lapsedgamer Posted August 13, 2004 Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates The Ultimates go where the mainstream comic could't go. All the personality quirks and flaws existed in the original characters, but The Ultimates can really play with them. Come on, the Hulk used as a weapon of mass destruction...brilliant writing. I also like Thor not always playing along with the powers that be. Also: The line Cap had about The "A" on his head not standing for France was also inspired. If those weren't the words of an modern American icon, I don't know what words would be. Okay, so it's closer to over- the-top John Wayne or Rambo than Gary Cooper or Jimmy Stewart, but I can't help but imagine that there are people all over with that panel posted on their walls or cubicles or saved as wallpaper on their desktops. I'm not saying I agree with the entire philosophy of bashing France, just that Cap was channeling a certain common Middle American sentiment. The nature of icons chage with the times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Toki Posted August 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates I just enjoy the interpretations that the Ultimate line has done with the characters. Playing in that Universe at least to me would be a blast! I think Thor would have the most points powerwise... but I doubt any would be over more then 700 points... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted August 13, 2004 Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates I'll agree there. Ultimate Captiain America is still heroic. Not quite the admirable icon he is in mainstream Marvel' date=' but not a bad guy. Tony Stark as well seems to be quite decent (he is using his dying days to help people so can be forgiven some womanizing and drinking). Thor and Wasp seem Heroic as well.[/quote'] Not to mention Nick Fury, at least some of the X-Men, and probably Spider-man ( haven't read Ult Spidey ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted August 13, 2004 Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates I just enjoy the interpretations that the Ultimate line has done with the characters. Playing in that Universe at least to me would be a blast! I think Thor would have the most points powerwise... but I doubt any would be over more then 700 points... Not with *those* AoE RKAs he was tossing in 12-13. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted August 13, 2004 Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates a quick list of thors powers super strength and toughness flight huge energyblast and RKa with variable advantages megascale teleport useable by up 50 ish others or area effect perhaps with extra weight dimensional travel also with area effect and extra weight wonking great hammer so huge HA an KHA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Toki Posted August 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates a quick list of thors powers super strength and toughness flight huge energyblast and RKa with variable advantages megascale teleport useable by up 50 ish others or area effect perhaps with extra weight dimensional travel also with area effect and extra weight wonking great hammer so huge HA an KHA New to HERO so I guess I was off... Thor is the man then... but the rest could be b uilt with 500-600 or less I hope... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theron Posted August 13, 2004 Report Share Posted August 13, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates Thor's also got some sort of mind reading or omniscience or something. Remember how he shut up Banner by revealing his secrets in front of Fury? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted August 14, 2004 Report Share Posted August 14, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates a quick list of thors powers super strength and toughness flight huge energyblast and RKa with variable advantages megascale teleport useable by up 50 ish others or area effect perhaps with extra weight dimensional travel also with area effect and extra weight wonking great hammer so huge HA an KHA Which ones can't he use simultaneously? That is, which can be put in a multipower? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted August 14, 2004 Report Share Posted August 14, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates Which ones can't he use simultaneously? That is' date=' which can be put in a multipower?[/quote'] Taking a stab at it. The Hammer attacks (HTH and HKA), the EB/RKA and that Dimensional Shift (Teleport and Extra Dimensional Movement). Those last two seem to have to some substantial warm up time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted August 14, 2004 Report Share Posted August 14, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates I had a go at building Thor but on looking at issue and again how on earth do you build that energy blast it took out 6 or 7 of those mother ships and there 20 blocks long plus a bunch of fighters and all spread over a couple of kilometers. Meanwhile iron man has a force field that will stand up to a ground zero atomic bomb [or what ever it was that fried all those helicarriers] and covers 500 square meters. He can also fly faster than a jet fighter, dead lift several tons and has enough strength and flight speed to move one of those alien battle ships off course. And that’s before you even get into how smart Tony stark is supposed to be. The rest of the team except hulk and maybe cap are probably doable on 400 to 500 points they are mostly one trick pony. Wasp has shrinking flight and energy blasts giant man grows. Nick Fury has a lot of powers {or at least he did in return to weapon x and ultimate six]} but I'm not sure how much 'subject to budgetary considerations' is worth for a disadvantage. I guess you could write it up as fuel dependent with a rare and expensive uncommon fuel or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted August 15, 2004 Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates a quick list of thors powers super strength and toughness flight huge energyblast and RKa with variable advantages megascale teleport useable by up 50 ish others or area effect perhaps with extra weight dimensional travel also with area effect and extra weight wonking great hammer so huge HA an KHA Don't forget: -General weather control ( CE at least ) -Some undefined sensory/perceptive abilities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted August 15, 2004 Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates New to HERO so I guess I was off... Thor is the man then... but the rest could be b uilt with 500-600 or less I hope... Not Cap or Iron Man. Normal 616 Cap is about 750 points, and Ult Cap has more stuffed added than removed. As for Iron Man, okay, nuke-blocking force wall. Unless you want to let him have an ED travel-based unbreachable force field. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted August 15, 2004 Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates Which ones can't he use simultaneously? That is' date=' which can be put in a multipower?[/quote'] Well, I don't recall him using big lightning bolts at the same time as lightning-charged hammer or teleportation or dimensional travel. OTOH, thats one frickin' *huge* multipower or VPP pool base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted August 15, 2004 Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates Just as an aside, the way I look at normal 616 Cap is, basically, similar to Fiacho. Both have similar characteristics and skills, though obviously details on which skills is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted August 15, 2004 Report Share Posted August 15, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates The think I like most about ultimate cap is he comes off like a down and dirty batman. Though im not sure if he has the saim group tactics skill as the standard universe version Its kind of unclear in the abttel with hulk he did seem to have a constant run of plans going on. My favorite cap tactics moments are Tricking the Hulk into smashing the Skrull by knowing how to push his buttons. In ultimate war he uses his knowledge of wolverines past to put him off balance before hitting him with an assault rifle he concealed behind his shield and then wailing on him. And finally whilst fighting Giant man using the big guys own fingers and lip as a handhold to swing up and boot him in the face before dropping a pile of heavy pipes on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates Yeah, he does fight dirty. I wouldn't say Batman, though, so much as he's what you get if you take 40s era soldier-taught fighting techniques, and used them as a basis for a physical and mental prodigy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates I meant in terms of tactical planning he's more like batman than Reed Richards say in that he is constantly evaluating his enemy and has several plans worked out for every eventuality instead of just coming up with a brilliant plan to suit those particular circumstances every time. Does anyone have any suggestions for a benchmark to set the ultimate power level I was thinking either saying hulk hasn’t changed or work from the final fight in ultimate war as the ultimate x men have about times as many published comics to work from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapsedgamer Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates I think Ultimates Iron Man did not get much of a power up. He got some new toys, but he lost some things too. Gone is the carry-my-armor-in-a-suitcase-and-change-in-one-phase approach. He needs a launcher and retrieval team, as well as a whole support staff. He runs out of power and needs to blackout a whole city to power up. The suit is apparently modular, so you could conceivaly say that you can disable systems one at a time. For example, The Hulk stripping his armor off during their fight in Volume 1. The traditional Iron Man I remember alsmost never had that problem. I see a lot of extra time limitations involved and a better portrayal of the focus limitations inherent in a powered armor character. Giant Man is kind of a wuss now. He has yet to be effective in combat against anyone. A strange, yet interesting power down. Not so much a removal of powers as a different representation of his minset. He really is not a heroic person, as he has been portrayed up until now. I like the new take on Hawkeye. He's about the same, but somehow he's cooler. The same with Cap. The Hulk is about the same, too. I agree. They are treating Thor more like a true mythological figure. I am interested to see how far they take that. He could be getting a big power up if all this stuff he's claiming is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates I get the feeling that the iron man armour is a first prototype its got a lot of kinks and bugs in it if you think of it as the kind of lame original gold armour from the very start of the avengers which didn't Have flight had some quiet nifty gadgets but wasn't really that greatand then you have decades of development of the armour and iron man becomes well pretty much godlike with all the many diffrent suits for every conceivable job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted August 16, 2004 Report Share Posted August 16, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates Well, he's had prior armors, but the current one is the new one, so it still has bugs. OTOH, I have a hard time complaining about any armor with a nuke-proof Force Wall. As for the characters: Cap got a serious upgrade. Iron Man is about the same, trading in more support and power limits for some really powerful gadgets. Thor seems to have traded out some of his brickness for improved magical abilities. Giant Man is nearly useless. Wasp is not as effective overall, less strength and weaker blasts. Hulk doesn't have the same ludicrous feats, but for the physics set is about the same. Black Widow got a major upgrade. Hawkeye. . . is freakin' weird, in his skills. And Falcon, we don't know yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualplayer Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates I am of mixed emotions concerning The Ultimates. Bryan Hitch's art is off the charts but he can't hit a print schedule to save his life. Millar can write testosterone but can't do estrogen at all. The team name is just as lame in comics as it was in HERO, unless you were trying to get a half phase jump while your opponents are laughing. Ultimate Cap has to have stats more in the Spider-Man range. What kind of Breakfall roll do you need to jump out of a plane w/o a parachute? Ride an air-dropped tank to the ground and survive? His best quote (about France) is a modern, reactionary view and not really appropriate to a doughboy from WWII. I do like that Ult-Cap uses what will get the job done, including firearms and mech-cavalry, and I like the Leatherneck attitude they gave him. Iron Man is like a Patriot missile with arms. Not quite sure what he does that couldn't be automated and remote controlled. The Launch Crew is kinda cool but the prep time got to be like watching the Voltron crew commuting to their lions every damn episode and wondering why they didn't park a little frickin' closer. I wouldn't want to see them streamline the suit to suitcase size, but Ult-Tony is chained to Manhattan or he doesn't get to play because the suit does not travel well. Giant Man (boy, I wish they would have renamed him) is being kicked around like a red-headed step child because otherwise you don't get to have Ultimate Ultron. Now in Champions Growth to just shy of 60 ft is impressive, but Hank comes in third (maybe fourth) in Strength for the Ultimates. The GM really should have helped him make his character. Ult-Hulk is dumb Mr. Fixit. Amusing, but he's done nearly as much damage as Ult-Magneto. He's useless as a future teammate unless they whip out the Ultimate Plot Device and pardon him. They have made no bones about Ult-Hulk killing MANY people. Ult-Wasp pisses me off to no extent. She shrank out of her clothes and got mugged by ants. Whoopee! She has been decoration and victim so far. She used to be Hank's DNPC and now she's Steve's. Fine female characterization from the British minister. Ult-Thor is a plot device, even moreso than in Marvel 616. I like him, don't get me wrong, but he outclasses the rest of the team. All of the godly power and none of the disadvantages. Unless "Must Save the Whales" is worth more points than I thought. He's like a couple of Earth First-ers that I used to know who seemed sincere but were really there for the hippy chick booty. No one has mentioned Ult-Widow yet. I dig her, although I couldn't begin to gauge her abilities. I don't think she is a ex-ballet dancer, secret agent anymore, more like something out of the Weapon X project. Sadly I can't identify with any of them. Every Ultimates issue is like watching Independence Day, and you can only watch that movie so many times. They just don't hold up over time. I made it 50~ issues into Ultimate Spider-Man, all of Ultimate Marvel Team-Up, 6 issues into Ultimate X-Men, 10 issues into Ultimates and am thinking about giving Ultimate FF a try now that Warren Ellis is writing it. Not real sure how I feel about a Dr. Doom with hooves though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates I don't think Hulk is ever *meant* to be an ally. His closest thing is "Living WMD to unleash on enemies when all else fails." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrooveD70 Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates I dig the Ult lines too. I was suprised because when I first heard about it, I thought it would suck too no end. But I love the Spidey, X-men, Ultimates, and the FF is pretty good too. Good thing because Jeff Loeb was Subconsiously stealing me away to DC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates Hmm well cap Didn’t leap out of the plane he used the ejection seat and I’m pretty sure the tank had some sort of nifty system to keep him alive when it hit that’s why he thanked the tech department on landing. Hank Pym was always a bit of a lightweight on the team the ability to grow really tall or really small and talk to ants wow nifty he exists to be team science bod. Tony Stark is team tech boffin Wasp is actually fairly potent in her niche she doesn’t hit that hard but hard enough to stun most targets with a few stings obviously not the lead skrull but he was trading punches with hulk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metaphysician Posted August 17, 2004 Report Share Posted August 17, 2004 Re: I love The Ultimates He used the ejection seat to leap out, but he was strapped to neither chair nor parachute. He landed free ( and unharmed ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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