Character: Bêlit

[Susano]

Re: Character: Bêlit

 

Apparently you are dead-set on the Marvel version of Bêlit. Fine. Allow me to quote from the story Queen of the Black Coast to show my thoughts on the matter.

 

On Bêlit and why she is captain:

 

"[Conan] realized that to these men Bêlit was more than a woman: a goddess whose will was unquestioned."

 

On Bêlit's possible origins:

 

"...the mating-dance of Bêlit, whose fathers were kings of Askalon!"

 

On why Conan let's Bêlit take the lead:

 

"Conan agreed. He generally agreed to her plans. Hers was the mind that directed their raids, his the arm that carried out her ideas. It mattered little to him where they sailed or whom they fought, so long as they sailed and fought. He found the life good."

 

On the origins of her crew:

 

"...only eighty spearmen remained... But Bêlit would not take the time to make the long cruise southward to the island kingdoms where she recruited her buccaneers."

 

On Bêlit's fearlessness:

 

"I am not afraid either... I was never afraid. I have looked into the naked fangs of Death too often."

 

This is what I worked from. And I wasn't keen on embellishing the character any beyond what Howard wrote directly, or what I could infer from the story. I'm sorry, but he never wrote her as some form of warrior-maid -- that would be Valeria, who he specifically described as a swordsman of no small skill.

[Ki-rin]

Re: Character: Bêlit

 

Apparently you are dead-set on the Marvel version of Bêlit. Fine. Allow me to quote from the story Queen of the Black Coast to show my thoughts on the matter.

 

On Bêlit and why she is captain:

 

"[Conan] realized that to these men Bêlit was more than a woman: a goddess whose will was unquestioned."

 

On Bêlit's possible origins:

 

"...the mating-dance of Bêlit, whose fathers were kings of Askalon!"

 

On why Conan let's Bêlit take the lead:

 

"Conan agreed. He generally agreed to her plans. Hers was the mind that directed their raids, his the arm that carried out her ideas. It mattered little to him where they sailed or whom they fought, so long as they sailed and fought. He found the life good."

 

On the origins of her crew:

 

"...only eighty spearmen remained... But Bêlit would not take the time to make the long cruise southward to the island kingdoms where she recruited her buccaneers."

 

On Bêlit's fearlessness:

 

"I am not afraid either... I was never afraid. I have looked into the naked fangs of Death too often."

 

This is what I worked from. And I wasn't keen on embellishing the character any beyond what Howard wrote directly, or what I could infer from the story. I'm sorry, but he never wrote her as some form of warrior-maid --

I'm with you 100%. She's not a "warrior-maid" (Valeria is much better described this way). She's a Leader, a Chief. She is more akin to King Arthur vs. Valeria being more akin to Sir Gawain. Leaders of warriors must have decent, not necessarily outstanding but decent, warrior skills. Else how can they effectively plan and use warriors? History is replete with the disasters that take place when those that lead in battle do not have enough familarity with the skills of those that are led. For Be'lit to have led warriors and seamen at the tactical level she did, she had to have passable levels of skill in those areas in addition to other stuff.

 

What I think you're missing is that IMHO Marvel's interpetation of who Be'lit is from these passages is more on target than your original submission at the beginning of this thread.

 

IMHO, yours is a subset, rather than a contradiction (except for minor things like making her shorter than she should be... ...although I suppose that could be seen the same way ), of Be'lit rather than correctly expressing her totality as well as Marvel did. As I said, I think a suitably tweaked version of Hierax's CS is probably the most accurate version of REH's Be'lit using HERO that I've seen so far.

 

-- that would be Valeria, who he specifically described as a swordsman of no small skill.

Far more than "no small skill". For someone as expert with a sword as Conan to be impressed (bearing in mind that he's probably 1 in a million skill-wise), Valeria had to be more than just "proficient." Conan sees and works with "proficient" all the time. Valeria had to be _expert_ with a sword to impress someone of Conan's sword skills.

 

Valeria is a far more one-dimensional character than Be'lit. Her sword-skill, courage, and beauty were basically her whole story.

 

OTOH, Be'lit was one of the most complex women Conan ever encountered in his life (may even be the most complex, but I think it's close.)

[AlHazred]

Re: Character: Bêlit

 

History is replete with the disasters that take place when those that lead in battle do not have enough familarity with the skills of those that are led.

 

One might argue that this is exactly what happened that caused her death, and that this indicates she's less of the tactical leader you make her out to be.

 

What I think you're missing is that IMHO Marvel's interpetation of who Be'lit is from these passages is more on target than your original submission at the beginning of this thread.

 

What I think you're missing is that Mike's working directly from the one story in which she appears; nothing more, nothing less. It's hard to see how working from the one canonical piece she showed up in makes his somehow "less on target."

 

Secondly, I have to object to your phrase "on target." I find it funny that you seem to find it difficult to accept a leader who is not familiar with fighting. Howard's writings have winged gorillas and ancient magical aliens with elephant heads and the power to shrink people. This certainly seems no more unlikely than those. And it's not like we have the "historical Bêlit" to compare it to.

 

OTOH, Be'lit was one of the most complex women Conan ever encountered in his life (may even be the most complex, but I think it's close.)

 

She showed up in one story. Not even a particularly long one. If she seems complex, it is more a tribute to Howard's skill with short-but-evocative prose than any surfeit of biographical information.

 

I'm not saying you couldn't make a case for the combat-competent Bêlit based on the Marvel Comics adaptation. Hell, I'd love to see it, as opposed to Heirax's composite, which combines the comics, Howard's stories, and de Camp's pastiches. But I'm saying that Mike's goal of statting out the Bêlit who shows up in Queen of the Black Coast is not going to be served by giving her abilities she is never seen to possess. Mike's always scrupulous about avoiding putting any personal interpretation into his character writeups if he can avoid it, and I've followed suit in those that I contributed to his site.

[yamamura]

Re: Character: Bêlit

 

I have to agree with Alhazred and unless we know a way to communicate with Mr. Howard, her 'true' height will remain a matter of conjecture. I will have to say this has caused me to want to get the book in which this story takes place and reread it. Also I have to admire Mike for taking what is in the story and staying true to it. The GURPS write up of this character imho, took excess baggage in an attempt to balance and flesh her out. Finally, if I had a problem with the height on Mike's version, I don't but if I did, I would just change it to what I believed it should be.

 

G

[Susano]

Re: Character: Bêlit

 

Watch this space for a slightly edited and corrected Bêlit.

 

In similar news, I am developing the winged Akaana from the Solomon Kane stories, and intend to see if I can create a Bran Mak Morn character sheet from the upcoming volume (due May 31 or so).

 

The third Conan book is due out in November of this year. Once I have that, I will work-up an accurate as possible Conan, Valeria, and a "dragon" (as seen in the story Red Nails). The latter is basically a stegosaurus with teeth, IIRC correctly.

 

Oh, and I dug out Vols 1-3 of John Carter of Mars....

[Susano]

Re: Character: Bêlit

 

Although the costume is all wrong (like that ever stopped a Conan artist before... ), this picture does represent what I figure Valeria would look like.

[Davies]

Re: Character: Bêlit

 

Just a quick note regarding Bêlit's origins: the story presented in Marvel Comics was an adaptation of Poul Anderson's pastiche novel Conan the Rebel.

 

I'm not an REH purist, but I do acknowledge that de Camp's pastiches of his work were markedly inferior to the originals -- but on the other hand, Anderson's novel was superior to de Camp's stories.

 

Chris Davies.

[Susano]

Re: Character: Bêlit

 

I have updated Bêlit's character sheet. Changes should become apparent around 6:30 PM EST 04-09-2005.

[Steve]

Re: Character: Bêlit

 

Oh' date=' and I dug out Vols 1-3 of John Carter of Mars.... [/quote']

 

What? Not Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser?

[Susano]

Re: Character: Bêlit

 

What? Not Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser?

 

I, as of yet, don't own a complete run of Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser novels. And they are damned hard to find! You want to send 'em to me, I'll write them up!

[AlHazred]

Re: Character: Bêlit

 

At best guess' date=' Bêlit stands somewhere [b']between[/b] 5'5" and 5'10". She is described as "supple and dangerous," as well as "lithe," "voluptuous," "slender," and "formed like a goddess" (hence her high COM score). Her hair is a rich black, her eyes dark, and her only garment is a silken girdle (one presumes this describes a form of loincloth as opposed to just a belt), which exposes her body to good effect (of course, if that is all she wears, then realistically she would go from being an ivory-skinned goddess to an bronze-skinned one fairly quickly...).

 

I believe you have two typos in the description. Just a few nits to pick.

[Susano]

Re: Character: Bêlit

 

Keeee-rap. And to think I proofed that several times. Actually, I see what needs to be fixed. Will be uploaded in a bit.

[Steve]

Re: Character: Bêlit

 

I' date=' as of yet, don't [u']own[/u] a complete run of Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser novels. And they are damned hard to find! You want to send 'em to me, I'll write them up!

 

Try this webpage Bookfinder.com

 

There is a ton of Fritz Leiber's stuff out there.

[yamamura]

Re: Character: Bêlit

 

Well I have now reread the story and have to say Mike's creation is on target except for WF: Bow. In the section; The Attack from the Air it mentions Conan having in his hand the Shemite bow, such as Belit had taught her pirates to use. So I will say having WF: Bow is justified.

 

G

[Susano]

Re: Character: Bêlit

 

Well I have now reread the story and have to say Mike's creation is on target except for WF: Bow. In the section; The Attack from the Air it mentions Conan having in his hand the Shemite bow' date=' such as Belit had taught her pirates to use. So I will say having WF: Bow is justified.[/quote']

 

I missed that line the first time though! Thanks for spotting it. I've added the WF and will be loading the corrected character sheet later.

[yamamura]

Re: Character: Bêlit

 

Glad to be of service.

 

G