Martial Balance

[simplygnome]

I've got two martial artists appearing in my campaign and Im having trouble balancing the two out.

 

The game is set on 200 + 100, with an APPROX. AP cap on powers of 60...ish.

 

Now, one characters is more of a shadow-magician character, with martial artist abilities....And she took a +12d6 HA (a shadow punch, if you will) that will add with her MA and her STR.... (so 12d6 + 2 to 4d6 + 3d6 str = 17d6 to 19d6)

 

The other MA doesnt look like he's going to take an additional HA, but rely on some chi based abilities...he does, however, have his stats a bit higher overall.

 

I dont see him doing nearly as much damage as the others....

 

The blaster in the group relys on 14d6 normal attacks (70AP) while a punisher/Capt A like character is bouncing around 6-8d6 double knockback powers (energy bullets from his Tech)

 

I know Im missing some basic balance issues here, but how do the rest of you deal with MA, HTHA, and such when looking at campagin power continuity..?

 

We're still in character creation process and I know the player wont mind at all when I tone down the HA, but Im just looking for a better way to judge balance and such....

[MikeyMitchell]

Re: Martial Balance

I've got two martial artists appearing in my campaign and Im having trouble balancing the two out.The game is set on 200 + 100' date=' with an APPROX. AP cap on powers of 60...ish.Now, one characters is more of a shadow-magician character, with martial artist abilities....And she took a +12d6 HA (a shadow punch, if you will) that will add with her MA and her STR.... (so 12d6 + 2 to 4d6 + 3d6 str = 17d6 to 19d6)The other MA doesnt look like he's going to take an additional HA, but rely on some chi based abilities...he does, however, have his stats a bit higher overall.I dont see him doing nearly as much damage as the others....The blaster in the group relys on 14d6 normal attacks (70AP) while a punisher/Capt A like character is bouncing around 6-8d6 double knockback powers (energy bullets from his Tech)I know Im missing some basic balance issues here, but how do the rest of you deal with MA, HTHA, and such when looking at campagin power continuity..?We're still in character creation process and I know the player wont mind at all when I tone down the HA, but Im just looking for a better way to judge balance and such....[/quote']Enforce a Damage Class cap. With a 60ish point cap, that'd be 12DC - or 12D6 normal. Mr. 19D6 Martial Maniac needs to tone things down.Part of the fun of being a GM - you have to tell the players "no" sometimes.

[MitchellS]

Re: Martial Balance

 

I agree. A damage cap is the way to go, and is suggested in the book as well. Just tell your players that 14 DC is the most they will be allowed, not including haymakers.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Martial Balance

 

In general our group tries to avoid stepping on each other's schticks rather than setting fixed limits. The martial artist should move and hit more often than the brick, but not hit nearly as hard and her defenses should be a mere fraction of the brick's. The energy projectors split the difference; being slower than the MAs' but faster than the bricks and hitting not quite as hard, but with defenses nearly as good as the bricks' (but not CON). We do this amongst ourselves as players rather than with a GM dictate. YMMV.

 

So in your particular case, I'd ask the player with the MA having a 19d6 attack why he feels a need to hit harder than a high damage brick? It's certainly not typical of the source material. And it prevents a player running a brick from enjoying his unique abilities as the team's heavy hitter.

[The Hyborian]

Re: Martial Balance

 

I've got two martial artists appearing in my campaign and Im having trouble balancing the two out.

 

The game is set on 200 + 100, with an APPROX. AP cap on powers of 60...ish.

 

Now, one characters is more of a shadow-magician character, with martial artist abilities....And she took a +12d6 HA (a shadow punch, if you will) that will add with her MA and her STR.... (so 12d6 + 2 to 4d6 + 3d6 str = 17d6 to 19d6)

 

The other MA doesnt look like he's going to take an additional HA, but rely on some chi based abilities...he does, however, have his stats a bit higher overall.

 

I dont see him doing nearly as much damage as the others....

 

The blaster in the group relys on 14d6 normal attacks (70AP) while a punisher/Capt A like character is bouncing around 6-8d6 double knockback powers (energy bullets from his Tech)

 

I know Im missing some basic balance issues here, but how do the rest of you deal with MA, HTHA, and such when looking at campagin power continuity..?

 

We're still in character creation process and I know the player wont mind at all when I tone down the HA, but Im just looking for a better way to judge balance and such....

 

 

I agree with the others that sometimes you have to put a hard cap on damage. Otherwise some is going to create a silly min/max build that is out of balance. While a 12d6 HA may be 60 active points, its unbalanced once you add strength and marital arts maneuvers. I would tell your shadow magician to cut back on the Hand Attack so his total attack in in the 12-14d6 Range, which seems to be the upper end for the campaign.

 

I will also say that there is a downside to damage caps. If the hard cap is 12d6 normal damage or 60 Active points in powers, then everyone toes the line with a 12d6 attack. Its not that hard to come up with 60 points of offence in a 300 point character. It cuts down on variability. A possible solution is to try to enforce a bit a of good character design. You could set some minimums like at least 40 points in non combat skills. Also set defense and CV limits, and be sure to make them all high enough that characters cant afford to max them all out. If you hit the max in offense, you wont have the points to max out CV or defenses, etc. IN fact, 60 is a fairly low Active point cap. You might pull back to 275 or 250 point characters if you want that to be the maximum attack level. That way the characters who go the the red line in on offence will have to make a genuine sacrifice somewere else.

 

I would also suggest that your gun character find a way to up his offense a little bit. The extra knockback does not compensate for being 6-8d6 behind the blaster in dammage output. Unless he has some other attacks or utility powers he is going to feel cheated when you get into play.

[Hawksmoor]

Re: Martial Balance

 

Agreed, placing Damage Caps is the way to go. Look under the Rules Disussion forum under Rule of X or the like and you'll find lots of ideas. Liaidon -The Lord of the Links- should be around shortly to provide them. The man is uncanny!!!

 

I on the other hand see no problem with every PC loading the same dice for an attack action. As long as every one is enjoying the game it is all cool.

 

Hawksmoor

[simplygnome]

Re: Martial Balance

 

Thanks for the info all.

 

I sat down and looked at balance and decided a 14DC damage cap would be enforced, with 12DC being the norm...

 

I found a great way to balance out he Shadow Martial Artist too...I didnt want to just cut her attack down, since I didnt want her "wasting" the 60 AP limit of her MP, so I just tacked on RANGED to her HtH attack. Now shes sitting at 14d6 exactly with 12" of range....Shes even more deadly than before, yet in complete balance with the other characters! Me and her are still talking it over, but she might take another advantage (dropping her to 12DCs) of either indirect or possibly Affects Desolidified, as they both fit her character concept....

 

Also, for clarification, the originaly unbalancing was not the players fault. This is her first Hero character, and it just ended up unbalanced because of rules confusion....Everythings straightened out now, and its balancing well....