Descant Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Got a character concept I wanted to drop on you guys... I welcome power ideas, writeups of frameworks, powers, advantages, and even disadvantages... I've seen some very keen minds here, and I'd like to see various people play with this. Dust Raven and I were talking tonight about the sense discussion elsewhere on the boards, senses as opposed to other bodily processes, etc., and I brought up Sapphire. He's not a rock-star turned superheroine working with the Champions... he's a red-headed British sci-fi author who bonded unexpectedly with the Sapphire Auden Stone and acquired bio-manipulation powers. He is able to control the neural and endocrine impulses of the body. He can cause physical pain, paralysis, migraines, tinnitis, nerve-blindness and disorientation. He can affect emotions by altering body chemicals, especially adrenaline, which also theoretically could aid strength and dexterity/speed as well... he is capable of a lot of different effects, seemingly limitless... and I originally wrote him up with a VPP to that end. (He can also aid and affect his own bio-processes, and could defend himself by raising his adrenaline levels (STR, DEX and CON boost) and causing any number of other effects.) The catch is, I want his powers to work like mental powers, to some extent (bypassing armor, not easily dodgable, etc.), but I don't want them based on EGO. The effects cannot be fought off by willpower alone... it's more CON-based, wearing off as the body tries to reset the imbalance. No amount of chitchat or mental conditioning can correct some forms of depression or bipolar disorder... the person literally cannot control how they feel. Prescription drugs alleviate the symptoms by correcting the imbalance... that's kind of how his powers work. He can aid and hinder others on the biological level, and that's not EGO. So... how do you think I should go about this, guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Re: The UnMentalist... Well there is a limit "mental powers based on CON". From what you're describing, you could use that to simulate many of the effects you were talking about. Build say, a single effect Mind Control Power and then apply the "based on CON" limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Re: The UnMentalist... Agreed. It's a suite of mental powers based on Con, with Drain and Supress used for those abilities that don't fit as mental powers. You may be able to save a few points with Does Not Provide Mental Awareness as well, though I'd have to look that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawksmoor Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Re: The UnMentalist... A Mental Power based on CON does not provide mental awareness 5ER pg 120 Based on CON is a -1 Limitation Hawksmoor Descant cool PC idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dust Raven Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Re: The UnMentalist... I'm a bit familiar with the concept (I've been trying to help Descant write this character up for, literally, years). I don't think the Based on CON Limitation applies in this situation. For one, it shouldn't be based on PD or ED. I'm not sure about the method of targeting (ECV or DCV) but I don't think it really matters (couldn't affect anything without an EGO anyway, but dodging might help, dunno). Right now I'm thinking of a Based on CON Advantage that would work like a normal Mental Power, but be based on Power Defense instead of Mental, and have affects based on rolling above the target's CON instead of the EGO. It would still be targeted using ECV (or DCV is Descant prefers, which might be better since the Adjustment Powers will already be based on DCV and need an Advantage to be based on EGO). I'm just not sure how to manage it, if it really is an Advantage or a Limitation (CON does seem to be higher than EGO for most characters) or if it's just a +0 Modifier. Hell, I'm not even exactly sure this is what Descant wants! But it's what it sounds like from what she's described. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Re: The UnMentalist... Okay, how about Transform? If you can use Transform to give people disads why not use it to change physical states/emotions through the manipulation of body chemistry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Re: The UnMentalist... I'm a bit familiar with the concept (I've been trying to help Descant write this character up for, literally, years). I don't think the Based on CON Limitation applies in this situation. For one, it shouldn't be based on PD or ED. I'm not sure about the method of targeting (ECV or DCV) but I don't think it really matters (couldn't affect anything without an EGO anyway, but dodging might help, dunno). Right now I'm thinking of a Based on CON Advantage that would work like a normal Mental Power, but be based on Power Defense instead of Mental, and have affects based on rolling above the target's CON instead of the EGO. It would still be targeted using ECV (or DCV is Descant prefers, which might be better since the Adjustment Powers will already be based on DCV and need an Advantage to be based on EGO). I'm just not sure how to manage it, if it really is an Advantage or a Limitation (CON does seem to be higher than EGO for most characters) or if it's just a +0 Modifier. Hell, I'm not even exactly sure this is what Descant wants! But it's what it sounds like from what she's described. Would this work for the Emotions part of the effect? Emotion Control: Mind Control 12d6, Telepathic (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Attack Versus Limited Defense (Power Def; +1 1/2) (180 Active Points); Based on CON (Defense: PD; -1), Set Effect (Emotion Control Only; -1/4) Real Cost: 80 points The AVLD would normally only be +3/4, but the Based on Con doubles the cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike W Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Re: The UnMentalist... Oddhat...that's brilliant. Rep for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Re: The UnMentalist... To do this with Mental Powers in a strictly rules-legal fashion - and if you don't worry much about Active Point caps on the Powers in your game - my suggestion would be to use the "Based On CON" Limitation for Mental Powers, but to buy them with NND or AVLD to bypass Defenses that you don't think would apply to these SFX. Another way to deal with this would be to decide how much changing the way the Mental Power works would Limit it component by component. For example, changing from Mental Defense to Power Defense is probably a -0 Limitation, or at most -1/4 because you lose the figured Defense from the character's EGO. Changing to working against CON rather than EGO may be -0 or perhaps -1/4 (the point cost is the same, but as you say in your particular campaign a high CON may be more common than a high EGO). Same thing with changing to ECV from normal CV. OTOH if the power loses Line of Sight by this change, it should be at least -1/4 (still less than No Range). However, I would like to note that many of the effects that Descant is decribing can just be the Special Effect of normal Energy Blast (possibly with NND or AVLD), Drain, Flash etc. The influence of an individual's Constitution can be reflected in being able to withstand being Stunned by an attack, by how quickly they recover STUN, and so on. I'd also recommend looking up the "Body Control Powers" category in the UNTIL Superpowers Database and/or the Online USPD. There are many power builds that suit a character of this type. EDIT: partially scooped by Oddhat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Blue Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Re: The UnMentalist... Descant: "He is able to control the neural and endocrine impulses of the body." If Sapphire tags Crusher Creel with the power, he hits Creel's constitution (which is probably substantial) and disregards his EGO (which is a pity for Sapphire), because the power is hitting the actual neural and endocrine impulses of Creel's meat and bone body. So far, so good. Crusher reels and falls, but he's not out. His next action is to absorb the concrete of the street he fell on. Now his wrecking ball, shoes, socks and entire body are concrete, including his nervous system, which continues to work just fine. (Don't blame me, this is comics.) What happens to the effects that have been imposed on him so far, and will a new dose of the attack affect him as it did last time? If Creel just negated Sapphire's whole attack, there is a fairly common defence to it. Lots of people have bodies of rock, steel and so on. The only problem is, you're already taking such big limitations that another one barely benefits you. Still, this seems worth defining on general principles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Blue Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Re: The UnMentalist... Descant: "The catch is, I want his powers to work like mental powers, to some extent (bypassing armor, not easily dodgable, etc.), but I don't want them based on EGO." Something that can't be readily dodged and isn't EGO based either - that sounds like in might be an area effect of some kind. What else will bypass both DCV and ECV? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doppler Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Re: The UnMentalist... You really ought to add a couple other powers: Entangle (paralyzing the nervous system), possibly with Continuous, and heart attack (RKA IPE NND Does Body Continuous). Again, not worrying about point caps, you can build these effectively and not overpowering. And don't forget EB ALVD (mental defense) for a splitting headache effect... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Descant Posted February 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Re: The UnMentalist... Hmmm... All good ideas so far. I liked the writeup Oddhat had for the empathic manipulation... I also appreciate all the input from everybody else... esp. Lord Liaden! You always put a lot of thought into your posts... thanks for that. I've been trying to think of what to write in response, to let everybody know I've been reading and thinking... but I haven't really decided what angles i like best. There's just so much suddenly in front of me for options and ideas. I suppose after a bit more time, Dust raven and I will try to formulate a writeup, probably using several of the ideas here. By the way... kudos also to David Blue... I hadn't thought a lot about heroes who weren't traditional in the biological sense... mutants and aliens, yeah, but stone and iron men had not crossed my mind... I just knew he would not be able to do much with robotic assailants. You're right... the character would most likely recover more or less instantaneously after the change, his shift having reset his body to functional norms, and after which Sapphire could do little else against him. (Might even think of a few ways to get around that for the concept, in case he's not with a team all the time! Makes me think... good going!) As for the rest of the wonderful suggestions, until my mind clears more and I can thank you all properly, I appreciate all the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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