6-2 Stun Multiplier Method

[Vondy]

Re: 6-2 Stun Multiplier Method

 

I use a fixed stun multiplier of 3.

[BNakagawa]

Re: 6-2 Stun Multiplier Method

 

I'm not sure why your so hot on a 2.86 average being too much. An equal DC Normal damage attack is going to do more stun on average. Granted, not much more, but more. The only time the Hit location chart gets out of hand is when the KA had extra stun multiple.

 

John

 

Here we go again.

 

The Normal attack will generate more raw stun than the Killing attack of equivalent Active Points.

 

However, once you subtract defenses, for any useful (in this sense, I use CKC as a guideline) amount of defenses, the Killing attack will begin to creep ahead.

 

Also, if you compare the damage generated to the average stun number (def + CON) of a likely target, the Killing Attack is vastly superior to the Normal Attack in generating Stunned results. And this is using a standard 2.67 stun roll modifier.

Using a 2.86 average system is probably not going to lessen this effect.

[John T]

Re: 6-2 Stun Multiplier Method

 

Knockback can be your friend, but it can also be your enemy.

 

For HTH KA's and martial attacks the reduced knockback acts somewhat like an advantage. If a PC HTH fighter runs up to a villain energy blaster and does a lot of knockback, then the PC gets shot while trying to close the distance again.

That's an issue of tactical thinking. Having the Knockback of a Normal attack at my disposal means that A) I probably have more options of what I can punch/blast an opponent INTO, and It'll hurt more when I succeed.

 

One of the reasons BTW that I don't allow Increased Knockback on KAs.

 

John T

[JohnOSpencer]

Re: 6-2 Stun Multiplier Method

 

Here we go again.

 

The Normal attack will generate more raw stun than the Killing attack of equivalent Active Points.

 

However, once you subtract defenses, for any useful (in this sense, I use CKC as a guideline) amount of defenses, the Killing attack will begin to creep ahead.

 

Also, if you compare the damage generated to the average stun number (def + CON) of a likely target, the Killing Attack is vastly superior to the Normal Attack in generating Stunned results. And this is using a standard 2.67 stun roll modifier.

Using a 2.86 average system is probably not going to lessen this effect.

 

I may be dense right now, but I have no idea what you are talking about. The only time a KA will do more stun(on average) than a normal attack is when the target has no resistant defenses. And at that point, he's a little more concearned about the body.

 

John

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: 6-2 Stun Multiplier Method

 

I may be dense right now' date=' but I have no idea what you are talking about. The only time a KA will do more stun(on average) than a normal attack is when the target has no resistant defenses. And at that point, he's a little more concearned about the body[/quote']

 

If you take the probability of each possible STUN result, and subtract (say) 20 from it for average DEF, you get a series of zeroes and positive numbers (the opponent can't take negative STUN when the KA inflicts only, say, 10 STUN). The average of these figures is average STUN inflicted, which will determine whether a STUN result occurs and when the target will be KO'd.

 

Because the KA has a much wider range of likely, and even possible, rolls, it inflicts more STUN after defenses, on average, than an equivalent normal attack. It also inflicts no STUN whatsover more frequently, but this is more than offset by the freqeuncy of inflciting huge amounts of STUN in one shot.

 

I think Gary has the full statistical analysis if he wants to post it. I'm too lazy.

[Gary]

Re: 6-2 Stun Multiplier Method

 

I may be dense right now, but I have no idea what you are talking about. The only time a KA will do more stun(on average) than a normal attack is when the target has no resistant defenses. And at that point, he's a little more concearned about the body.

 

John

 

Here's a nice simple example, with 1d6 RKA vs 3d6 normal. Assume 18 Def.

 

The 3d6 normal will never do any net stun.

 

The RKA will do stun on the following results:

 

6 Body 5 Stun Multiple (12 net stun)

6B 4 SM (6 net stun)

5B 5 SM (7 net stun)

5B 4 SM (2 net stun)

4B 5 SM (2 net stun)

Any other die roll combination (0 net stun)

 

The average net stun through defenses is (12+6+7+2+2)/36 = 29/36 = .81 net stun per attack.

 

See how killing attacks can do more net stun than normal attacks at high defense levels?

 

The analysis is a lot more complicated when you add more dice into the mix. However, you can take my word for it that a 4d6 RKA about the same net stun as a 12d6 normal attack when the defense is 27. Above 27 def, the 4d6 RKA does more net stun. Below 27 Def, the 12d6 EB does more net stun.

 

Similar analysis will show that the RKA has a better chance of Stunning the target when (Def+Con)>43. And the 12d6 normal attack has a better chance of Stunning the target when (Def+Con)<44.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: 6-2 Stun Multiplier Method

 

Similar analysis will show that the RKA has a better chance of Stunning the target when (Def+Con)>43. And the 12d6 normal attack has a better chance of Stunning the target when (Def+Con)<44.

 

hmmm...the typical Super has CON 23, and DEF 20 (if one uses 5e guidelines), so exactly 43. Conincidence...or conspiracy?

 

[Except beating the norms is way more common than falling below them.]