The Stormtrooper Effect

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: The Stormtrooper Effect

 

I've thought about this before as well... I remember reading a GURPS optional rule called "The Imperial School of Marksmanship" or somesuch that stated to simulate this effect the "mooks" always miss their first shot. A HERO and movie friendly way to do the same effect is really quite easy. Have your stormtroopers (or similar agent types) always launch their starting volley as "Blazing away" for a presence attack. It even makes a certain tactical sence to try and break their opponents morale, especially when you add in their rep. Its always easier to shoot insurgents in the back while they're running from you than to take them in a stand up fight. Another good rule for this kind of effect is Suppression Fire. After fairly serious pondering of the rules, suppression fire became almost the default attack mode used by my Confederation troopers in my old Star Hero campaign. Unless a PC was dumb enough to be standing out in the open in plain view shooting at them...in which case a trooper or two would focus on the PC in question and usually render them into a puddle of protoplasm.

[Nevenall]

Re: The Stormtrooper Effect

 

Well' date=' some of those hits could possibly be stuns or KOs, rather than lethal hits. We don't always see long enough to know the stormtroopers don't get up again (or they fall down exhaust tubes or whatever, which could happen with a KO or Knockdown).[/quote']

Very good point. The only time I can think of seeing dead stormtroopers would be when they are storming P. Leia's ship.

[prestidigitator]

Re: The Stormtrooper Effect

 

I've thought about this before as well... I remember reading a GURPS optional rule called "The Imperial School of Marksmanship" or somesuch that stated to simulate this effect the "mooks" always miss their first shot. A HERO and movie friendly way to do the same effect is really quite easy. Have your stormtroopers (or similar agent types) always launch their starting volley as "Blazing away" for a presence attack. It even makes a certain tactical sence to try and break their opponents morale' date=' especially when you add in their rep. Its always easier to shoot insurgents in the back while they're running from you than to take them in a stand up fight. Another good rule for this kind of effect is Suppression Fire. After fairly serious pondering of the rules, suppression fire became almost the default attack mode used by my Confederation troopers in my old Star Hero campaign. Unless a PC was dumb enough to be standing out in the open in plain view shooting at them...in which case a trooper or two would focus on the PC in question and usually render them into a puddle of protoplasm.[/quote']

Awesome!

 

EDIT: Wait. Double thumbs up (and rep). :thumbup:

[Nevenall]

Re: The Stormtrooper Effect

 

I've thought about this before as well... I remember reading a GURPS optional rule called "The Imperial School of Marksmanship" or somesuch that stated to simulate this effect the "mooks" always miss their first shot. A HERO and movie friendly way to do the same effect is really quite easy. Have your stormtroopers (or similar agent types) always launch their starting volley as "Blazing away" for a presence attack. It even makes a certain tactical sence to try and break their opponents morale' date=' especially when you add in their rep. Its always easier to shoot insurgents in the back while they're running from you than to take them in a stand up fight. Another good rule for this kind of effect is Suppression Fire. After fairly serious pondering of the rules, suppression fire became almost the default attack mode used by my Confederation troopers in my old Star Hero campaign. Unless a PC was dumb enough to be standing out in the open in plain view shooting at them...in which case a trooper or two would focus on the PC in question and usually render them into a puddle of protoplasm.[/quote']

 

That is a really great idea which is going strait into my campaign. I don't usually do presense attacks directly against players, but supression fire is just the thing.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: The Stormtrooper Effect

 

Thanks for the enthusiactic support. It came to me in the shower one night after perusing the boards... thinking about it, I realized that the first thing anyone usually does when the stormtroopers show up with blasters blazing is either cut and run or immediately head for cover. Sounds like a logical resopnce to a PRE attack to me. From there it was easy.

[austenandrews]

Re: The Stormtrooper Effect

 

Another good rule for this kind of effect is Suppression Fire.

Right, that's an excellent one. I intended to mention SF in my earlier post.

 

Something else I forgot to mention is that people attacking in large groups take much fewer chances. When twenty cops surround one gunman, if the gunman can shoot in one direction and half the cops will duck. No need to take extra risks when numbers guarantee success. The fewer the cops, the greater risks they'll take to end the conflict.

[Mantis]

Re: The Stormtrooper Effect

 

Personally, I wouldn't assume that every Stormtrooper (or any member of an armed mob opposed to the main characters) is an on-the-ball, well-trained, highly-motivated and experienced operative. They could just as likely be conscripted, poorly-trained, unenthusiastic and may never have fired their weapon in anger before. Less likely the closer they are to Darth Vader, of course, but even so they still can't all be hardened veterans.

 

As a GM, if using small groups of Agents as opponents, I would develop appropriate small-unit tactics for them as well. This makes them more of a challenge by making them more effective as a whole, even if they are not a threat individually, and would keep me honest if the players come up with a countering tactic during a session - the Agents respond per their 'training' rather than accroding to my in-game knowledge. Of course, the Agency can then develop counter-tactics between encounters, or develop new weapons/tricks if any weaknesses are exposed... .

[KA.]

Re: The Stormtrooper Effect

 

Well, in fairness, I don't remember any of the Rebels' "ace pilots" being able to even touch Vader in a dogfight either.

It took Han Solo (another main character) firing from behind, by surprise, to land a damaging shot on him during the assault on the Deathstar.

So it appears that all the 'major players' are pretty much immune to the other side's mooks.

 

KA.

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: The Stormtrooper Effect

 

Well, in fairness, I don't remember any of the Rebels' "ace pilots" being able to even touch Vader in a dogfight either.

It took Han Solo (another main character) firing from behind, by surprise, to land a damaging shot on him during the assault on the Deathstar.

So it appears that all the 'major players' are pretty much immune to the other side's mooks.

 

KA.

Actually, it's been a while since I've seen Star Wars, but I don't think Han did shoot Vader. I believe he blew up one of Vader's wingmen, the other wingman's fighter had a glancing collision with Vader's ship, and Vader was sent spinning out of control out into space.

 

I could be mis-remembering though; as I said, it's been a while.

[austenandrews]

Re: The Stormtrooper Effect

 

Actually' date=' it's been a while since I've seen [i']Star Wars[/i], but I don't think Han did shoot Vader. I believe he blew up one of Vader's wingmen, the other wingman's fighter had a glancing collision with Vader's ship, and Vader was sent spinning out of control out into space.

 

I could be mis-remembering though; as I said, it's been a while.

You're correct. Vader blew his Piloting roll at a critical moment.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: The Stormtrooper Effect

 

You're correct. Vader blew his Piloting roll at a critical moment.

 

A fortunate "error" on his part, if one reads the novelization. It holds that the brush against the wall knocked out some systems so he couldn't control flight direction and headed off into space. As a result, he wasn't on the DS when it blew.

[Brother Jim]

Re: The Stormtrooper Effect

 

stormtroopers are lousy shots, but everyone is terrified of their shooting abilities because lucas wrote it that way.

 

just like annakin was a divine (mis-)conception.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: The Stormtrooper Effect

 

stormtroopers are lousy shots' date=' but [b']everyone[/b] is terrified of their shooting abilities because lucas wrote it that way.

 

just like annakin was a divine (mis-)conception.

 

Did any one SS trooper have to be a crack shot for people to be afraid of the SS?

 

I think the comments made are pretty accurate - when fired on, the characters who didn't get hit put considerable effort into getting out of the way. I'd suggest they're passable shots, but not sharpshooters by any stretch.

 

This is another "RPG breaks down from source material" issue. In the movies, huge numbers of opponents (stormtroopers, Indians, Nazis, whatever) chase the Hero and never hit. Yet the characters are still scared of these hordes of enemies. Put the same structure in an RPG and "I charge the stormtroopers - they can only hit me on a 3, so I should take them down before one of them gets lucky. Besides, one shot isn't likely to take be below 0 BOD - he's have to roll a 17 or 18!"

[lemming]

Re: The Stormtrooper Effect

 

You're correct. Vader blew his Piloting roll at a critical moment.

Damn 18s! Or did he have levels in targetting to get by Luke's force? Hmmmm.

 

Of course later on, Lucas may give us a different editing...

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: The Stormtrooper Effect

 

Did any one SS trooper have to be a crack shot for people to be afraid of the SS?

 

I think the comments made are pretty accurate - when fired on, the characters who didn't get hit put considerable effort into getting out of the way. I'd suggest they're passable shots, but not sharpshooters by any stretch.

 

This is another "RPG breaks down from source material" issue. In the movies, huge numbers of opponents (stormtroopers, Indians, Nazis, whatever) chase the Hero and never hit. Yet the characters are still scared of these hordes of enemies. Put the same structure in an RPG and "I charge the stormtroopers - they can only hit me on a 3, so I should take them down before one of them gets lucky. Besides, one shot isn't likely to take be below 0 BOD - he's have to roll a 17 or 18!"

This is the reason why I like the Blazing Away/PRE attack combo. My players have always been pretty good sports about being on the receiving end of PRE attacks (the trade off is that I let them use PRE attacks with impunity...if they pitched a fit they'd be more restricted) It does a good job of simulating the "Run the Imperials are here!" effect while letting me write them up as superior soliders without instantly fragging the PC's

[Dust Raven]

Re: The Stormtrooper Effect

 

You're correct. Vader blew his Piloting roll at a critical moment.

 

It looks to me like it made it. You don't make a Combat Pilot roll to avoid being hit by something, the ship's DCV takes care of that. You make the roll if the vehicle takes KB from something to maintain control. I think that's what he did, and when he got his ship undercontrol, he was already too far from the fight (well, from Luke) to stop the destruction of the Death Star so he took off. At least that's the way I see it. I haven't read the novelization.

[austenandrews]

Re: The Stormtrooper Effect

 

I figured it was "Han shoots mook, mook careens toward Vader, Vader blows rolls to evade & gets knocked out into space." If memory serves he didn't regain control until after the Death Star was already dust. "Best starpilot in the galaxy" indeed.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: The Stormtrooper Effect

 

Of couse Vader spun off into space... Look how weird the control surfaces are on a TIE fighter compared to the sleek rebel ships...

Oh, wait....

Control surfaces don't matter in space

My bad

 

*tounge firmly planted in cheek*