Gem/Focus Magic System

[Zoth]

Re: Attuning

 

Originally posted by ShadowRaptor

I don't know if this would work for a alternate name for Channeling, but Attuning could also work if the person that uses the gem Attunes the gem to him/her so he/she can focus magic through it as long as its Attuned, or Linked, to him.

 

That's a good idea I like the word Attuning

[Zoth]

Types of Managen

 

After considerable time and thought I have made a list of the different types of Managen their Influence and what Gems they are made from.

• White Managen
  Influence: Lifeforce and Spirit
  Gem Seed: Moonstone or Topaz
  
• Gold Managen
  Influence: Mind and Thought, Emotions
  Gem Seed: Agate or Diamond
  
• Turquoise Managen
  Influence: Water, Liquids, Ice, Weather
  Gem Seed: Moonstone or Zircon
  
• Dark-Green Managen
  Influence: Earth, Soilds, Metals
  Gem Seed: Emerald
  
• Blue Managen
  Influence: Air, Gass, Sky, Wind, Weather
  Gem Seed: Zircon
  
• Crimson Managen
  Influence: Fire, Plasmas, Heat
  Gem Seed: Ruby
  
• Purple Managen
  Influence: Ether, Mana and The Metaphysical, Pure
  Magical Effect
  Gem Seed: Amethyst
  
• Silver Managen
  Influence: Light and Drakness
  Gem Seed: Moonstone or Onyx
  
• Indigo Managen
  Influence: Dimension, Space and Time
  Gem Seed: Sapphire
   
  
• Spells Catalysts
  Influencing Forces: Creation, Forces, Entropy
  Seed: Specific gestures while casting.
  

So what do you think? Thoughts and opinions?

[ShadowRaptor]

I just also wanted to state that I also have no official playtesting experience.

 

That said, Zoth, your list is cool. Each gem does have its own list of power effects, so if I want to fire off a blast of fire, then I use a Ruby Gem. Now, can I do ANY Fire effect I want, or are there specific levels of effects that has to be reached first?

 

I am understanding then that if I was to use this gem, I must first pay for a VPP for the gems so I have those points allocated to them, then also have points put into a seperate skill (and maybe even a talent that allows me to sense the magic within the gems before I try to attune them)...

 

Also, each gem will have its own power point total that fills up some of the VPP as I get them, and then that also depends on the quality of the gem and how prepared they are, and the size.

 

am I right in the interpretation, or am I way off base? Or did I somehow combine the two systems into one without realizing it?

[Zoth]

Re: did I somehow combine the two systems

 

Originally posted by ShadowRaptor

Or did I somehow combine the two systems into one without realizing it?

 

Hehe yeah you kind of did

 

Ok if I follow C_Zeree shaping stone system right the mage just pays for the VPP slots and channeling skill. The powers thou are independent functions of shaping stones.

 

My Managen system on the other hand the mage buys an Endurance Reserve that the mage must use to power the managen. Each type of managen has its own channeling skill exp. White managen needs white managen channeling. Gold managen needs Gold managen channeling, est.

 

The big problem with both systems is the mage doesn’t spend points for the stones.

Managen system counteracts this somewhat because each gem takes a different skill so a true mage is gone need 9 skills. Also there is gone be heavy active point penalties on the skills.

I might also require a perk to use managen

[ShadowRaptor]

It's all good in the end.

 

9 skills, that's quite a bit there...obviously it leads to people selecting a few and specializing in probably a couple, if that. Plus, it also allows for those who are warriors to also dabble a little bit in the use of a single type of gem if he wants to. Pretty cool. Plus a perk, which will probably cost 3 or 5 points to get.

 

Ok. Let's say I have a END reserve of 50 points for the powering of stones, and I have skills in White and Crimson Managen's. Each skill is 14- hypothetically. I have a Ruby and a Topaz. With the Ruby I can do Fire and Heat effects, and with the Topaz I can do Lifeforce and Spirit effects (effectively healing as its base).

 

Now, I want to use the Ruby to fire off a fireball effect, with a minor 2" radius explosion, so its not that big. I want it to do 4d6 damage. Can I set these effects as I wish, as I stated, or will each gem have specific effects that are already pre-determined? Like, one Ruby will only do a fireball, another will do only a flame wall...etc.

 

To power and use the stone I must make a Crimson skill check, am I right?

 

I ask these questions to understand the system because its cool and the more questions that are asked and better we understand it, the better it will be when someone plays it.

[Guest C_Zeree]

Examples

 

I think what this calls for is an actual example, it would probably help out far more than the rules concept.

 

Zoth why don't you do a write-up of a managen, and I will write up a shaping stone. Doesn't matter if its exactly right, we'll polish it up until we get exactly what we want. I think it will help demonstrate the differences as well as the similar aspects of our two systems.

[Guest C_Zeree]

Decisions

 

::Sigh::

 

Mavnn's post from the FF thread has caused me to think a lot about how my system is set up.

 

VPP's would work best if shaping stones are common, other wise the Channeler goes around having a bunch of "wasted" CP all the time.

 

MP's don't have the versatility I want for Channeling, but they provide more immediate worth to the mage.

 

Just don't know...

[Mavnn]

Depending on your point of view, maybe low level shaping stones should be common. After all, if any reasonably competant mage can pick up a cheap gem and turn it into a 10-20 AP Shaping Stone with little time or effort, there's going to be a lot of them lying around with useful spells on. I would expect even things like family heirlooms would frequently be shaping stones - it would only take one improverised mage in the family (after all - it's not like it's doing the gem any harm).

 

Of course, large scale 40+ AP shaping stones probably should be rare.

 

It depends a lot on how rich a 'magic environment' you desire .

 

And you're not allowed to use my posts as a reason to slow down ! They're supposed to inspire ideas, not kill them!

 

Michael

[ShadowRaptor]

Work your system with examples of using both VPP and MP and see how it pans out. That's what we are here, to help you come up with a kick butt system.

[Zoth]

Managen Answers

 

Originally posted by ShadowRaptor

: 9 skills, that's quite a bit there...obviously it leads to people selecting a few and specializing in probably a couple

That is a lot of skills but the mage doesn’t pay points for the stones they find so I think it evens out Yes I envision there will be specialization.

Originally posted by ShadowRaptor

: Can I set these effects as I wish, as I stated, or will each gem have specific effects that are already pre-determined?

Each gem will have random spells based on their grade and type of managen. The more powerful the spell the higher the grade of managen it will be found in.

 

Exp. A mage might have two crimson managen. One a low grade managen that has lets say (to borrow D$D spell names) flame strike. The other gem a moderate grade managen might have fireball.

 

Originally posted by ShadowRaptor

: To power and use the stone I must make a Crimson skill check, am I right?

Correct.

Originally posted by C_Zeree

I think what this calls for is an actual example, it would probably help out far more than the rules concept.

 

Zoth why don't you do a write-up of a managen,

I'm way ahead of you on this I just need to classify the types of managen frist

Originally posted by C_Zeree

::Sigh::

 

Mavnn's post from the FF thread has caused me to think a lot about how my system is set up.

 

VPP's would work best if shaping stones are common, other wise the Channeler goes around having a bunch of "wasted" CP all the time.

 

MP's don't have the versatility I want for Channeling, but they provide more immediate worth to the mage.

 

Just don't know...

 

I agreed with Mavnn I wouldn’t get discouraged. Sure there are a few kinks to work out (my system too) but I think you got a nice system with shaping stones. I could see using it in a campaign its just not the feel I had for Telsendalay

 

Maybe some shaping stones could enhance the mages VPP or his abilities? Basically help power the spell.

[ShadowRaptor]

Here's another idea to toss out into the mix Zoth:

 

When a person gets the gem and figures out what kind of effects it can produce, the mage can then specify the spell within by attuning it to him based on how powerful the stone is? This way, if one person finds a Ruby and wants to use the points in the gem to create a fireball spell, then he can, while another can take that same gem, and he feels that it would better serve being a flame cone spell instead...but the one downside I can see to this is more bookkeeping during the game, but with people used to the system it wouldn't be too bad a thing.

 

My Materia magic idea that has its own quirks that needs to be worked out:

 

Each gem produces a type of effect, this we all know. Red stones produce fire, Yellow stones produce electricity, Blue stones produce ice, etc...this is all I have worked out so far using no official gem names.

 

In order for a person to attune the magic within the stone and use it with his weapon or armor, he must have a Talent: Materia Attuning and then a skill Materia Focusing, which is based on EGO (its the first characteristic to pop into my mind).

 

The gems have specific effects as the character unlocks more power of the stone, and to unlock the power the character must spend some of his own xp to attune the gem to him, and this then allows only him to use it. The gems effects are dependent on if the gem is put into a weapon, a armor, or other item, like a necklace or helmet. So, depending on what it is linked with it will do different things.

 

Once the person has focussed enough of his essence with the gem, then he unlocks the power and he can use it. I am thinking each gem will have specific levels of powers, from level 1 to 5, and each will have its own END reserve (but this I am not sure on). The idea is sound, in my head, but now I am trying to work on how to do this mechanically. The idea I have for now is that once the person attunes 5 xp into the gem, then he unlocks level 1 powers. Another 5 xp unlocks level 2. The numbers are merely hypothetical for now.

 

To attune xp into a gem, he must use his Materia Focusing skill, and the skill check is reduced -1 for each 1 xp he wishes to focus into it at the time. Also, the gem must be linked into a item the person is wearing, or else he can't attune some of his xp into it at all. I hope this made some sense.

 

Since I am focusing on fire like effects, I will try and use a Red Materia in this example:

Level 1:

* in a weapon, enchants the weapon to do an additional +1d6 flame damage.

* in a armor, enchants the armor to provide +3 Flame Resistance.

* in a helmet, provides infravision.

 

I don't know if this Materia idea would work, but at least theoretically speaking it seems, to me, to feel like how Materia worked on FF7 because the Materia got more powerful in stages as the person used it and earned points with it, and each stage, or level, of the Materia provides different effects depending on what it was linked with. That is the feel I would want if using Materia akin to FF7.

 

What do you think of the idea?

[Guest C_Zeree]

First off is an example of Channeling using a Virtual Power Pool.

 

Claws of the Bear: A spell known by shamans in the deep wild. It allows them to attack with the same deadly power as the bear of the forest. Normally this power is held within a bear claw worn around the shaman’s neck

 

Gift of Father Oak: The elder woods protect those that guard them. Bound to a figure made out of wrapped young wood, this spell awakes the forest to help the shaman. Every available piece of vegetation near the target tries to wrap itself about the character, preventing their movement.

 

Cost	Power	END
48	Channeling: VPP (Magic), 40 base + 8 control cost (60 Active Points); Shaping Stones Only (Limited; -1/2), RSR: Channeling (-1/2), Variable Limitations (requires -1 worth of Limitations -1/2)
0	1) Claws of the Bear: HKA 2d6 (plus STR) (vs. PD), Power Can Draw END From Character or END Reserve (+1/4) (37 Active Points); Shaping Stone (OAF) (-3), Increased END Cost (2x END; -1/2), RSR: Channeling (-1/2), Reduced Penetration (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4) Real Cost: 6	8
0	2) Gift of Father Oak: Entangle 2d6, 2 DEF, Power Can Draw END From Character or END Reserve (+1/4) (25 Active Points); Shaping Stone (OAF) (-3), Magery (-3/4), RSR: Channeling (-1/2), Increased Endurance Cost (2x END; -1/2), Cannot Form Barriers (-1/4), Vegetation Must Be Present (Power loses about a fourth of its effectiveness; -1/4) Real Cost: 4	4

Powers Cost: 48

 

Next is an example of Channeling using a Multipower.

 

Obsidian Stone of Fiery Blasting: An overzealous novice in the order of Vulcanic Mysteries devised this magical item. It appears to be a small cube carved from obsidian, and at its heart flickers a red light. Fueled with mystical power, the stone grants the mage the ability to cause four fiery plumes to erupt from the earth, engulfing any within.

 

Mercurial Stone of Expeditious Retreat: This object is a small metallic sphere that appears to be solid mercury, bound within a helix of silver. Charm can be worn in a bracelet or in a necklace. Oriz Greymere did not always posses the power he wields today as the head of Rabann Guild of Artificers. Stories abound of Oriz’s younger years, and his adventures with the Silver Shields. Often taking on challenges out of their league, Oriz, as their wizard often found himself battered and bruised, when he was never supposed to get into combat. To solve this problem he devised this magical item.

 

Cost	Power	END
20	Channeling: Multipower, 40-point reserve, all slots: (40 Active Points); RSR: Channeling (-1/2), Increased END Cost (2x END; -1/2)
1u	1) Obsidian Stone of Fiery Blasting: Energy Blast 3d6 (vs. ED), Power Can Draw END From Character or END Reserve (+1/4), AOE (4" Any Area; +1 1/4) (37 Active Points); Shaping Stone (OAF) (-3), Magery (-3/4)	8
1u	2) Mercurial Stone of Expeditious Retreat: Teleportation 10" (20 Active Points); Shaping Stone (OAF) (-3), Only to Flee From Combat (-1), Must Pass Through Intervening Space (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4)	4

Powers Cost: 22

 

The differences are apparent. The Multipower is half as expensive as the VPP. Knowing the shaman above though, he has seven or eight other tokens tucked away in his pouch, and he could keep up to six more, of similar power, easily accessible. While the mage can only use the two shaping stones he has found. Even if the mage comes upon a shaping stone lost in the halls of a forgotten mage, he cannot tap its power until he spends time with it and attunes himself to the energies inside (i.e. paying the xp for the multipower slot.)

 

I think I like this idea, two different methods for the two differing philosophies. The animists use the flexibility of the VPP, since they do depend on their fetishes almost exclusively, and it is easier for them to be constructed. And, the scientific magi use a multipower, because they do not depend on shaping stones, channeling is more secondary profession “hobby.†In addition, it symbolizing the study they need to uncover the mysteries of the shaping stones.

 

Cool, a possible solution.

[Guest C_Zeree]

Materia Thoughts

 

Originally posted by ShadowRaptor

In order for a person to attune the magic within the stone and use it with his weapon or armor, he must have a Talent: Materia Attuning and then a skill Materia Focusing, which is based on EGO (its the first characteristic to pop into my mind).

 

The gems have specific effects as the character unlocks more power of the stone, and to unlock the power the character must spend some of his own xp to attune the gem to him, and this then allows only him to use it. The gems effects are dependent on if the gem is put into a weapon, a armor, or other item, like a necklace or helmet. So, depending on what it is linked with it will do different things.

Something to think about, can the character remove the gem from the item or not? If they can the items could have a material VPP. If not the weapons could be a MP with the abilities in slots.

Once the person has focussed enough of his essence with the gem, then he unlocks the power and he can use it. I am thinking each gem will have specific levels of powers, from level 1 to 5, and each will have its own END reserve (but this I am not sure on)¡K I hope this made some sense.

It does, but it could take some thinking on how to do it game mechanics wise. As I am sure you are in the process of.

I don't know if this Materia idea would work, but at least theoretically speaking it seems, to me, to feel like how Materia worked on FF7 because the Materia got more powerful in stages as the person used it and earned points with it, and each stage, or level, of the Materia provides different effects depending on what it was linked with. That is the feel I would want if using Materia akin to FF7.

 

What do you think of the idea?

It definitely sounds like Materia, congrats. Here to help by tearing apart your ideas.

[Zoth]

Silver Managen

 

Ok here is a fully work out example of Silver Managen

 

Silver Managen

Influence:  Light and Drakness

Gem Seed:  Moonstone or Pearl

Must use caster's Mana Pool Endurance Reserve

Spells Visible Effects-sparkling multicolored lighted effects

surrounds the managen and follows the casters gestures

 

Glowing Gems

Gem Requirements: 100gp value gem

15-30 Point Multipower (flexible slots)  ()

Focus (OAF)  (-1)

Independent  (-2)

Concentration ½ DCV  (-1/4)

Gestures–both hands  (-1/2)

RSR-Channeling Silver Managen -1 per 10 AP (-1/2)

    Possible Spells

      M  Glow  Image: Sight Group,1" radius (10), UOO (+1/4), Only valid recipient is the spells focus (-3/4),

      Increased END x3 (-1), Only to create light (-1),

      Active Cost: (12), Real Cost: (2), END: (3)

      When the caster begins this spell his managen starts to glow softly then gradually increases till

      the spell is complete and the managen glows bright enough to illuminate the area surrounding the caster.

      M  Mask Item  Image: Sight and Touch Group , 1" radius (20),UOO (+1/4),Increased END x3 (-1),

     Recipient must be an item the caster holds (-1/2)

      Active Cost: (12), Real Cost: (2), END: (3)

      This spell will make an illusion around an object the caster holds appear to be some other object the caster chooses.

      Example of this include making coins appear to be other more or less valuable coins, Gems to appear as other gems,

      Managen to look like normal gems, est.

 

Glittering Gems

Gem Requirements: 300gp value gem

30-50 Point Multipower (flexible slots)  ()

Focus (OAF)-Expendability Difficalt  (-1&1/4)

Independent  (-2)

Concentration ½ DCV  (-1/4)

Gestures–both hands  (-1/2)

RSR-Channeling Silver Managen -1 per 5 AP (-1)

    Possible Spells (includes glowing spells)

      M  Phantasm  Image: Sight (10), Increased Size (8" radius) (+3/4),

        Increased END x3 (-1)

      Active Cost: (17), Real Cost: (3), END: (6)

      This spell creates a visual only illusion of the caster's desire. Any one who attempts to touch the illusion will

      immediately realize it is an illusion.

      M  Light  Image: Sight (10), Increased Size (8" radius) (+3/4), UOO (+1/4),

        Only valid recipient is the spells focus (-3/4), Increased END x3 (-1)

      Active Cost: (20), Real Cost: (3), END: (6)

      When the caster begins this spell his managen starts to glow softly then gradually increases till

      the spell is complete and the managen glows bright enough to illuminate the area surrounding a 8" radius form the gem.

 

Sparkling Gems

Gem Requirements: 800gp value gem

50-60+ Point Multipower (flexible slots)  ()

Focus (OAF)-Expendability Very Difficalt  (-1&1/2)

Independent  (-2)

Concentration ½ DCV  (-1/4)

Gestures–both hands  (-1/2)

RSR-Channeling Silver Managen -1 per 5 AP (-1)

    Possible Spells (includes glowing & glittering spells)

      M  Field of Darkness  Darkness: Sight Group (10), Increased Size (5" radius) (40),

      Increased END x2 (-1/2)

      Active Cost: (50), Real Cost: (7), END: (10)

      This spell makes a field of darkness in the area the caster wish with in the spells range.

      M  Shed the Light  Invisibility: Sight Group (20), No Fringe (10),

      Focus (OIF)-Hiding Managen (+1/2), Only when not attacking (-1/2), Increased END x2 (-1/2)

      Active Cost: (45), Real Cost: (6), END: (10)

      This spell makes the caster invisible to light as long as he doesn’t attack anyone.

[Zoth]

Materia ideas

 

Originally posted by ShadowRaptor

The gems have specific effects as the character unlocks more power of the stone, and to unlock the power the character must spend some of his own xp to attune the gem to him, and this then allows only him to use it. The gems effects are dependent on if the gem is put into a weapon, a armor, or other item, like a necklace or helmet. So, depending on what it is linked with it will do different things.

 

Once the person has focussed enough of his essence with the gem, then he unlocks the power and he can use it. I am thinking each gem will have specific levels of powers, from level 1 to 5, and each will have its own END reserve (but this I am not sure on). The idea is sound, in my head, but now I am trying to work on how to do this mechanically. The idea I have for now is that once the person attunes 5 xp into the gem, then he unlocks level 1 powers. Another 5 xp unlocks level 2. The numbers are merely hypothetical for now.

 

I don’t like how this sounds. It sounds like the character dumps xp into the gem then it gets lost/stolen and you end up with one unhappy player.

 

Maybe I just read it wrong but if not I would make it where the character learns how to unlock the spell form any Materia of that type. Then if the gem gets lost the character just has to find another materia of that type spend sometime and make some skill rolls and he is back in biz. Of course each Materia might have its own spells it teaches the character how to unlock.

[ShadowRaptor]

Yeah, I know what you mean, which is why its good that all of you are willing to look at it and state what you think.

 

What if each gem had its own MP or VPP within it, and the user can only use whats already in the gem?

 

Personally, I like both of yours more...its not materia per se but I think trying to simulate the game exactly from FF7 would be almost impossible without making it unbalancing it in some way...both of yours are more basic than FF7, and easier to understand.

 

I am also trying to see how I want magic to work in my universe, mainly because I have always wanted to run a sci-fi type game with the energy and spectacular effects of star wars with the combination of magic and spectacular effects of final fantasy without the force as the main focus of magic.

 

One type of magic I can envision in my setting is to have special weapons that can have gems be slotted into them is one way, and if the gems cost money and the person needs a special skill to tap into the gem then only those that pay for them and have the skill and maybe a talent can use them. Another form of magic I can see in this universe is also to incorporate something like how magic is used in Exalted, which also has a FF feel to it, but I am not that good at using the hero system. I guess the second form of magic could be more like a normal magic system, and having both options could lead to some interesting combinations, but my mind is drawing blanks.

 

rant over...on with the gem magic, and I once again say that both systems you two have come up with are awesome.

[Zoth]

materia

 

Originally posted by ShadowRaptor

Yeah, I know what you mean, which is why its good that all of you are willing to look at it and state what you think.

 

I think the problem is materia never was an OAF or OIF it was just a focus. As I remember it In the FF7 game you never lost the materia (you might could sell it thou). Maybe materia should have loyalties to thou that unlock them, if the materia gets lost or stolen it will just later return and appear floating around the caster. The caster of course could willing give it to a willing participant.

The materia then would be an Independent Multipower. As the character unlocks spell he pays for the slots and spell cost.

 

This would then give a FF7 feel.

 

The disadvantage is the character doesn’t pay for the multipower and there will be some in-party trading of unlocked materia.

 

Originally posted by ShadowRaptor

I once again say that both systems you two have come up with are awesome.

 

 

Thanks I would not have got this far without others bouncing ideas around

[Zoth]

Managen-On wards and forward.

 

I have been thinking about how I would handle combining spell form two different Influences (managen). Exp. True illusion would be an illusion that effects sight, touch and hearing groups. That is at less two influences: Silver Managen (Light and Drakness) and

Blue Managen (Air, Gass, Sky, Wind, Weather). Turn illusion spell would be a combining of the Silver Managen spell Phantasm with the Blue Managen spell Ventriloquism.

 

At first I though I would have a ability or spell called Combined Managen but then I got to thinking why not let this be a special function of Purple Managen?

Purple Managen would channel the effects of two or more spells form different managen into a combined spell.

 

If you haven’t guessed yet Purple Managen (Ether, Mana and The Metaphysical, Pure

Magical Effect) is kind of the trunk of my magic system. If the spell can’t be classified with any of the other 8 managen then it gos under Purple Managen. Purple Managen would not have very many of It’s own spells (mostly enchantments).

 

The combined spells would be found in purple managen and use the purple managen channeling skill but each spell would require two or more extra Focus ( managen that contained prerequisite spells). Also might require background knowledge of channeling the managen the prerequisite spells come form.

 

Now this means that the combined spell would have heavier requirements and more limts then normal spells but most of the time combined spell are gone be kill app spells like true illusion.

[Guest C_Zeree]

Materia…

 

I agree with Zoth’s thoughts, that materia in FF7 never really seemed like a focus. You could never loose it, no one wanted to steal it. This is up to the GM to add this spice.

 

Excuse me if I belabor the use of VPP’s, but to me they seem a possible solution. VPP’s are not placed on the gems themselves, but on the weapons/armor/items of the characters, and the characters themselves. The VPP’s would be limited to the materia possessed by the group (-1/2). Each VPP slot would be a special ability held within the gems, and gems could have multiple powers. Something like Ruby Rank I in an armor VPP would provide extra ED Armor against Flame only. This allows characters to fill weapons and swap out materia. I do not know how you could go about unlocking other powers in the gems, because they should be background only, the VPP’s of the items is where Points should go.

 

The materia then would be an Independent Multipower. As the character unlocks spell he pays for the slots and spell cost.

Another good idea, brilliant my good man! You just have each power Linked to a weapon/armor/item. As a player I would have a hard time investing power in my MP and then making the MP Independent, so all my abilities can be stolen. The problem Zoth already pointed out.

 

However, what about: A Materia Multipower, no OAF/OIF or Indepenedant Lim on it that the character must pay for. You then pick the slots up, Red Materia Armor I, whatever from a gem, tag it with the OAF/OIF/IAF, but not Independant. This is because, as long as the character has Red Materia he would always have that power, right? Or am I forgetting how materia works? This allows a character to “unlock†a gem by paying XP for the MP slots. The gems don’t cost power of themselves, but the Materia MP does.

 

The problem is the character can get quite a list of powers he can have on his armor & weapons: 10, 12, many. A solution to this is a GM stipulation, such and such a weapon

can only have 4 powers on it at any one time.

 

Just a few thoughts, I hope they help.

 

ShadowRaptor, why limit yourself to one magic system? The universe is limitless, as are the possibilities.

 

Also, thanks for the compliment!

[Guest C_Zeree]

Purple Managen

 

Zoth,

 

I like the examples, not what I was thinking, cooler!

 

The combined spells would be found in purple managen and use the purple managen channeling skill but each spell would require two or more extra Focus

So the purple managen would actually hold the spell? This could result in some very high powered purple managen.

[ShadowRaptor]

yeah, and I bet he has it worked that the purple managem are the rarest to find.

 

Thanks for the materia ideas, it is hard to translate a video game like that one into a rpg system because no one would want to take that chance in a rpg game. I sure wouldn't want to spend some points to unlock powers in a gem and then have it stolen. That would piss me off to feel that I wasted them, so how to work the system where, even if the gem is lost, you don't lose the powers themselves?

 

I think any system that works with gems/stones needs to answer that question so any mage who invests doesn't lose out when the stones are gone from them.

[Mavnn]

In HERO that's easy . Don't take the Independent limitation.

 

As long as you don't the GM should always give you a chance to recover the points - look at the descriptions of the limitations.

 

It's one of the less intuitive things about HERO, but remember that the Focus limitation was originally developed for superhero games where the focus is part of the character concept - somebody can (and sometimes does) steal or snatch a batarang. But Batman always has it back or has a replacement by the next comic.

 

Random rule of HEROing - unless you're cheap enough to take independent, it's very hard to lose points perminantely. Although long term drains can lose you points for a very long time...

 

Michael

[Markdoc]

Actually I kind of like the independant limitation - it changes the flavour of the game and makes the gems very much more the focus of play.

 

A player who lost a gem they crafted might be pissed off, but by the same token, they could find or steal someone else's, so it would balance out (indeed, knowing player characters, it would more than balance out).

 

IF, OTOH, the gems are just replacable foci, then they become far less of a factor in the game. What's the big deal if you can easily replace your magical gems in a session or so? Then they just become a focus like mistletoe, OAF, -1.

 

cheers, Mark

[Mavnn]

I think personally I'd give players the choice, in most situations. In the same way I'd give players the choice when they buy things like magic items in character generation.

 

For example, if I was creating Elric it would destroy my character concept for someone to (perminately) run off with Stormbringer - while if I'm playing Frodo and someone runs off with Sting, I'm irritated at losing my sharp pointy stick but it doesn't really change the character.

 

So if I was playing a mage in a game like this I'd probably get a few basic or signature spells as focusses (it would ruin the 'mage' concept to be without any spells for long periods, but they could be removed on occassion) and then buy some of the more unusual and possibly powerful spells with independent.

 

Michael

[Zoth]

Mnagen Combined Spell EXP. And Materia ideas

 

Originally posted by C_Zeree

Zoth,

I like the examples, not what I was thinking, cooler!

hehe neither did I I just came up with the idea and though wow that sounds cooler!

Originally posted by C_Zeree

So the purple managen would actually hold the spell?

Yeah the purple managen will have the combined spell. Basically the combined spell will be a purple managen spell requiring purple managen channeling skill; however unlike the other spells it will also require two OIF (they only have to be on the mages person) “color managen with required spellsâ€

Originally posted by C_Zeree

This could result in some very high powered purple managen. [/b]

Yes but managen that has these spell will be rare and I hope requiring two OIF will help as well. Also I plan on every managen requiring a certain amount of channeling skill, and combine spells will not only require a certain amount of purple channeling but have prerequisite form the spell the combined spell came form.

Exp.

 

Sparkling Purple Managen

40-60+ Point Multipower (flexible slots)

Focus (OAF) Expendability Very Difficalt (-1&1/2)

 

Possible Spells (includes glowing & glittering spells)

 

True illusion (Combined Spell) Image-sight, touch and, hearing group (30), Increased Size (8" radius) (+3/4), -1 to PER (3), Increased END x2 (-1/2),

Focus OIF: Sparkling Silver Managen with Greater Phantasm spell – Expendability Very Difficalt (-1)

Focus OIF: Glittering Blue Managen with Ventriloquism spell- Expendability Difficalt (-3/4)

Skill Requirements: Purple: 14, Silver: 14, Blue: 12

Active Cost: (58), Real Cost: (6), END: (12)

 

Originally posted by ShadowRaptor

yeah, and I bet he has it worked that the purple managem are the rarest to find.

The ones that have combined spell will be

Originally posted by ShadowRaptor

so how to work the system where, even if the gem is lost, you don't lose the powers themselves?

Well I kind like the loyalty idea. Hmm let’s see I think it could be done this way…

Each gem would have the limit “Independent and focus OAF at will†now this would be a 0 point limit or at lest nothing more then -1/4. The player could then align a gem with himself turning off the Independent and focus. I would allow a character only to be able to align so many gem say 2/Int or something.

Originally posted by Markdoc

Actually I kind of like the independant limitation - it changes the flavour of the game and makes the gems very much more the focus of play.

Just because the gem has Independent doesn’t mean that it is easy or hard to find, that is a function of the focus. Independent means you could lose it for good but also that the enemy could get your gem and use it against you.

Originally posted by Mavnn

I think personally I'd give players the choice, in most situations. In the same way I'd give players the choice when they buy things like magic items in character generation.

I’m gone have something like this in my system where the mage could cast Endow Spirit spell that would be found on rare purple managen and consume the purple managen in the casting of the spell. Then the player would buy the spell on its own without the focus limits.