CDad Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 If I HAD a campaign, I would run a "Standard" level one, with God-awful, incomprehensible effectiveness ceilings. Anyone have any suggestions? GIbberish was here... apparently I have TOO much time on my hands... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Re: Point/Effectiveness Ceiling I think that you'd best just design all the characters yourself, as you may not find many players who are going to want to fart around with those formulas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phydaux Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Re: Point/Effectiveness Ceiling I think that you'd best just deign all the characters yourself Yeah. I got to the second line and my brian just melted. Hero is ALREADY considered a pain-in-the-ass game system by the math-anxious. Why make a bad thing worse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Re: Point/Effectiveness Ceiling May I suggest our campaign's guideline: SPD + DC is less than or equal to 20 It's worked very well for us, and helps create a wider variety of SPD and attacks. It's also a heck of a lot simpler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Re: Point/Effectiveness Ceiling Give em each 350 points and let em go crazy. No AP limits, no DEF limits. Let em run wild. You will be much happier for it in the long run. I threw out all the ceilings and limits a while back and we are much, much happier. Most attacks are still running in the 60 - 75 AP range just like they did before. It's almost like just the knowledge that they COULD throw in another 50AP into an attack is enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publius Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Re: Point/Effectiveness Ceiling May I suggest our campaign's guideline: SPD + DC is less than or equal to 20 Now that is a very good way to moderate speed in the game. Do you do anything similar for CVs? I basically made the first draft characters for my players using their descriptions, then allowed them to modify the characters extensively. I ask for simple stuff (no speed past 5, low PD/ED, DC12 maximum on most of their attacks etc.) in order to provide a uniform "feel" for the game. These are given as suggestions, not commands, and the bad guys comply with them as well as the heroes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Re: Point/Effectiveness Ceiling Now that is a very good way to moderate speed in the game. Do you do anything similar for CVs?Nope. That's our only rule. But since it's a point based game, and DEX and SPD are the two most expensive Characteristics, it seems to work out just fine in actual practice. Our SPDs range from 4 to 9; DEX from 20 to 43, DCs from 10 to 15, defenses range from 12 to 33. Average CV seems to be about 9 or 10; but then we're all somewhat experienced characters now. We had much the same results as Rapier's group did. When we tossed out the previous formal Rules of X, it led to more interesting character designs and a wider spread of Characteristics and attack dice. If you can't spend as many points as you want on X, you spend the extra points on Y. This leads to a certain sameness. Thus under the old 12 DC cap everyone on the team did 11 or 12d6. (When we changed the campaign rules during the transition from 4th Edition to 5th Edition, I actually lowered my character's max attack by 1d6 despite having suddenly acquired an additional 100 CP.) We have a better spread now, and characters are now more specialized. And more interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Re: Point/Effectiveness Ceiling The one time I tried a game with no campaign limits it didn't turn out well. Its something I'd be willing to try again with a better player base than I had at the time though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moody Loner Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Re: Point/Effectiveness Ceiling When I first ran Champions, I did a no-limits game. One character did a toddler in a battlesuit. OCV/DCV 4, 66 rPD/rED. 80 STR. Never again. On the other hand, the formulas hurt my head meat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Re: Point/Effectiveness Ceiling When I first ran Champions, I did a no-limits game. One character did a toddler in a battlesuit. OCV/DCV 4, 66 rPD/rED. 80 STR. Never again. "No Limits" does not mean the GM abandons his responsibilities to run the campaign. The problem with your example above was with the character concept, not with the defenses. You don't allow stupid concepts like that in the first place. Oh, and I'd love to be the GM running a player with a toddler PC. "I'm sorry, Timmy-poo, but it's 7:30. Turn off the TV. Time for your bath and bedtime story. Oh, don't worry that that awful Rampage is smashing downtown. I'm sure those nice Sentinels will take care of it. Honestly, I just don't understand why a three-year-old would rather watch CNN than Sesame Street." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moody Loner Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Re: Point/Effectiveness Ceiling "No Limits" does not mean the GM abandons his responsibilities to run the campaign. Calm down. First time, remember? Besides, the player insisted. Even after I told her that she was making a lovely wall for the other PCs to hide behind, which was her role during the campaign. Oh, and I'd love to be the GM running a player with a toddler PC. "I'm sorry, Timmy-poo, but it's 7:30. Turn off the TV. Time for your bath and bedtime story. Oh, don't worry that that awful Rampage is smashing downtown. I'm sure those nice Sentinels will take care of it. Honestly, I just don't understand why a three-year-old would rather watch CNN than Sesame Street." Oh, I did this. Naptime, bedtime, diaper changes, the PCs getting the cops called on them for hanging around in a suburban backyard trying to get their brick, all the obvious ways to screw with the party...not to mention having the villains and media mocking them. "Well, you took "Toddler" as a Disadvantage, of course I'm going to make it a problem." Dude, I didn't say we didn't have fun, I said I wouldn't do it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victim Posted December 11, 2004 Report Share Posted December 11, 2004 Re: Point/Effectiveness Ceiling Besides, you could just as easily have a normal guy in a battlesuit with the same absurb defenses but worthless CV. Having a toddler has nothing to do with problems from no cap or guidelines on powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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