Imaginary Weapons

[Osprey]

I'm trying to build an "Imaginary weapon" power.

 

The character makes a weapon that is not real and does no damage.

It appears real and causes a momentary illusion of major (or even possibly fatal) damage. Then the victim can immediately notice that he isn't hurt.

(Good for Presence Attacks though)

 

So Here are the Questions:

 

How much (or little) die of Mental Illusions should be bought to cause an effect that is only momentary?

 

Would only 2D6 do it?

 

I can't recall if you need to roll 1xEGO for the victim to perceive the illusion.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Imaginary Weapons

 

EGO+ might be good enough to present a realistic weapon, but EGO+10 might be necessary to have it actually strike the target. If it doesn't actually do any damage, there's no need for the extra affect.

 

All in all, if used for a bonus on a PRE Attack, this is likely to add only 1d6 (maybe two, if the effect is good) and will only affect a single person.

 

Other than PRE Attacks, what will this be used for (or is this just a trick you want to do with a normal Mental Illusion)?

[Osprey]

Re: Imaginary Weapons

 

EGO+ might be good enough to present a realistic weapon' date=' but EGO+10 [i']might[/i] be necessary to have it actually strike the target. If it doesn't actually do any damage, there's no need for the extra affect.

 

All in all, if used for a bonus on a PRE Attack, this is likely to add only 1d6 (maybe two, if the effect is good) and will only affect a single person.

 

Other than PRE Attacks, what will this be used for (or is this just a trick you want to do with a normal Mental Illusion)?

 

Correct: I am thinking of Mental Illusions with a limitation of "Weapons only".

 

The character is only now discovering the power. It might do damage later, but for now - none.

 

Let me try to be more specific with my questions:

 

How high a roll does one need to present the illusion to the target that an "Energy Sword" summoned from the ether has cut off the target's arm?

 

I am concerned with the instant that the "sword" actually "cuts off the arm."

 

I realize that an instant later, the target will realize that his arm is still there.

 

Perhaps there is even a perception of pain - even though there is no stun damage.

 

Is there a mininum amount one must roll for a perceived (though not believed) illusion?

-Or-

Are all Mental Illusions automatically perceived?

[Snarf]

Re: Imaginary Weapons

 

The mental illusion will be believed until the target makes his breakout roll normally. If the target has some reason to believe he's being hit with an illusion, he could ignore it, but it would still appear real until the breakout roll was made.

 

I just checked the rules for mental illusions and it looks like there are rules for hurting people with imaginary weapons on page 130. For a +10 on the roll an illusion can do BODY and for a +20 it can do BODY and STUN. But if you want to cripple arms and make them useless without doing real damage, I'd say it would be an EGO+10.

[McCoy]

Re: Imaginary Weapons

 

Let me try to be more specific with my questions:

 

How high a roll does one need to present the illusion to the target that an "Energy Sword" summoned from the ether has cut off the target's arm?

 

I am concerned with the instant that the "sword" actually "cuts off the arm."

 

I realize that an instant later, the target will realize that his arm is still there.

 

Perhaps there is even a perception of pain - even though there is no stun damage.

 

Is there a mininum amount one must roll for a perceived (though not believed) illusion?

-Or-

Are all Mental Illusions automatically perceived?

Humm. FREd says "if the effect roll is not sufficient to the desired level, the attack has no effect," so it would be necessary to reach at least the target's EGO before they knew what the illusion was suppost to be. Further, FREd describes "a wound appears that really isn't there" as a minor change, and "major sensory effects" as a major change, >EGO and >EGO +10 respectively.

 

As a GM, I would say that the effect you want is a "major sensory effect," requiring a roll of more than EGO +10, but I could see a GM allowing it at the more than EGO level.

 

I would also allow an "automatic breakout" limitation to this, probably a -1/4, to reflect that the target instantly and automatically realizes that it is an illusion.

 

But I would also suggest that you consider just buying extra PRE, with the violent illusion as a Sx. No EGO combat roll required, no rolling for level of effect, just go directly to the enhanced PRE attack roll.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Imaginary Weapons

 

I would say that an effect that wouldn't hamper the character any (no missing or cripled limbs) would only be EGO+. The illusion of a severed limb, though not actually damaging, would still prevent the use of that limb as long as the target believes the illusion, and should be EGO+10.

 

Whenever you attack someone with a Mental Power, they make a breakout roll automatically on their next Phase, before they act. If that roll is made, the illusion never gets a full hold and the target ignores it. If for some reason the character would interact with the illusion before their next Phase, the GM may allow a breakout immediately before that interaction (such as the illusion of someone attacking the character and cutting off their arm).

 

With that in mind, you'll need to define "instant." I assume you want the target to believe the illusion, even if only an instant, so that would mean they would need to fail that first breakout roll. I would suggest the Instant Limitation (-1/2) so that the illusion immediately goes away at the end of the attacker's Phase (right before his next actually).

 

As for the number of dice, that'll depend upon the types of characters you'll want to affect and how easy/difficult it would be to make the breakout roll. For a reliably consistant effect, I'd suggest at least 6d6. That gives you an average just over 20, which is enough to get EGO+10 on normals, and giving them an 11- chance on the breakout roll.

[DrFurious]

Re: Imaginary Weapons

 

Has anyone considered just buying an attack power with a limitation "illusionary damage - ego roll or when out of combat reveals damage is not real(-1/2)"

[Osprey]

Re: Imaginary Weapons

 

Has anyone considered just buying an attack power with a limitation "illusionary damage - ego roll or when out of combat reveals damage is not real(-1/2)"

 

You mean like something a little like this:

 

1/2 D6 RKA Against Mental Defense (+1.5), No Range (-1/2), Illusionary damage - ego roll or when out of combat reveals damage is not real(-1/2)

 

Or more simply:

 

1/2 D6 RKA Against Mental Defense (+1.5), No Range (-1/2)

 

Or Even:

 

1/2 D6 RKA Against Mental Defense (+1.5), No Range (-1/2) PLUS 6D6 Illusions, Only to simulate a critical hit (-1/4), Automatic breakout on 1st try (-1/4).

[caris]

Re: Imaginary Weapons

 

You mean like something a little like this:

 

1/2 D6 RKA Against Mental Defense (+1.5), No Range (-1/2), Illusionary damage - ego roll or when out of combat reveals damage is not real(-1/2)

 

Or more simply:

 

1/2 D6 RKA Against Mental Defense (+1.5), No Range (-1/2)

 

Or Even:

 

1/2 D6 RKA Against Mental Defense (+1.5), No Range (-1/2) PLUS 6D6 Illusions, Only to simulate a critical hit (-1/4), Automatic breakout on 1st try (-1/4).

 

 

Well, it sounds like all the character actually wants is a bonus to it's PRE attack. How about just +20 PRE (attack only -1/2, one target only -1), and call the rest special effect?

[Dust Raven]

Re: Imaginary Weapons

 

Well' date=' it sounds like all the character actually wants is a bonus to it's PRE attack. How about just +20 PRE (attack only -1/2, one target only -1), and call the rest special effect?[/quote']

This soulds like a great idea, though I'd say "One Target Only" is at most a -1/2.

[caris]

Re: Imaginary Weapons

 

This soulds like a great idea' date=' though I'd say "One Target Only" is at most a -1/2.[/quote']

 

All values for Custom Modifiers are merely suggestions, and will need to modified for individual campaigns.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Imaginary Weapons

 

All values for Custom Modifiers are merely suggestions' date=' and will need to modified for individual campaigns. [/quote']

True.

[pinecone]

Re: Imaginary Weapons

 

Caris got there first I would recomend the same thing...often the most diffacult constructs can be built as "special effects" and if all you want it to Do is boost Pres the rest is just coolness and shouldn't cost points...YMMV