Should all skills be everyman to some degree?

[rjcurrie]

Re: Should all skills be everyman to some degree?

 

I think that Hero definitely lacks a mechanic for resolving this kind of situation. Lying without Persuasion' date=' bribing without Bribery, etc... there should be a rule for this, since it is a common occurrence. Definitely something I will be mentioning on that far off, distant day when 6th Edition is announced.[/quote']

It's also a good topic for Steve to keep in mind for The Ultimate Skill.

 

Rod

[schir1964]

Re: Should all skills be everyman to some degree?

 

I guess my suggested system doesn't gel with anyone. Oh well, can't win them all the time. (8^D)

 

- Christopher Mullins

[arcady]

Re: Should all skills be everyman to some degree?

 

Your system never addressed what to do with skills that are not everyman skills. Figure that out, and you have something.

[schir1964]

Re: Should all skills be everyman to some degree?

 

Oh sorry. I've always rated anything below Familiarity as Unskilled 5- Roll.

 

There you go.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Agemegos]

Re: Should all skills be everyman to some degree?

 

The notion that all skills should be designated as everyman skills is analogous to the notion that given enough time and enough laptops' date=' an infinite number of monkeys could knock out the assembled works of Shakespeare.[/quote']

 

I have seen a pilot study of this, though it used only ten monkeys.

 

The monkeys did not produce any Shakespeare, nor indeed any English poet. They pissed on the keyboard and fjung dung at the PC, and a brave one beat teh monitor with a stick.

 

Perhaps we need more monkeys.

[Solomon]

Re: Should all skills be everyman to some degree?

 

Something that should be remembered is, not every task requires a Skill roll. Rolls are only required when using a Skill "in difficult or dangerous situations, when under pressure, when success is crucial or unlikely, or when in combat".

 

Fixing a car in your back yard without training might be time-consuming and certainly requires resourcefulness and hard work, but I don't think I'd ask a Skill roll for it as a GM. I'd ask a Skill roll to fix the same car before the Zombie Ninjas get to your block, though.

 

Is finding your way out of a wood a "difficult or dangerous situation"? Certainly, in real life, but in heroic fiction (and in RPGs as well) no character should starve to death just 'cause he can't collect berries and mushrooms. Now, getting out of the same wood while fleeing the Zombie Ninjas... that would require a Skill roll IMO, and a character without a skill just woudn't stand a chance.

 

Consider this: a decently skilled worker often only has a 11- roll on his relevant Skills. So, a task that requires an unmodified Skill roll is a task a decent professional stands an almost even chance of failing. Even a simple Familiarity gives you a 25% chance of success. A Familiarity gives you a one-in-four shot at tasks trained professionals would find strenuous. The fact that most humans can perform most everyday tasks doesn't imply everything should be an Everyman Skill, IMHO.

[Old Man]

Re: Should all skills be everyman to some degree?

 

So it is agreed that these skills should not be everyman right?

 

The thing that should be considered is that mall girls survival depends more on the skills of other people than her own. Of course Deduction IS an everyman skill, so she might be able to use that.

[Old Man]

Re: Should all skills be everyman to some degree?

 

Oh yeah I should mention that people get lost in the mountains of Hawaii all the time. I don't get it, if you go down, you'll hit the ocean, how can you get too lost to figure that out?

[tesuji]

Re: Should all skills be everyman to some degree?

 

Oh yeah I should mention that people get lost in the mountains of Hawaii all the time. I don't get it' date=' if you go down, you'll hit the ocean, how can you get too lost to figure that out?[/quote']

 

alcohol immediately comes ti mind.

[Tom Carman]

Re: Should all skills be everyman to some degree?

 

Interestingly enough in the Star Hero setting Computer Programming is actually a rarer skill. Computers are so user friendly and well programed you don't need it at all. "Hello computer' date=' I'd like to research this and that." "Working...." It would be like having "Operate Toaster skill" [/quote']

Personally, I think elementary computer programming should be a required course in high school. Nothing advanced, just a course in simple BASIC (this being precisely what BASIC was written for in the first place - Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code.) Even if the students never again programmed a computer, the exposure to logical thinking and step-by-step procedure ought to come in handy.

[caris]

Re: Should all skills be everyman to some degree?

 

Personally' date=' I think elementary computer programming should be a required course in high school. Nothing advanced, just a course in simple BASIC (this being precisely what BASIC was written for in the first place - Beginners All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code.) Even if the students never again programmed a computer, the exposure to logical thinking and step-by-step procedure ought to come in handy.[/quote']

Isn't that the whole point of teaching Geometry?

[KA.]

Re: Should all skills be everyman to some degree?

 

I just started reading this thread, so I have several points to make.

(Please drink something with caffeine to avoid feeling drowsy.)

 

1) I don't think every skill should be Everyman.

There is a mechanism to cover Skills you don't have.

Roll the relevant Characteristic Roll, with appropriate minuses.

Steve said it, and it makes sense to me.

A very Dexterous person should have some chance of performing a backflip.

But let's face it, how many are going to do it on their first try, with no training at all?

If you spend the time to "teach yourself" how to do it, that is still training, at least enough for a Familiarity.

 

2) Not everything requires a Skill Roll!

Sorry, didn't mean to shout, but this seems to be getting glossed over by the people who want everything to be Everyman.

If Missy is in the woods on a summer day, (High 84, Low 68, 10% Chance of Evening Showers) why on Earth would she DIE because she did not have Survival?

This is Hero, not D&D!

Are the woods filled with Cave Bears and Dire Wolves?

It takes days to die from lack of water, even more days to die from lack of food, and unless she is buck naked and sleeping in a puddle, even hypothermia is only a very remote possibility!

I wouldn't require a Survival roll to have enough sense to get under a tree if it started raining, or to avoid randomly sticking every plant I saw in my mouth to see if it was poisonous. And if Missy is really so incredibly stupid that she would eat everything she saw, then in the real world she would eventually die in the woods (and probably would have died crossing a street before she reached puberty).

The GM is supposed to know what the conditions are in his own campaign.

Do people take 3d6 Killing damage from going without water for 24 hours?

If they do, then I bet everybody buys Survival at the highest level allowed.

Otherwise, most characters are going to survive by "winging it", making INT rolls when absolutely necessary, and because it takes several days to die in most circumstances.

 

As far as the other examples.

Computer programming. Get the smartest person you know, who has zero experience with computers. Sit them down in front of your computer. Pull up a website, and click on "View Source". Tell them that instead of the picture on the screen, you want them to get it to display a picture that you have stored on your PC.

To be sporting, give them the name of the new picture file.

Come back in five minutes.

Come back in an hour.

Come back around bedtime and tell them to forget it, so they don't stay up all night.

Realistically, what are the odds that by randomly typing on a page of HTML, they will magically cause the new picture to be displayed?

 

I don't say this out of spite. I say it out of personal knowledge.

 

For many years, I knew nothing about cars, other than the fact that they ran on gas and used oil in some fashion. I knew how to drive one, but that was it.

There were times I would break down, open the hood, and just stare at the parts in front of me. I am quite intelligent, I just knew nothing about cars.

I could stare at the maze of pipes, wires, and metal all day, and have no idea which bunch of stuff was a starter, or an alternator. Being "smart" did nothing.

And I did sometimes try random wiggling, banging, and pushing of the things under the hood, but the chances of that actually fixing something, with no knowledge of what I was messing with, was zero.

I can fix many things on my car now, because I bought manuals, asked for advice, and learned, at least a Familiarity, with this skill. But before that, my chance of fixing something was zero. I was making my INT roll, at -8, and failing.

On the other hand, I was able to put gas in my car, check the oil, check the air in the tires, and wash and wax my car.

Why?

Because those things don't require a "car repair" skill roll.

 

3) I like schir1964's Task Level Modifiers. I am going to start using them in my game.

 

4) Left out an important one.

Who cares?

Why do I seem so adamant on this?

Two things.

a) I like for players to spend points on things other than just upping their DEX, CON, and Dice of Damage. Why buy Skills if the rolls are free?

Also, this would penalize those who wanted to buy Skills.

If anyone has a chance to decode something, why buy Cryptography?

Just let everyone sit around making their free guess until someone gets it, or just remove Skill use from the game entirely?

This may sound totally contradictory, but it isn't.

I don't want Hero to become a game where you "have to" have a Skill and Roll for everything.

By making everything Everyman, you have now made it nearly mandatory to actually make rolls for everything.

Right now, I only have people make Skill rolls for Skills they have under appropriately difficult circumstances.

But if everyone has everything, then the game could quickly become:

GM : "Okay, you made it back to your base, what is everyone doing?"

TimeMaster : "I'm hungry. I want to order a Pizza."

GM : "Okay. Roll Systems Operation to use the phone.

Then, if you make that, roll Oratory to be make sure that the guy on the phone can hear you.

And if you want to get the special, you have to roll Trading."

 

(By the way, if your current game looks like this, your problem is not the Hero rules, it is your GM!)

 

I would rather just give people a chance to do things that anyone could do with no roll, than somehow imply that everyone actually had some wellspring of specialized knowledge, that would give a six year-old with no training a chance to land a 747 in a blizzard. That is a little too "RPG" for me.

 

KA.