Negative CSLs (or other NegSLs, I guess) as Adjustment Power

[JeffreyWKramer]

On my "Sharing the Wealth" thread on the Champions Forum, I've been posting some characters. One of the characters is a guy who uses guns, and who has a Multipower that is linked to the guns, reflecting different effects he could inflict on his victims (shot to the leg = Drain vs. Running, shot to the head = Drain vs. INT, etc.) I also decided to do something with Negative Combat Skill Levels, to reflect impairning shots that would make the target less able to fight back, dodge, etc (NCSL to OCV or DCV).

 

The problem is, that power construct doesn't work well with the special effects, as NegCSLs (and other NegSLs, for that matter) are bought as a Constant Power. It wouldn't make sense for a gunshot wound to require the shooter to keep pumping END into the effect, not be able to switch to a different MP slot, etc.

 

So, what I did was, using the Hero Builder option for Custom Power, built a variant version of Negative Combat Skill Levels as an Adjustment Power. In this case, one Neg CSL = Active Cost 5 pts (same as for regular Neg CSL), but the power becomes Instant rather than Constant, and because it's an Adjustment Power, it still has No Range, fades at 5 pts per turn, and is countered by Power Defense (all standard for Adjustment Powers).

 

I think the Fade at 5/turn and having a defense, vs the regular CSL power being Instant and having no defense, is a pretty balanced trade-off.

 

Any opinions there?

[OddHat]

Re: Negative CSLs (or other NegSLs, I guess) as Adjustment Power

 

I think I'd rather just stick with a Dex drain or a Flash for that effect. I can't think of a gunshot would that woul impose CV penalties without effecting other uses of Dex as well.

[JJR]

Re: Negative CSLs (or other NegSLs, I guess) as Adjustment Power

 

I think I'd rather just stick with a Dex drain or a Flash for that effect. I can't think of a gunshot would that woul impose CV penalties without effecting other uses of Dex as well.

Or you can just purchase the dexterity drain with a limitation: only affects cv, no other aspect of dexterity: -1/4. That would give the buyer the cv penalties without interfering with dexterity rolls or acting time in combat.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Negative CSLs (or other NegSLs, I guess) as Adjustment Power

 

One certainly could use a DEX Drain for that effect, I suppose - though I think a DEX Drain that impacted only one aspect of CV and no other aspects of DEX (skill rolls, initiative, etc.) would be more like a -1 Lim than a -1/4 - which would put it effectively at the same cost of doing the CSL as an Adjustment Power!

 

I'm afraid I don't see the rationale for using a Flash for that effect, though, as Flash Defense doesn't make sense for the special effect.

 

While one's own tastes might lend more toward doing this as a DEX Drain, does anyone see a problem of doing it as I did in terms of game balance or mechanics?

[OddHat]

Re: Negative CSLs (or other NegSLs, I guess) as Adjustment Power

 

From a mechanics POV, it looks like it would work out well enogh. Maybe a little too cost effective, then many unusual powers and power combos are more so.

 

In a campaign I was running I'd probably still ask you to go with the Dex Drain.

[Old Man]

Re: Negative CSLs (or other NegSLs, I guess) as Adjustment Power

 

Couldn't you buy the NegCSLs with Charges that last for...1 minute? Then you wouldn't have to spend END and could switch to a different slot in your Multipower.

 

Depending on the sfx you might look into Suppress DEX with Charges that last a minute or so.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Negative CSLs (or other NegSLs, I guess) as Adjustment Power

 

Couldn't you buy the NegCSLs with Charges that last for...1 minute? Then you wouldn't have to spend END and could switch to a different slot in your Multipower.

 

Depending on the sfx you might look into Suppress DEX with Charges that last a minute or so.

 

Yep, one can buy NegSLs and NegCSLs with Continuing Charges. That option didn't work as neatly with the power construct I was using (a Multipower with some Modifiers bought on the MP base rather than on the individual slots), which is why I considered a different option, but that is a perfectly valid way to do it in general.

 

BTW, does anyone other than me have any problem with the basic NegCSL and NegSL Power *not* having any form of standardized defense? That's true of very, very few things in the game. Even in the case of Darkness, having the right senses more or less nullifies the power, and of course things like Power Defense, Lack of Weakness, Flash Defense, Hardened Defenses and Life Support nullify lots of other funky attacks... but as written, there is *nothing* that in and of itself stops NegativeSL/CSLs, other than Desolidification (which can itself be bypassed) or being out of range.

[OddHat]

Re: Negative CSLs (or other NegSLs, I guess) as Adjustment Power

 

BTW' date=' does anyone other than me have any problem with the basic NegCSL and NegSL Power *not* having any form of standardized defense? That's true of very, very few things in the game. Even in the case of Darkness, having the right senses more or less nullifies the power, and of course things like Power Defense, Lack of Weakness, Flash Defense, Hardened Defenses and Life Support nullify lots of other funky attacks... but as written, there is *nothing* that in and of itself stops NegativeSL/CSLs, other than Desolidification (which can itself be bypassed) or being out of range.[/quote']

 

It's one of the things I dislike about them. On the other hand, power defense already defends against too many special effects (in my opinion). If a player did try to build a character with them, I might ask for some sort of Skill versus Skill contest as part of the power, and/or look for a defense that seemed to fit the special effect.

[SirViss]

Re: Negative CSLs (or other NegSLs, I guess) as Adjustment Power

 

Instead of Continuing Charges, you could buy them with Uncontrolled (must Heal Back Damage) or (Must take a minute to massage numb limb). Or some such.

 

(I hope this made sense.)

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Negative CSLs (or other NegSLs, I guess) as Adjustment Power

 

It's one of the things I dislike about them. On the other hand' date=' power defense already defends against too many special effects (in my opinion). [/quote']

 

Yeah, no argument there. Unfortunately, a great many cool concepts and power constructs end up coming down to Adjustment Powers. Even in this case, it doesn't make a lot of sense that a well- (or luckily-) placed bulled wound should have some of its impact negated by a person who has powers that happen to stop someone from leeching off his powers... but at least this way there *is* a defense. If I was building a different sort of character/power construct, I might instead build the concept with a different defense, or make it NND, with a chosen defense appropriate to a different special effect.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Negative CSLs (or other NegSLs, I guess) as Adjustment Power

 

Instead of Continuing Charges, you could buy them with Uncontrolled (must Heal Back Damage) or (Must take a minute to massage numb limb). Or some such.

 

(I hope this made sense.)

 

Generally, Uncontrolled only works well for effects which keep inflicting additional damage, vs. things that take awhile to fade away or those which simply remain in effect at the same level. An attack which sets someone on fire, or which induces continued bleeding, would be good for Uncontrolled. That's a bit more powerful (and expensive) than I wanted in the given case, and Uncontrolled for NegCLSs wouldn't make sense in this instance - the wound impairs the person, but they don't rack up more Neg Levels each phase.

[Old Man]

Re: Negative CSLs (or other NegSLs, I guess) as Adjustment Power

 

 

BTW, does anyone other than me have any problem with the basic NegCSL and NegSL Power *not* having any form of standardized defense? That's true of very, very few things in the game. Even in the case of Darkness, having the right senses more or less nullifies the power, and of course things like Power Defense, Lack of Weakness, Flash Defense, Hardened Defenses and Life Support nullify lots of other funky attacks... but as written, there is *nothing* that in and of itself stops NegativeSL/CSLs, other than Desolidification (which can itself be bypassed) or being out of range.

 

You buy CSLs Only vs NegCSLs (-2)

Cheap defense against a pretty rare attack.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Negative CSLs (or other NegSLs, I guess) as Adjustment Power

 

. . .wow, I didn't think I ran across such a problematic issue. . .

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Negative CSLs (or other NegSLs, I guess) as Adjustment Power

 

. . .wow' date=' I didn't think I ran across such a problematic issue. . .[/quote']

 

Heh! For HERO System rules debate, this one is a tiny blip on the screen. Check out the debate on Power Defense or the old ones on Damage Resistance: Advantage or Power? sometime.. or the Damage Shield ones.

[Ghostkat]

Re: Negative CSLs (or other NegSLs, I guess) as Adjustment Power

 

On my "Sharing the Wealth" thread on the Champions Forum, I've been posting some characters. One of the characters is a guy who uses guns, and who has a Multipower that is linked to the guns, reflecting different effects he could inflict on his victims (shot to the leg = Drain vs. Running, shot to the head = Drain vs. INT, etc.) I also decided to do something with Negative Combat Skill Levels, to reflect impairning shots that would make the target less able to fight back, dodge, etc (NCSL to OCV or DCV).

 

(*snip*)

 

Any opinions there?

Well this may be coming out of left field, but I know of one power which specifically grants negative CSLs and other penalties. So reasoning from the effect (give the opponent penalties), I figure the Change Environment power can do what you're after!

 

Don't have my Fred here at work, so I can't do a quick write up. But I believe it can be made to work the way you want it to.

[Zed-F]

Re: Negative CSLs (or other NegSLs, I guess) as Adjustment Power

 

BTW' date=' does anyone other than me have any problem with the basic NegCSL and NegSL Power *not* having any form of standardized defense?[/quote']

IIRC, there was a FAQ entry or an entry in the rules questions board that mentioned power defense as the defense for neg CSLs.

 

Ah, found it:

Q: What defense applies against Negative Combat Skill Levels?

 

A: Power Defense — each point of Power Defense negates one Negative CSL, Negative PSL, or Negative SL.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Re: Negative CSLs (or other NegSLs, I guess) as Adjustment Power

 

IIRC, there was a FAQ entry or an entry in the rules questions board that mentioned power defense as the defense for neg CSLs.

 

Ah, found it:

Ah, thank you! That wasn't in the FAQ the last time I downloaded it... looks like I need to do that again.