Jkeown Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Here are a few facts... Spells are called Matrices (Sing: Matrix) Anyone can be a Spell caster with proper training. [RSR] Those who do not need training are Nye, sometimes called a Mage. [NoRSR] Because of the formulaic nature of Magic, the Spellcaster’s matrices are each a formula, a discrete spell. [No VPPs] The longer one works the magic, the more powerful the spell. [??] Opposing spell casters can use specialized counter-magics to prevent casting. [dispel ] So... what about the "...longer one casts..." how do we do this? Is there a great big store of magical power points lying around somewhere? Or do we get a limitation on the upper levels of the power... Base Effect 1 phase casting time -1/4 Better Effect 1 turn -1 1/4 Even Better Effect 1 minute... -1 1/2 Maybe just buy it as "20d6 EB (Limited to 1d6 per Phase spent casting spell, -2)" Not the kinda spells you cast without cover or delaying tactics... and so on up the time chart? Looks like a Compound Power in HD2... or something... maybe an Aid Over Time effect (not to sound too MMORPG-ish?_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Re: Trying to write a magic system... Sounds pretty straightforward. As far as the long the casting the greater the power, there is a chart in the front of the Skills Section for making Skill Rolls in greater or lesser time than normal. This could likely be adapted for the purpose you desire. Alternately you could have each caster buy an Aid to their own spells (one at a time) and work that into their casting, so that if they spend longer to cast (in reality using the Aid on themselves), the Spell they are prepping will get boosted up to the limit of the Aid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Re: Trying to write a magic system... KS is on the right track, but buying an Aid for each spell would be horribly expensive, and not very cost effective, as you would soon hit the ceiling on the Aid. However, I wanted an effect like this for a magic system I wrote up. What I'd suggest is that you give mages a gift (for others, a learnable power) called Augment, or something similar - an Aid that can increase any magical spell or power, one at a time: including Augment. To get best value, buy it with a significantly delayed return. To prevent it being used to augment multiple spells one after the other, I'd be inclined to buy it with one recoverable charge and define some simple ritual to "recover the charge". That way, the caster could start his "augment" and keep cranking it up until he reaches the point where he wishes to use it, in which case he "augments" the spell he wishes to cast and casts that. At that point, his Aid is *Gone* (the one charge limit) and he has to start the Aid cranking again from its base number of dice. In this way, the strength of the augment spell is a handy benchmark to how powerful a mage is. You also get your countermagic built in: by attacking the augment, you can trim a mage's potential back to almost nothing. For flavour, instead of Dispel, allow a magical Suppress or Drain targetted to the Augment ability - in this way you get a contest - one mage attempting to boost his spell, the other attempting to crush it. A mage built under this sytem would probably have a good range of spells, all with puny active points (they'd be cheap, so he could afford lots) and plenty of points sunk into augment and anti-augment. I might reconsider the RSR limitation - or at least not require it for augment - since mages in this system would need to keep their augment going for a while to be able to achieve much, and they'll have to use alot of points on it. If they have to make a skill roll over and over again, they'd be very likely to blow it. It would also suck to have spent 12 turns augmenting your mighty windblast spell while the rest of the party fight for their lives, and to keep the bad guys off your back, and then blow the skill roll and have to start again. The long time involved in getting up a decent level of power would be enough to keep spell-casting being a decisive feaure in most combats - if you want the Swords and Sorcery feel where magic is definately a noncombat activity, then you can require gestures, incantations and concentration on the augment, in which case the mage just stands there making mystic gestures and mumbling "Om mani padme fnee fnee fnord, etc, etc" for 5 minutes while he gathers his magical power, but he can do little stuff like light his pipe, or telekinetically mould smoke rings without any effort at all. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraRob Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Re: Trying to write a magic system... KS is on the right track, but buying an Aid for each spell would be horribly expensive, and not very cost effective, as you would soon hit the ceiling on the Aid. However, I wanted an effect like this for a magic system I wrote up. What I'd suggest is that you give mages a gift (for others, a learnable power) called Augment, or something similar - an Aid that can increase any magical spell or power, one at a time: including Augment. To get best value, buy it with a significantly delayed return. To prevent it being used to augment multiple spells one after the other, I'd be inclined to buy it with one recoverable charge and define some simple ritual to "recover the charge". cheers, Mark I would just like to comment that this is a very cool system! Excellent work Mark! (As usual!) Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsousa Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Re: Trying to write a magic system... This is a Partially Limited Power. I think you can find it at the beginning of the Limitations Chapter. I think it works something like this: Let's imagine the generic Hero Power, the EB 6d6 EB (RSR: Matrix) 20pts +2d6 EB (RSR, Extra Time-Full Phase) +2d6 EB(RSR, Extra Time-Extra Segment) +2d6 EB(RSR,Extra Time-Full Turn) I don't have my book here and will leave the cost as an exercise for the reader... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Re: Trying to write a magic system... This is a Partially Limited Power. I think you can find it at the beginning of the Limitations Chapter. I think it works something like this: Let's imagine the generic Hero Power, the EB 6d6 EB (RSR: Matrix) 20pts +2d6 EB (RSR, Extra Time-Full Phase) +2d6 EB(RSR, Extra Time-Extra Segment) +2d6 EB(RSR,Extra Time-Full Turn) I don't have my book here and will leave the cost as an exercise for the reader... If all magic works this way, I believe you could probably just double the cost of the magic and say each level of ET increases the power one notch. Sure, you theoretically have "infinite power" from a single dice of EB, but it also would take infinite time to cast it. Start the base power at ET: Full Phase and let them "fast cast" it for 1/2 power for a nice change of pace. Just another viewpoint, but basically it is what you described. I'd have to investigate the convergance of the extra time limitations, but my guess is that it will end up either at double or triple the cost of the power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Re: Trying to write a magic system... KS is on the right track, but buying an Aid for each spell would be horribly expensive, and not very cost effective, as you would soon hit the ceiling on the Aid. Not sure where you got buying an Aid for each Spell from; the "Any Power of SFX 1 at a Time" Advantage would cover it, requiring only 1 Aid: Longer Casting For More Potency: Aid Magic Spells 1d6, Can Add Maximum Of 30 Points, any Magic Spell one at a time (+1/4) (27 Active Points); Incantations (-1/4), Extra Time (Full Phase, Only to Activate, -1/4) That would also allow spellcasters to assist one another. If it should only help the casters, apply "Self Only" as well for an additional -1/2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkeown Posted July 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Re: Trying to write a magic system...and I got soooo much help! ... You guys are Da Best! Yes, the HERO bug has bitten me, what with my d20 game going strong, I thought I'd revise my Caleon setting. The original is in GURPS and several "compromises" were taken that maybe I shouldn't have... who knows... now, 6 years later, time to revise and return it to HERO. Steve told me I could print one for my own use... but I think I'll look over the webpage guidelines... this could be the start of something big... Thanks again!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 12, 2004 Report Share Posted July 12, 2004 Re: Trying to write a magic system... Welcome to the fold. Just as a point of interest, here is a page from my website regarding Magic System design (scroll down a bit). Its an incomplete draft, but their might be some bit that helps you even still: http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/GreyHEROContent/Powers/Magic.shtml I discuss "Control Factors" limiting Magic use, some "Rules of Thumb" regarding what kind of systems will have the most impact on your game, and try to organize Magic Systems into various Schemas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkeown Posted July 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 A wonderful, comprehensive... ... bit of stuff you have there.... glancing about your site... one has to wonder where the Hero Designer files are residing... Are there legal issues? I for one, am drooling over this... you are a brilliant gamer. Honestly, I would love them... the professional packages are ... well... BRILLIANT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Re: Trying to write a magic system... Thanx. As far as the packages are concerned, I only have templates made in cases where Ive generated actual characters from the material. Most of the material presented I do on paper and then put into HTML for posting. Using the "Save As Template" option in HD makes it very easy to put in a "package deal" once then save as Template and apply it again later, but Ive never sat down for the express purpose of building it all in HD for several reasons. 1) I would have to maintain 2 copies of a package -- if I change the package I have to change the template based on it too. 2) It would take a lot of spare time which I never have much of 3) It would take time away from writing more new content. Maybe one day, after Ive gotten all the holes filled in and all the content posted on both the resources side and for the Setting of San'Dora Ill go back through and create all the templates. I do provide the character files for the characters I make however on the setting website, so a determined individual could distill some of it from there. It would likely be easier to just do it directly in HD fresh however; on average it takes between 5 and 15 minutes to make a template for each package. If a person were to do such a thing and then sent me the Templates in a zip, Id be sure to post the templates and credit the contributor of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraRob Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Re: Trying to write a magic system...Alex the Water MagePlayer: NPC Val Char Cost 9 STR -1 14 DEX 12 12 CON 4 11 BODY 2 18 INT 8 15 EGO 10 14 PRE 4 14 COM 2 4/6 PD 2 3/5 ED 1 3 SPD 6 6 REC 4 24 END 0 30 STUN 8 6" RUN02" SWIM01 1/2" LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 62Cost Power END 12 Mana Focus: Aid all magic spells, any one spell at a time. 3d6, Can Add Maximum Of 40 Points (41 Active Points); 1 Recoverable Charge (-1 1/4), Spell (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4) [1 rc] 2 "Water of Chaos": Killing Attack - Ranged 1 point (5 Active Points); Spell (-1/2), OIF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Water; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) 1 2 "Water of Protection": Force Wall (1 PD/1 ED) (5 Active Points); OIF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Water; -1/2), Spell (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) 1 1 Grasping Waters: Telekinesis (2 STR) (3 Active Points); Spell (-1/2), OIF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Water; -1/2), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) 1 4 Mist of Obscuring: Darkness to Sight Group 1" radius (10 Active Points); OIF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Water; -1/2), Spell (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) 1 5 Rushing Waters: Energy Blast 1d6, Double Knockback (+3/4), Area Of Effect Nonselective (3" Cone; +3/4) (12 Active Points); OIF Expendable (Easy to obtain new Focus; Water; -1/2), Spell (-1/2), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4) 1 1 Summon Water: Change Environment 1" radius (5 Active Points); Extra Time (5 Minutes, -2), Spell (-1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4), Not under dry conditions. (-1/4) 1 2 Waters of Life: Life Support: Breath Underwater (Expanded Breathing) (5 Active Points); Spell (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4) 1 Powers Cost: 29Cost Skill 3 Climbing 12- 9 +3 with Magic 3 High Society 12- 5 KS 14- 3 Riding 12- 2 KS 11- 3 Conversation 12- Skills Cost: 28Cost Equipment END $40 Padded Cloth: Armor (2 PD/2 ED) (6 Active Points); Independent (-2), OIF Durable (-1/2), Real Armor (-1/4) 0 Water Bottles (6): Custom Power (1 Active Points) 0 Equipment costs shown above are for reference only, and are not included in Total Cost.Val Disadvantages 5 Enraged: when she sees people being hurt (Uncommon), go 8-, recover 14- 5 Psychological Limitation: Naive (Uncommon, Moderate) 10 Psychological Limitation: Sense of Duty to her Magic School and fellow students (Uncommon, Strong) 15 Psychological Limitation: afraid of fire (Very Common, Moderate) 5 Rivalry with Kally Lin, a fellow student at her school.: Professional, Rival is As Powerful, Seek to Outdo, Embarrass, or Humiliate Rival, Rival Aware of Rivalry 10 Watched by : Blue Oaks Magic School 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, Watching) Disadvantage Points: 50Base Points: 75Experience Required: 0Total Experience Available: 0Experience Unspent: 0Total Character Cost: 119 Height: 1.60 m Hair: Blue Weight: 42.00 kg Eyes: Blue Appearance: Alex is a tomboyish girl clad in the noble travelling clothes that she ran away in, she has long blue hair and blue eyes. She is pretty, but she doesn't know how to take care of herself yet.Personality: Alex is a likeable girl, but a little tomboyish and headstrong. She has a good heart and honestly wants to help people, although she still has a lot to learn about the world.Quote:"Oh? Your little boy is locked in the house? Sure, I can break the door open for you..."Background: Alexandra von Neuman ("Alex" to her friends), is the daughter of a noble family who possessed "the gift", which both made her unsuitable to inherit the family line and a potential embarassment to her noble parents in a society where Mages are not always welcome. Thus they shuffled her off to the Blue Oaks magic school as quickly as they could, hoping she would be able to learn enough control of her powers to hide them properly. She had a happy, if somewhat strict upbringing at Blue Oaks, showing a natural talent for water magic, and becoming a rival with one of her classmates, Kally Lin. At the age of 16 Alex decided to return home to the family manor, but found her own family cold and indifferent towards her. Distraught, she ran away and started to wander the world, looking for a purpose in life and using her magic to help her survive.Powers/Tactics: Alex is a Water User, and carries around her waist 6 water bottles she uses in doing her magic. Normally she will use the water to restrain other people ("Grasping Waters") or just put up a wall between herself and any threat ("Protective Waters"). If push comes to shove she will try to escape ("Mist of Obscuring") or push the enemy away ("Rushing Waters"), she will almost never use water to hurt people unless she is trying to bluff them away. ("Water of Chaos"). Keep in mind she has to summon up available mana and "charge" her spells before they are really effective, which means 2 or 3 phases of just charging up before she lets loose with anything. If she thinks there might be trouble, she can pick a spell and prepare it before hand but the mana she has pooled for the spell will slowly fade away.Campaign Use: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraRob Posted July 13, 2004 Report Share Posted July 13, 2004 Re: Trying to write a magic system... This is my take on what MarkDoc was talking about, which I think is a very cool idea...the mage must pick their spell and then slowly gather the local mana into the spell before casting it. This means the character will have to take a couple phases to build a spell up before being able to throw it at full power, or can cast it at whatever power level they have available. Actually, something occured to me while I was making this...with this magic system a wizard duel is a cross between chess and "chicken"...It's "chicken" in that the longer you cast, the better chance of taking out your opponent, but the longer you cast the better chance he might nail you with a spell first! As well, the "chess" aspect comes in in choosing just the right spell, or outthinking your opponent by choosing a quick defensive spell over an aggressive one...Or maybe flashing him....all sorts of trickery could be used here.... I have to say, I like this system a lot! Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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