Area of Effect Stretching?

[Constantine]

I have a couple of questions I'd like the board to ponder. 1) If you buy area of effect stretching, does this allow you to use your full strength area of effect? 2) If you buy stretching with the advantage that makes it so your limb doesn't actually go through the intervening space, can your "limb" still be attacked at the other end, during your attack? How would blocking work?

[MikeyMitchell]

Re: Area of Effect Stretching?

I have a couple of questions I'd like the board to ponder. 1) If you buy area of effect stretching' date=' does this allow you to use your full strength area of effect?[/quote']I'd say no. If you want to buy AE on your STR, then buy AE on your STR as a naked Advantage. You can link it to your Stretching if you like, to simulate that the character is "stretching" his hand to cover a broader area. There was a character in the Mutant File, an old 4E supplement, who could do this.

2) If you buy stretching with the advantage that makes it so your limb doesn't actually go through the intervening space' date=' can your "limb" still be attacked at the other end, during your attack? How would blocking work?[/quote']I'd tend to say that yes, whatever portion of your limb was sticking out could be targeted. Hit location could be used to simulate this.As far as Blocking is concerned, I don't see why it would be any different. The target could use an OCV vs. OCV roll as normal. Since Stretching already provides some Indirect features, you could easily justify an OCV bonus for the Stretching character as a surprise move, but that wouldn't be specifically for the Block case.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Area of Effect Stretching?

I'd say no. If you want to buy AE on your STR' date=' then buy AE on your STR as a naked Advantage. You can link it to your Stretching if you like, to simulate that the character is "stretching" his hand to cover a broader area. There was a character in the Mutant File, an old 4E supplement, who could do this.

I'd tend to say that yes, whatever portion of your limb was sticking out could be targeted. Hit location could be used to simulate this.As far as Blocking is concerned, I don't see why it would be any different. The target could use an OCV vs. OCV roll as normal. Since Stretching already provides some Indirect features, you could easily justify an OCV bonus for the Stretching character as a surprise move, but that wouldn't be specifically for the Block case.

[/quote']I'd quite agree with Mikey, although I would need to look at the description of the advantage, as I thought this was covered in there. The OCV surprise modifier would make it more difficult to block anyway. As the attack would be in the target's hex though, I would be inclined to only allow the target to attack the limb.Couple of interesting (I think) points. 1. If you can target the attacking limb, what happens if you grab it?2. The fact that the limb doesn't cross the intervening space does not mean that it becomes any more indirect than it is at present: it couldn't penetrate an enclosing force bubble, for instance, but could go round a force wall just like normal stretching would. If it did it couldn't get increased velocity damage as it isn't a 'direct' attack (but see bleow on that anyway).3. If the limb doesn't cross intervening space does that mean it can not gain the increased stretching damage as the limb is not necessarily any longer than usual in fact?

[Constantine]

Re: Area of Effect Stretching?

 

 

1. If you can target the attacking limb, what happens if you grab it?

 

2. The fact that the limb doesn't cross the intervening space does not mean that it becomes any more indirect than it is at present: it couldn't penetrate an enclosing force bubble, for instance, but could go round a force wall just like normal stretching would. If it did it couldn't get increased velocity damage as it isn't a 'direct' attack (but see bleow on that anyway).

 

3. If the limb doesn't cross intervening space does that mean it can not gain the increased stretching damage as the limb is not necessarily any longer than usual in fact?

 

1. Very interesting point! I guess the limb would be stuck there..., and he'd be unable to use it for anything else, but you wouldn't really be able to pull him to you, unless the special effect supported it.

 

2. Well, I believe the advantage does state that streching is inherently indirect, so, it would go through a force wall, etc.

 

3. Yes, I think I would have to work that way, but it is an advantage, and I hate to limit a power because of an advantage...

 

One of the examples they give for this power is a martial arts strike, where the martial artist punches the air, and the effect travels to his victim. For my money, this should be hand attack, bought ranged and indirect. The does not cross intervening space really opens up a can of worms...

[Sean Waters]

Re: Area of Effect Stretching?

 

2. Well' date=' I believe the advantage does state that streching is inherently indirect, so, it would go through a force wall, etc.[/quote']

 

Stretching is partially indirect: it doesn't have to get to the target by crossing the intervening space in a straight line, but it would still have to be able to get there: I would have left this advantage out and relied on buying more indirect effect, if I was doing it, but my understanding is that the advantage doesn't make the power any more indirect than it was already, it just means that the arm attacking someone on the far side of the battlefield is not exposed to being attacked by all and sundry between them.

 

Mind you i don't have the book in front of me....

[MikeyMitchell]

Re: Area of Effect Stretching?

I'd quite agree with Mikey' date=' although I would need to look at the description of the advantage, as I thought this was covered in there. The OCV surprise modifier would make it more difficult to block anyway. As the attack would be in the target's hex though, I would be inclined to only allow the target to attack the limb.Couple of interesting (I think) points. 1. If you can target the attacking limb, what happens if you grab it?2. The fact that the limb doesn't cross the intervening space does not mean that it becomes any more indirect than it is at present: it couldn't penetrate an enclosing force bubble, for instance, but could go round a force wall just like normal stretching would. If it did it couldn't get increased velocity damage as it isn't a 'direct' attack (but see bleow on that anyway).3. If the limb doesn't cross intervening space does that mean it can not gain the increased stretching damage as the limb is not necessarily any longer than usual in fact?[/quote']Grabbing the limb would, I think, prevent the Stretching character from withdrawing it, and would prevent you from pulling him to you, based on the rules definitions. He'd have to find some way to pull his limb free of your grasp. See 5ER p. 221.Total agreement on point 2. You'd have to break through an enclosing Force Wall before you could get to whatever's inside.I would tend to say that you don't lose the "velocity" bonus to stretching just because it doesn't cross the intervening space. First, the rules don't say you do. But, you could easily say that the limb 'jumping' from the entry portal to the exit portal represents a "velocity" of sorts. For instance, say you have 6" of Stretching. If I open a portal and stick my hand in, it will come out 6" away almost instantly. You could therefore say my fist "moved" 6" (relative to the real world). Wouldn't be too hard to justify saying you still get your damage bonus. It's not the length of the limb that causes the damage; it's the relative velocity.If you don't like such hand-waving, just let the player take the "no damage" limitation on the Stretching.

[Constantine]

Re: Area of Effect Stretching?

 

What about the area of effect aspect of things??

[MikeyMitchell]

Re: Area of Effect Stretching?From my previous post:

I'd say no. If you want to buy AE on your STR' date=' then buy AE on your STR as a naked Advantage. You can link it to your Stretching if you like, to simulate that the character is "stretching" his hand to cover a broader area. There was a character in the Mutant File, an old 4E supplement, who could do this.

[/quote']

[Constantine]

Re: Area of Effect Stretching?

 

Thanks, Mikey, I just didn't want that aspect of things forgotten for other, new posters...

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Area of Effect Stretching?

I'd say no. If you want to buy AE on your STR' date=' then buy AE on your STR as a naked Advantage. You can link it to your Stretching if you like, to simulate that the character is "stretching" his hand to cover a broader area. There was a character in the Mutant File, an old 4E supplement, who could do this.

[/quote']In the game I play, where I play Meeb, and alien Amoeba, that is how we handle it, stretching and area affect on STR - and as a SFX he drops to DVC 3 when he area affects, he is as big as a hex, so he is as easy to hit as one.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: Area of Effect Stretching?

 

What about the area of effect aspect of things??

 

I don't think it's off-balancing to say that if you have area effect Stretching that you can use your strength across an area, but that your strength is halved (or 2/3rds if it One Hex AE), because you are spreading your Strength across an area. This is only for the purposes of damage (you are spread too thin to do as much damage), and not for the lifting purposes (you can still lift the same amount, even if you are spread out like a blanket, in fact it might even be slightly easier by distributing the weight).

 

Unless, you buy AE for your Strength.

 

Blue "Splitting the baby in half" Jogger

[Silbeg]

Re: Area of Effect Stretching?

 

2. The fact that the limb doesn't cross the intervening space does not mean that it becomes any more indirect than it is at present: it couldn't penetrate an enclosing force bubble, for instance, but could go round a force wall just like normal stretching would. If it did it couldn't get increased velocity damage as it isn't a 'direct' attack (but see bleow on that anyway).

Actually, I recall posting a question similar to this to SL. This advantage does allow the stretching to circumvent the FW, as it does not have to cross the space that the FW is it. This does enable stretching to avoid barriers (much like Telekinesis can).

 

In fact, this post suggests this explicitly. (can't find a better one... maybe in the FAQ?)

 

3. If the limb doesn't cross intervening space does that mean it can not gain the increased stretching damage as the limb is not necessarily any longer than usual in fact?

Unless the limitation "Does no velocity damage" has been bought for the power (I would usually require this, BTW), the advantage should probably not remove that portion of the power's abilities. The most common example of the use of this power would be a teleportation "portal", which would probably mean that the velocity damage wouldn't make sense.

[Constantine]

Re: Area of Effect Stretching?

 

I asked steve a question on the answers board, and he said that with doesn't pass through intervening space advantage that the "limb" is at no point subject to attack. Is this power really stretching at this point?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Area of Effect Stretching?

 

I've posted some follow up questions to Mr Long, so we can see what the official answers are, assuming that I have phrased them sufficiently clearly.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Area of Effect Stretching?

 

Mr Long has responded:

 

The Does Not Pass Through Intervening Space Advantage does not impart any Indirect properties to Stretching that Stretching does not already possess. If a character wants that type of Stretching to be Indirect, he has to pay for that Advantage.

 

...so you would need to buy indirect for a stretching attack that did not cross intervening space to get through an englobing force wall, but not for it to get around a 'three hex sides' force wall: just like for stretching without the advantage.