

[Snarf]

Re: World creation help (Magic system question)

 

Interesting idea. It sounds good to me, but keep in mind spells bought outside the multipower will have the advantage of being usable in multi-power attacks. You might want to make a house rule or a limitation that restricts that, if you want the side spells to be totally inferior.

[Markdoc]

Re: World creation help (Magic system question)

 

This should work fine - my game, most mages use MPs, which lets them get lots of spells cheaply, but limits how many they can use at once. I also restrict fairly tightly the MPs available. This reflects the idea that to learn Vodanian dream sorcery (for example) you spend years learning the basics - but once you have grasp of the basics learning new stuff based on it is far faster. But learning a single spell from a different magical tradition means learning a whole bunch of (different) basic stuff all over again.

 

Thus, I also let them buy spells outside the MP (at full cost). This allows them to combine things - but at a price. It seems to balance OK - most mages would rather learn 5 spells within their tradition than learn one spell from outside it. It also aloows them to learn "ritual" spells from their tradition - really big powerful spells too big to fit in the multi. These are generally limited all to hell to bring down the cost (can only be cast once a year when the constellation of the bull is overhead and requires the sacrifice of a virgin white heifer, et etc). Having them as "special" spells fits the feel of the system and the rationale is the same: they deviate enough from the magical tradition that you don't get the "ease of use" cost break.

 

cheers, Mark

[proditor]

Re: World creation help (Magic system question)

 

Thanks Markdoc, that's exactly what I'm trying to do in my world. Glad to hear I wasn't delusional when I thought it was a good idea.

[mayapuppies]

Re: World creation help (Magic system question)

 

I have a few questions on using MP's for a magic system:

1. Do you make the slots Ultra, Flexible or Normal? I'm leaning towards Ultra
   
2. How do you handle players increasing the MP?
   
3. Do you allow players to create their own spells? If yes, what (if any) restrictions or in game procedures to have them go through?
   

[Markdoc]

Re: World creation help (Magic system question)

 

>>>Do you make the slots Ultra, Flexible or Normal? I'm leaning towards Ultra<<<

 

I use Ultras. A spell in my game is generally a learned ritual. Also the "one slot = one defined spell" makes it easier for the players to stay in character. Slot #6 then becomes "Fallstar's spell of the exploding bowels" not "3d6 RKA".

 

>>>How do you handle players increasing the MP?<<<

I just let them - but to be clear, I have pretty strict restrictions on magic. So it's not that hard to get a MP capapble of handling big-ass magic spells, but it requires a lot of points in vested to be able to use them reliably (all magic requires a skill roll) and some prior arrangements to be able to do so safely (magic IMG drains life-force and if the caster hasn't got a sacrifice handy it'll have to come outof his/her own body)

 

 

>>>Do you allow players to create their own spells? If yes, what (if any) restrictions or in game procedures to have them go through?<<<

 

In general yes: I have to approve the spell first and it has to fit very closely with the Multipower. This is mostly a game/balance thing - different magical traditions have different approaches to new spells - some tinker all the time, others strictly forbid anything but "approved" magic (given the potential side efects of some spells that's understandable). At the very least, they need a spell research skill, some KS's in the area they intend to research and time to tinker.

 

The only people who can make up spells freely are enlightened individuals called adepts, who understand magic so fully that they can essentially think of things and have them happen: they don't use MPs, but VPPs. If an indvidual becomes enlightened during the course of a game, I allow him to trade in the points spent on a multi for a VPP. IMG, this is where immortals (basically demigods) come from - very powerful enlightened ones.

 

cheers, Mark

[mayapuppies]

Re: World creation help (Magic system question)

 

Cool stuff.

 

I'm basically going this route myself. I'm thinking External Magic is the traditional magic that most people think of (i.e. pointy hats and long beards, musty tomes, etc.), I'm thinking this will be an MP.

 

Divine magic will be a bit more restrictive and utilize an EP based on the gods sphere of influence.

 

Internal magic will be much more restricted and be based on a VP with 1pt. familiarities indicating the learning of various meditations.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: World creation help (Magic system question)

 

So I've seen a few of the ideas here about magic and wanted to bounce this one off of folks to see if it flies or if I should head back to the drawing board.

 

Looking through FH, I liked and adapted the machine at the center of the planet that hands out magic idea. Magic in this world is a quantifible and known science. The right gestures and incantations will always get you the same result. Now that's the fluff. This also only applies to the arcane guys. The divines work differently so we'll skip them for now. The mechanics I was thinking of are as follows.

 

Spells cost full. This limits the number of spells but...

 

Each Arcane is a "specialist" in a given school. This is the Magic skill that has the highest ranking at character creation (Earth Magic, Conjuration, what have you). Since this affinity is the result of /years/ of training, it must remain at least one point higher than all other magic skills baring an extraordinary RP reason.

 

For that one school, the arcane caster is allowed to make a MP. So a conjurer could have a Conjuration MP. This is to make it easier and far cheaper for them to get spells that fall within their affinity. Since spells are all "full cost", you can have spells outside your affinity, but you will obviously gain those of your school faster and easier. This to me solves the problem of spell cost and number of spells compared to "inate abilities", but still limits the arcane spell casters in a quantifible way. The logic to me was that in RL, you can have a guy that is a whiz at Chemistry and Biology, but generally they excel at one of those over the other.

 

Thoughts? Pitfalls I might have missed in my logic?

This will be an overall low-powered Magic System unless the campaign is relatively high-points, but as a simple rule of thumb it does engender distinction between specialists.

 

The key detail of importance here is A) what "Types" of Magic are available and what can each "Type" of Magic do?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: World creation help (Magic system question)

 

I like the idea as a fair way to define differences among spell casters but I worry about the effect on non-spell casting characters in the sense that it tilts the future balance (experience spent vs. effect on character effectiveness) even further in favor of the spell casters vs. even the most focused fighter type.

 

This effect would be amplified even more if OCV or DC maximums are in place which would affect the fighter more directly than the spellcaster who can add more 'patch' spells with access to a multipower method to spend experience more effeciently.

 

This might balance out however considering that multipower reserves have to be built with highest active point cost of any slots (minus points saved for limitations shared by all slots). I believe the math works out to be a higher starting cost for a well rounded spell caster who then passes one built on the system suggested in FHG like a dragster.

 

For an experience hero system gaming group this may not be a problem but would be very daunting to new players (this is very much like what I am currently facin with my D&D/D20 addicted gaming group.)

[Markdoc]

Re: World creation help (Magic system question)

 

The obvious answer is that in my game I allow non-magic users to have access to multipowers as well: cool thief powers, martial arts, etc. Not all characters have them - some of the most cost-efficient chrcaters in my game have been johhny-one-shots (usually the big strong guy who hits things very well).

 

But for characters who want a bunch of cool minor powers, this does the trick and allows them to stand out from the crowd.

 

The other answer is that as noted, I limit magic very heavily, so that spell casters can't go around casting spells all day: it would quite literally, kill them.

 

cheers, Mark