Length of a summon

[Mazeus Xenon]

I have been looking through a number of other posts that have answered part of this so I apologize for some duplication here...

 

Anyway,

I am looking for a way to setup a "Animate Statue" effect for a spell. Basically, I built it as a Summon but only want the statue to be active for a specific amount of time. As I understand it, as Summon is an instant effect, a continuing charge does,'t really apply. What suggestions are out there for making this work out? I am thinking of having it set so that the statue is animated for like 5 minutes or something (long enough to usable in a combat or to break down a door or whatever). A couple of ideas I have are as follows:

 

1) Limitations of either Limited Time Frame: 5 Minutes (-1) or Costs END to Maintain (-½, maybe -1)

2) Have a required Disadvantage to the "Golem" that means it automatically ceases to animate after a specific amount of time (rather large Physical Limitation?)

3) ... um... no more ideas... anyone else?

 

And if I am missing something obvious (like a previous post that covers all of this already) feel free to direct me that way!

 

Thanks folks,

Mazeus Xenon

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Length of a summon

 

A summon lasts for EGO/5 tasks by default per controll roll. Each phase of combat is 1 task. So, having the summon last for 5 minutes of combat would actually be an advantage.

 

If the Statue was Slavishly Loyal +1, then it would perform EGO tasks. Assuming a SPD of 3 and an EGO of 18 that means 6 turns of combat - just over 1 minute.

 

If you are coming up with a different model than the task model, then you will have to adjust accordingly.

[Mazeus Xenon]

Re: Length of a summon

 

Okay, I must be an idiot or I don't have the right rules book... nowhere does it state that an Amicable summon will only last for a limited time or #of tasks... The rules do state that the EGO/5 is the standard but someone can perform a second test of will to keep the summon creature around for another X tasks. If something is slavishly loyal, it would take little ability to force it to stay longer.

 

Now I may be reading into this far more than I need to, but it never actually states that one task is 1 phase in length. Summoning a Demon and having it usable for only 5 phases seems a little weird, especially if is "Defend this lair against all intruders" may take a lot longer than "go kill that guy over there". I know as a GM I can basically do whatever rule I want, but I am looking for some other possible hard facts to help me out... I just don't see the text as meaning "1 task per phase" but as something more broad than that.

 

Of course, this is just my opinion... what do you think?

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Length of a summon

 

I believe it is in the FAQ and possibly sidekick. But the text is on 5ER 223 in the Controlling Summoned Beings paragraph. The chart is on 5ER 225.

 

The GM decides what constitutes a “task†for purposes of Summon. For combat, each Phase of fighting usually equals one task. For ordinary household chores, carrying loads, or pulling wagons, each day of service normally qualifies as one task. Keep common sense, dramatic sense, and considerations of game balance in mind.

 

And essentially for each level of Amicable the divisor on the number of tasks drops by 1. (EGO/5, EGO/4, EGO/3, EGO/2, EGO/1).

[Seenar]

Re: Length of a summon

 

Personally, if the Summon is a Slave, I let there be more time for it to be out as a house rule.

 

But, if you feel bound to do it Steve's way, then purchace an assosiated Follower with the Summon, and put some limitations on that.

[AlHazred]

Re: Length of a summon

 

Hmmm... What if I only want it to perform 1 task, and then leave?

 

And if each Phase of combat is 1 task, then telling a summoned being, "Follow this trail to the end and kill the creature making it" is a pointless command, since it'll run out of tasks before finishing the combat.

 

Perhaps a slightly more liberal translation of "task" is for me...

[Greatwyrm]

Re: Length of a summon

 

A phase of combat is one task, but IIRC you can get one day of non-combat service per task. I don't have FH handy, but I think guarding stuff and manual labor both count as one day per task. If you had EGO tasks to work with, it could probably track for EGO-1 days and then spend one phase in combat on the last day.

[Gunrunner]

Re: Length of a summon

 

"The GM decides what constitutes a “task†for purposes of Summon. For combat, each Phase of fighting usually equals one task. For ordinary household chores, carrying loads, or pulling wagons, each day of service normally qualifies as one task. Keep common sense, dramatic sense, and considerations of game balance in mind."

 

I agree with AlHazred. That is one of the dumbest rules I've ever seen in Hero. So you're telling me that a being that is supposedly "slavishly loyal" is only going to fight for around ten phases for the character summoning it and then take off??? I can't believe they put that in Revised. So as an EGO 10 summoner, I could have a summoned creature do ten days of back-breaking labor for me but my "fanatically devoted" creature has something against throwing more than ten punches at my enemy. Ya, that makes alot of sense

[Curufea]

Re: Length of a summon

 

Well - the last sentence of the rules you quote then comes into effect.

[Outsider]

Re: Length of a summon

 

For play balance, my rule of thumb is that the creature lasts longer/will do lengthier tasks if it took more of the caster's time to summon.

 

If a necromancer spends a phase calling a corpse forth from the ground to serve him, it will perform what tasks he assigns for a few minutes, at most. If he spends longer "doing it right" it will perform tasks for hours, days, or even weeks. If he goes all out with rituals, blood sacrifices, and so on, he will have a corpse that will serve at a task for months or years. Each change of task would still burn up a 'task' though.

 

Basically, a summoned creature burns 1 'task' per (summon time) of combat, or per (summon time, down 2 levels) of non combat action.

 

So that necromancer, if he spends just a phase calling forth skeletons (slavishly loyal) from the ground, will have 10 minutes labor from them, or 10 phases of combat.

 

His neighbor the demon-summoner who spent all day doing rituals and sacrifices to summon up and bind a major demon from the nether-hells, might get only 2 tasks, but they will last a month each if non combat, or a day each for combat. Which is fine with the demon summoner, as all he is going to do is to order the demon to find and kill an enemy. (find = 1 task (non combat), kill = 1 task (combat)) Overall, the demon would stick to the search for 60 days, less the time it spent fighting*30.

 

All this is just a house rule/rule of thumb, of course.

[Seenar]

Re: Length of a summon

 

Again, this is one of those areas where I disagree with Steve, just like his weird rulings on Damage Shield and Variable Limitations. Since I don't like it, I just do it my way.

 

If you feel compelled to do it the "Offical" way, then buy a "follower" that is your summoned creature. Just give it some limitations. A follower can be built to be slavishly loyal without the extra costs on the summon so the poins can balence out.

[Mazeus Xenon]

Re: Length of a summon

 

Wow... I never knew I would open such a can of worms with this one! I thank everyone for their input and basically put together this house rule (I am such a gaming nerd that I have written my own player's manual for all of my house rules):

 

"The type of tasks involved also affect the time a creature remains. As a standard, a being will remain in service for 1 day for every task available. If no new task is assigned after 24 hours, the creature will use up an available task to repeat the task for the next day. The exception to this rule is when the task involved potential stress or heavy tasking of the summoned creature, primarily in combat.

 

Combat actions use up tasks every phase, but these do not count against the total days a creature will be available. This basically indicates the number of successive combat-like actions a summoned creature can perform before the character must re-dominate them. If attacking in combat has not been already setup as a task (“Defend Me from Harmâ€, “Kill that guy over thereâ€, etc.) then activating the summoned creature into combat must have a task available to perform the action. The creature may still react in combat as normal but may not necessarily attack enemies over friends, if they go into combat at all. Failing a roll does allow the character to use another available task to force the creature to continue with the action but does lower the total number of tasks available."

 

Basically it allows the summoned creature to exist for 1 day per task, as long as there is a task available per day. I have also put down Advantages and Limitations to alter the time (increase or decrease it). I do end up having to "just say no" to a few of my players (I have one in particular who truely tests me every game), but it is nice to set down some rules I can live with!

[Yesman]

Re: Length of a summon

 

I'm pretty sure that the tasks/EGO thing was presented as an optional/alternate way of handling Summon's with varying degrees of amicability, nothing to get worked up about..