Armor Skill

[Old Man]

Just started playing Shadowbane a few days ago. I'm quite happy with it.

 

Anyway, the game has Use Light Armor, Use Medium Armor and Use Heavy Armor as skills. Better types of armor require more skill points and the level of protection you get from a particular type of armor increases with skill.

 

I thought this was interesting and that it could be translated into Hero. Spend a point or two to get the Armor X Skill, then spend more points to get increases in DEF/rDEF Only In X Armor. Maybe limit it to PD and Damage Resistance.

 

Of course this does increase the tank problem. I just found it kinda neat.

[Old Man]

I was thinking the other day that what would be really funny is if you let players buy penalty skill levels to get rid of the encumbrance penalty for armor. Ha ha ha! Of course I'd never allow that in my games.

 

I got the short version of Excalibur on DVD out of the bargain bin at Towers, and I've been watching it in fits and starts. There's dozens of guys in plate in that movie, and hardly anyone dodges or even runs. Of course, it's a really cheesy movie, so I hate to use it as an example of realistic knight combat, but flavorwise it matches FH just fine. 4th ed., anyway.

[AnotherSkip]

Say Have you seen Conquest on the history Channel?

 

Couple of halfway decent notes there (like obstacle course training) that really put me completely opposite your opinion there Old Man.

 

Frankly though I would make it _very_ difficult but not impossible to buy those. The more time you spent running around in the armor the more possible it would become. Still, part of this resistance would be game balance not necessarily realism.

 

Sides what the heck is the difference between DCV PSL's vs. Enc and DCV Skill levels. yeah, price, but still it just gets to be a loser proposition, might as well have them.

[Markdoc]

For years, I have been letting players buy 5 point levels in DCV (only to offset armour penalties, -1)

 

It doesn't seem unbalancing - the 8 points spent on offsetting the effect of heavy armour could easily be spent on a nastier combination of level, or just more DEX!

 

I would allow PSL to be bought to offset some of the other limitations of armour, but would require those be bought seperately (so PSL vs minus on stealth roll, PSL vs minus on PER roll, etc) since learning to fight and move effectively in armour does not make you quieter or vice versa. No player has ever asked about this though :-)

[Alibear]

This all really moot unless we can tell exactly what armour actually weighs. Until we know what a chain-mail shirt weighs then we can never really know how limiting armour really is.

 

I wonder if Steve and Co. will give actual weights of things.

 

Anyone know realistic weights for 14th century style armour?

[sbarron]

Re: Armor Skill

 

Originally posted by Shadowpup

Of course this does increase the tank problem. I just found it kinda neat.

 

Do to a lack of Hero gamers in my area, I've been forced to play some D&D3 lately. And for all the things about it I don't like, I have to admit their system for balancing heavy armor vs. light or no armor is almost perfect.

 

In case someone doesn't know how D&D armor works...basically, the heavier the armor a charcter has, the less Dex bonus he can use toward his Armor Class. You find a similar mechanic in the encumberance rules, but there is an additional level of defense in Hero games, DEF, which doesn't exist in D&D. DEF is what makes things difficult for balance between light and heavy armor, because there is an additional benefit to wearing heavy armor. So you can afford to get hit more.

 

I had hoped that Combat Luck would work to shift the balance back toward lighter armored characters, but the fact that 1) they have to pay points to get it, 2) nothing is stopping the heavy armored chacter from taking it also, 3) lighter armored characters rely more on high DEX, which has a whole slew of other advantages in Hero.

 

Maybe I just think about all this stuff too much and should just shut up and play?

[Legendsmiths]

For realistic armor weights look no further than GURPS Low-Tech. GURPS fan or not, it is a great resource.

 

With Hero STR the way it is, armor weight is almost negligable. Even with a modified ENC system (based on casual STR), it still doesn't work out to that much of a big deal.

 

A full suit of plate armor weighs 60-70lbs (27-32 kg). Even a 15 STR guy (lift 200kg) will not be all that affected by it since his 10-25% range is 20-50kg.

 

Using my casual STR system such armor would be worth -2 or -3 DEX/DCV. I then allow characters to buy Armor Expert (3 pts) which reduces the ENC Penalties by 1 level, including movement and END.

 

Another alternative would be to have a "Maneuver Penalty" ala D&D based on DEF/2 (round down). Then allow players to buy penalty skill levels to offset the Maneuver Penalty. Movement could be penalized as DEF/3 in inches. The only problem with this is STR doesn't enter into the picture.

 

Armor could be defined to have Min STR (DEF*4). If you can't meet the Min STR, you are at -1 DEX/DCV for every 5 pts of STR. This is very similar to using a weapon that is too heavy. Movement is -1" per -2 penalty. That way, full plate has a STR of 32. at 12 STR the character would be -4 DEX/DCV. They could then buy Armor Expert to reduce this to a -3.

 

I also feel that shields should have a Min STR, especially if they are going to be used as weapons (i.e. Shield Bash).