Trebuchet Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 This is what I came up with for a field to kill germs and viruses in a sick bay: Sterility Field: RKA 1 point (vs. PD), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Penetrating (+1/2), AOE (8" Any Area; +1 3/4), Conforming (+1/2) (24 Active Points); OIF Bulky (-1), No Range (Only within Sick Bay) (-1/2), Only vs. bacteria and viruses (-1/4) (uses END Reserve) Comments or suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Re: Surgical Sterility Field Does it only target surface bacteria I hope so otherwise all the medical staff will lose their digestive tract bacteria? Wouldn’t it be easier to just buy life support immunity against diseases with area effect? A hand held version of this would make quiet a handy medical tool for removing infection from wounds perhaps. A wearable version with a smaller range would be great for planetary excursions as would a field portable one for setting up a safe basecamp. One question is how does it work does it target specific bacteria and viruses {so you would have to program it fro each target} or is it a general anti-pathogen field in which case are there negative side effects to long term exposure and could it harm non humans with bacteria like physiognomy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Zero Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Re: Surgical Sterility Field Why not just do it with Change Environment... it seems like that would be a much easier. Jonathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Re: Surgical Sterility Field How about "Only against HARMFUL bacteria or viruses?" Although Change Environment is probably the better course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Re: Surgical Sterility Field Wouldn’t it be easier to just buy life support immunity against diseases with area effect? That's how I'd do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted August 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Re: Surgical Sterility Field I first thought of CE actually. But Change Environment only provides penalties. What would I penalize to create a sterile field? "-4 to bacterial growth"? LS: Diseases works as medications, but if it's only in a hospital room (Area Effect) the character's illness will return as soon as he leaves sick bay. Furthermore, an bacterial or viral infection is not a disease and I see no reason LS: All Terrestrial Diseases will prevent that. Changing my version to "Only Effects Harmful Bacteria and Germs" is a good idea; although I thought it would clearly affect surface germs anyway. If it can't penetrate the skin of a human it obviously can't kill bacteria inside. Thanks for the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyDrug Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Re: Surgical Sterility Field I first thought of CE actually. But Change Environment only provides penalties. What would I penalize to create a sterile field? "-4 to bacterial growth"? good point LS: Diseases works as medications, but if it's only in a hospital room (Area Effect) the character's illness will return as soon as he leaves sick bay. Furthermore, an bacterial or viral infection is not a disease and I see no reason LS: All Terrestrial Diseases will prevent that. Isn't that the point? It's a sterility field to create a clean surgical/treatment area, right? LS: All Terrestrial Diseases includes viral or bacterial infections, don't get too caught up in word semantics. Changing my version to "Only Effects Harmful Bacteria and Germs" is a good idea; although I thought it would clearly affect surface germs anyway. If it can't penetrate the skin of a human it obviously can't kill bacteria inside. Thanks for the input. The problem I have with this, unless your game differs here, is that most diseases in Hero are created not as creatures with BOD stats but as Drains. In which case, a RKA will not effect them. What about a Dispel vs. Drains, Only Against Harmful Bacteria & Germs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcL63 Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Re: Surgical Sterility Field Why not just do it with Change Environment... it seems like that would be a much easier. Jonathan I've often seen CE recommended for constructs for which I feel it is inappropriate. Subsequent remarks about life support and drains notwithstanding, this is a case where my instinct is that CE is the right way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted August 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Re: Surgical Sterility Field The problem I have with this, unless your game differs here, is that most diseases in Hero are created not as creatures with BOD stats but as Drains. In which case, a RKA will not effect them. What about a Dispel vs. Drains, Only Against Harmful Bacteria & Germs? In our game (as it is supposed to be in all Hero games) special effect trumps power construction. Whether a disease or toxin is built as a Drain or Suppress is irrelevant. It's treated like a disease or poison and cured accordingly. Except for diseases specifically designed (i.e.; bioengineered) as an attack, I woud never permit a disease to be built as a Power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcL63 Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Re: Surgical Sterility Field In our game (as it is supposed to be in all Hero games) special effect trumps power construction. Whether a disease or toxin is built as a Drain or Suppress is irrelevant. It's treated like a disease or poison and cured accordingly. Except for diseases specifically designed (i.e.; bioengineered) as an attack, I woud never permit a disease to be built as a Power. Interesting point about SFX versus power constructs there Treb, one that I myself feel is all too often forgotten. But following on from your logic, wouldn't the SFX of a surgical sterility field be to augment the effects of medical skills, be they of a character or an autodoc of some sort? In this case couldn't the CE penalties effectively act as bonuses to these skill rolls and/or CON rolls. I mean, if you don't let diseases be built as powers (for the good reasons you put forward), why then should anti-disease counter-measures be KA attack powers? You seem to be contradicting yourself here, unless you've somehow returned to the idea of CE and I didn't notice. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Re: Surgical Sterility Field LS: Diseases works as medications' date=' but if it's only in a hospital room (Area Effect) the character's illness will return as soon as he leaves sick bay. Furthermore, an bacterial or viral infection is not a disease and I see no reason LS: All Terrestrial Diseases will prevent that. [/quote'] Would disagree, infections are definitely a disease. I was thinking a sterile surgical field, on rereading I now see you had more like a UV sterilizer in mind. (Are you old enough to remember when these were standard equiptment in barber shops?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Re: Surgical Sterility Field Wouldn’t it be easier to just buy life support immunity against diseases with area effect? As with McCoy, this is how I'd build it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Zero Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Re: Surgical Sterility Field As with McCoy' date=' this is how I'd build it.[/quote'] Actually, I have a wilder idea... why even build it. Just say there is a device that does that. While I love the hero system, there is really no need to build all this stuff, and I have never really seen the reason to point everything out like this. I know the arguement is that the character's will need to pay points for it.. the question arises, does it really matter if they pay points. If you want the players to have it then they do, it it does what it should and if you don't want them to have it then it doesn't work. If you are really determined to point out the things a ship can do like sterility fields and such then simply give them a VPP labeled "mundane things a ship can do". This kind of device is something that doesn't need stats... your time figuring this out could be spent on things like more detail for the story. Jonathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcL63 Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Re: Surgical Sterility Field Actually' date=' I have a wilder idea... why even build it.[/quote']Because it's there? Just say there is a device that does that. While I love the hero system, there is really no need to build all this stuff, and I have never really seen the reason to point everything out like this. I know the arguement is that the character's will need to pay points for it.. the question arises, does it really matter if they pay points. If you want the players to have it then they do, it it does what it should and if you don't want them to have it then it doesn't work. If you are really determined to point out the things a ship can do like sterility fields and such then simply give them a VPP labeled "mundane things a ship can do". This kind of device is something that doesn't need stats... your time figuring this out could be spent on things like more detail for the story. Jonathan Flippancy aside, that's a good point, as I know from experience of designing starships myself. I must admit that I am someone who likes to dot all the i's and cross all the t's with designs. Apart from being an obsessive (that's as rude as I'm going to get about myself), I like doing this because often you end up having to add in limitations that make things much more interesting. All the same, one thing I learnt from my experience of ship design is that you literally can't design everything, because you can't think of everything in advance. Sooner or later the players are going to ask for something that logically should be available, and if you stick too fast to the 'design all' route, you might end up being silly and not giving it to them. PS. I still don't really like the LF option, but there you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzSNAFU Posted August 10, 2004 Report Share Posted August 10, 2004 Re: Surgical Sterility Field This is what I came up with for a field to kill germs and viruses in a sick bay: Sterility Field: RKA 1 point (vs. PD), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Penetrating (+1/2), AOE (8" Any Area; +1 3/4), Conforming (+1/2) (24 Active Points); OIF Bulky (-1), No Range (Only within Sick Bay) (-1/2), Only vs. bacteria and viruses (-1/4) (uses END Reserve) Comments or suggestions? i have to ask why penetrating? 1 pip killing penetrating does nothing true? you dont even get the chance of penetrating..? but yes i agree with the others life support with an area would be the way i would do it... allthough this will not actually kill the bacteria as protect from them, .. just a thought snafu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted August 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Re: Surgical Sterility Field Actually' date=' I have a wilder idea... why even build it. Just say there is a device that does that. While I love the hero system, there is really no need to build all this stuff, and I have never really seen the reason to point everything out like this.[/quote']Actually, I've decided this is the best advice. I'll just declare the Sick Bay is fully equipped and leave it at that. Does it really need to be determined if it's got a disinfectant fog or some type of UV-light field to prevent disease vectors from spreading? Of course it would, but there's no reason to actually build it. Some more game-relevant items like Aid and Healing I'll go ahead and buy. But Count Zero is absolutely right: I'm sweating the details too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Posted August 14, 2004 Report Share Posted August 14, 2004 Re: Surgical Sterility Field But Count Zero is absolutely right: I'm sweating the details too much. It's only "too much" if it isn't FUN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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