Only In Hero ID questions

[Alverant]

I'm working on a character concept and have some questions about OIHID. The character is a new member of an interstellar organization of Guardians. By focusing, saying the Guardian's mantra, and being in a situaion where his powers will be needed to help others he is transformed into a brick hero. Now my questions:

 

1) Since the OIHID requires time and a way to stop the transformation, is what I have enough (focus, incantations, and situation) not enough or even too much?

 

2) In his human form his powers are in "stand by" mode and perform repair and maintenance duties. I bought this as Regerative Healing, only in normal ID. How much of a limitation is it worth? I figure 3/4 since when combined with OIHID we have an even -1. It's like the Lockout limitation, either brick or healing.

 

3) With each good deed he does, he gets to use the Guardian powers whenever he wants. In game terms, some of the OIHID is bought off. Eventually he'll have his super-stats at human maximum and have the less-obvious powers (IR vision, etc). To use his full Guardian powers, he'll have to change but it would be instant and unstoppable; hense no limitation. Since he HAS to spend some XP this way each session could I take a character disadvantage "Must spend at least 1 XP per game session on average to buy off OIHID" for 5 points? (I figure on 5 disad points for each XP, double disad points if the GM picks how to spend them.)

 

Thanks in advance. If you need me to clairfy anything, just ask.

Jason

[Sean Waters]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

I'm working on a character concept and have some questions about OIHID. The character is a new member of an interstellar organization of Guardians. By focusing, saying the Guardian's mantra, and being in a situaion where his powers will be needed to help others he is transformed into a brick hero. Now my questions:

 

1) Since the OIHID requires time and a way to stop the transformation, is what I have enough (focus, incantations, and situation) not enough or even too much?

 

2) In his human form his powers are in "stand by" mode and perform repair and maintenance duties. I bought this as Regerative Healing, only in normal ID. How much of a limitation is it worth? I figure 3/4 since when combined with OIHID we have an even -1. It's like the Lockout limitation, either brick or healing.

 

3) With each good deed he does, he gets to use the Guardian powers whenever he wants. In game terms, some of the OIHID is bought off. Eventually he'll have his super-stats at human maximum and have the less-obvious powers (IR vision, etc). To use his full Guardian powers, he'll have to change but it would be instant and unstoppable; hense no limitation. Since he HAS to spend some XP this way each session could I take a character disadvantage "Must spend at least 1 XP per game session on average to buy off OIHID" for 5 points? (I figure on 5 disad points for each XP, double disad points if the GM picks how to spend them.)

 

Thanks in advance. If you need me to clairfy anything, just ask.

Jason

 

Welcome, moquif.

 

Erm...

 

1. Seems pretty fair: the change needs to be stopable, but you probably don't need to have all those restrictions on the change, ESPECIALLY the situation: I'd probably apply that as a seperate limitation on some or all of the Guardian powers (only useable when doing the right thing for an extra -1/4, or more if you have a really tight GM)

 

2. I'd let you get away with -1: you'll be using the power less than half the time and if you don't have many other powers in 'normal mode' then you're not going to want to change to normal just to get the healing: it is more of a between scenes power, so I wouldn't get too harsh with it.

 

3. Interesting concept. I'd certainly allow the disadvantage, maybe even allow you more points: seems like a physical disadvantage to me....it is a restriction on your character's development, about which you can do nothing.

[Alverant]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

I had planned out the "Required to Spend XP on ..." Character Disadvangage to balance against potential abuse. The concept is that the player is required to take some of his XP and put it towards canceling a limitation or buying off another disadvantage. Other examples would be working off a probationary period by an organization (Watched), adapting to a given enviroment (Suseptable) or attack (Vulurnability). If used against a disad, the effect is gradual. A 14-watched becomes 11- then 8- as more points are spent on it. The big problem I see is what happens when this Disadvantage has run its course? Will the Required To Spend have to be bought off? Changed to another limitation/disad? Replaced with something new entirely (like a 0pt disad earned in the course of the campaign). Using the same concept, this could be used to put extra points into a hidden power the GM picks. My GM saves one point of XP then gives us a big mystery power.

 

Now this disad is different from the rest since it affects the player instead of the character so would need GM approval. It's worth 5pts per point of XP set aside; double that if the GM picks where it's spent. I'd include a 10pt Variable XP option where how much XP is allocated depends on how much the limitation/disad was used in the session. For example if the entire session was spent in Guardian mode, all the XP would go towards buying off the limitation. But if it was a pure role play session without the Guardian, all that XP would be under my control to spend how I want.

 

When maxed out (3XP under GM's control) it's a 30pt disadvantage which is pretty heavy. Plus don't forget once the disad is used up, it must be bought off or replaced so we don't want it to cost too much.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

1) Since the OIHID requires time and a way to stop the transformation, is what I have enough (focus, incantations, and situation) not enough or even too much?

 

2) In his human form his powers are in "stand by" mode and perform repair and maintenance duties. I bought this as Regerative Healing, only in normal ID. How much of a limitation is it worth? I figure 3/4 since when combined with OIHID we have an even -1. It's like the Lockout limitation, either brick or healing.

 

I'd say OIHID is fine. I'd look to how often you need to regenerate in combat to assess the limitation on the Regeneration - I might even be inclined to call it -1/4 as well since you can switch freely between the two forms.

 

3) With each good deed he does' date=' he gets to use the Guardian powers whenever he wants. In game terms, some of the OIHID is bought off. Eventually he'll have his super-stats at human maximum and have the less-obvious powers (IR vision, etc). To use his full Guardian powers, he'll have to change but it would be instant and unstoppable; hense no limitation. Since he HAS to spend some XP this way each session could I take a character disadvantage "Must spend at least 1 XP per game session on average to buy off OIHID" for 5 points? (I figure on 5 disad points for each XP, double disad points if the GM picks how to spend them.)[/quote']

 

I wouldn't allow this as a disadvantage at all. The character will either spend points to buy off OIHID, or he won't. This is a plan for future xp expenditures, not a disadvantage, in my view.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

I think that the disadvantage does effect the character: it is one thing to be able to buy what you like with XP, so you can react to an extent to the enemies in the campaign and the situations that arise, it is another to HAVE TO spend it in a certain way: you lose part of that ability to react.

 

Hugh makes the point that it isn't a disadvantage if that's how you planned to spend the points anyway (paraphrased, and probably inaccurate, but that's the way I read it), but I'd say this is different. 1. You HAVE to spend the points in this way and 2. The number of times I've started off with a development plan then seen it go out the window when I've got a better idea....

 

You might as well say you don't get points for having a code v killing becasue that's how you were going to play the character anyway.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

Can I buy "earns xp at twice the normal rate" as a talent? How about "only pays half xp to buy down limitations"? To me, xp is part of the game mechanics, not something to incorporate into them.

 

Now, with that in mind, I also wouldn't hold the character to a fixed development plan. I just won't give them disadvantage points for having such a plan (or charge the player with no plan for a Talent - "free spirit - may spend xp without restriction").

[OddHat]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

I'm working on a character concept and have some questions about OIHID. The character is a new member of an interstellar organization of Guardians. By focusing, saying the Guardian's mantra, and being in a situaion where his powers will be needed to help others he is transformed into a brick hero. Now my questions:

 

1) Since the OIHID requires time and a way to stop the transformation, is what I have enough (focus, incantations, and situation) not enough or even too much?

 

That's fine from a coneptual POV. The GM can stop you from making the transformation easily enough by saying that you're too frightened to focus (PRE attack), or drugging you, or using a gag, or saying that you are trying to help yourself...

 

A friend once told me that he feels OHID should require 3 full phases for a change. I think that's a fair benchmark, depending on how hard the change is to make. For this guy, in my game, I'd require a full phase. YMMV.

 

2) In his human form his powers are in "stand by" mode and perform repair and maintenance duties. I bought this as Regerative Healing, only in normal ID. How much of a limitation is it worth? I figure 3/4 since when combined with OIHID we have an even -1. It's like the Lockout limitation, either brick or healing.

 

I'd say -1/4 for Only In Non-Super Form, but then Regeneration is cheap if you buy it at the 1 per 5 minutes level or so.

 

3) With each good deed he does, he gets to use the Guardian powers whenever he wants. In game terms, some of the OIHID is bought off. Eventually he'll have his super-stats at human maximum and have the less-obvious powers (IR vision, etc). To use his full Guardian powers, he'll have to change but it would be instant and unstoppable; hense no limitation. Since he HAS to spend some XP this way each session could I take a character disadvantage "Must spend at least 1 XP per game session on average to buy off OIHID" for 5 points? (I figure on 5 disad points for each XP, double disad points if the GM picks how to spend them.)

 

That's not a disad or a limit, it's just how he plans to spend his XP. I would not give any points for it.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

1) Since the OIHID requires time and a way to stop the transformation' date=' is what I have enough (focus, incantations, and situation) not enough or even too much?[/quote']

It honestly depends on how the game is run. Generally, I've ruled that changing into hero id requires a Full Phase action that reduced you to 1/2 DCV. That's it. To quallify for the OIHID Limitation, there must be some way to prevent the change from occuring when the character can take that action. The most common preventions is "must have costume." For characters that summon their costume, having some other item (like He-Man's sword) or needing to be in a specific type of situation may count. If you consider the needing focus (like 1/2 DCV Concentration, not the object) and incantations (doesn't need to say them loud or even be heard, just say them and mean them) to quallify him for the first part, and the needing to help someone as the situation, then you're good.

 

2) In his human form his powers are in "stand by" mode and perform repair and maintenance duties. I bought this as Regerative Healing, only in normal ID. How much of a limitation is it worth? I figure 3/4 since when combined with OIHID we have an even -1. It's like the Lockout limitation, either brick or healing.

Usually I'd just reverse the OIHID Limitation, using Only In Normal ID which has the same value (-1/4). Then again, I tend to run games where the characters spend a lot of time in normal ID. If that's not the case for you, a -1 is not unjustified.

 

3) With each good deed he does, he gets to use the Guardian powers whenever he wants. In game terms, some of the OIHID is bought off. Eventually he'll have his super-stats at human maximum and have the less-obvious powers (IR vision, etc). To use his full Guardian powers, he'll have to change but it would be instant and unstoppable; hense no limitation. Since he HAS to spend some XP this way each session could I take a character disadvantage "Must spend at least 1 XP per game session on average to buy off OIHID" for 5 points? (I figure on 5 disad points for each XP, double disad points if the GM picks how to spend them.)

 

Would you allow a Disadvantage for not being able to purchase certain Skills or Powers? Say I'm playing a Martial Artist character and I want a Disadvantage: Can Never Buy Acrobatics. Would you allow that? I wouldn't. What a player does and does not spend points on is the player's decision, and is only limited by the GM. You don't see anyone out there with Is Subject To GM's Will as a Disadvantage, and that's pretty much what this is.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

I never like the idea of railroading a character's development. I may disallow some XP expenditures for general game balance or story purposes (and there's always, "You're going to have to spend some time practicing if you want to learn that Skill;" mostly appropriate for heroic games), but forcing the player to spend experience the way you want is a big no-no IMHO. It will generate resentment, and a feeling of helplessness. After all, is it your character, or the player's character? All players want some power over how their characters develop.

 

That being said, I might award some additional experience that can only be spent in a limited number of ways, based upon the character roleplaying the development of his/her character, creative use of an ability, a clever way to buy off a Disadvantage or Limitation, etc. Even so, I'd make it clear that it isn't replacing the experience the player gets to spend normally, and I would be careful to allow all players the opportunity to gain such rewards.

 

If you want to go this way in your case, I would go the route of making it very clear to the player that (s)he can buy off the Disadvantages/Limitations in this manner (if that is desired!).

[Alverant]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

prestidigitator, I think part of the confusion is that this is a disad the player chose, not the GM. By taking it the player willingly surrenders part of how the character acts. Just as Code Against Killing should prevent a character from executing street punks, this disad limits the character's actions.

 

Disadvantages limit what a character can do in one way or another, this is basically a new way. I can take a "total" psychological limitation or choose to play the character as if he had one. I don't see a fundamental difference between that and my own disad. If you're worried about the GM controlling the character, what about Unluck? It gives the GM special permission to mess with the character in new ways. Having it affect XP is unconventional and new, but I think it's similar to a psych lim. Both direct how the character will act, the difference is psych lims affect a particular situation and the other affects progress. This disad can delay buying a new skill for example. Don't I deserve points for loosing some RP freedom?

[Alverant]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

About the regen limitation, my character isn't likely to change back into his human form during combat. Also as a brick he's not likely to take Body damage in the first place. I'm not even sure how often it will be needed since some groups have a healer of some sort. How often do superheroes take body and how does it affect them between adventurers and from one adventure to another? If I take 5 body one session, will I still have that damage the next or will it be healed via GM's fait?

[OddHat]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

About the regen limitation' date=' my character isn't likely to change back into his human form during combat. Also as a brick he's not likely to take Body damage in the first place. I'm not even sure how often it will be needed since some groups have a healer of some sort. How often do superheroes take body and how does it affect them between adventurers and from one adventure to another? If I take 5 body one session, will I still have that damage the next or will it be healed via GM's fait?[/quote']

 

That depends completely on the GM and the campaign tone.

 

Generally, a Brick with Hardened, Resistant PD and ED may go his entire career without taking a single point of Body...unless the GM decides otherwise (say by throwing a foe at him with a Does Body Ego Attack or NND). In a darker sort of game the Brick may take body in every adventure, even to the point of losing body parts. So, talk to your GM.

 

Note however that Regeneration, 1 Body per Hour, Regrows Limbs, is very cheap, and will fix you up completely between adventures (unless the GM rules otherwise).

[ghost-angel]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

On that character Disadvantage .. there's no way I'd allow it. All Disadvantages, as far as I'm concerned, should pertain directly to the Character - not the Mechanics of the Character but The Character.

 

Since we base XP Expenditure off of what you Roleplay your character doing both in session and between session (go to the library a lot, you get to buy KSs, go to the gym and you can buy up STR, use your Eye Beams every single adventure trying new tricks: get to buy up or a whole new power with that SFX, etc...).

 

At that point, it's down to roleplaying your character correctly and the XP should be spent accordingly. And that's not worth any Disad points IMO.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

prestidigitator' date=' I think part of the confusion is that this is a disad the player chose, not the GM. By taking it the player willingly surrenders part of how the character acts. Just as Code Against Killing should prevent a character from executing street punks, this disad limits the character's actions.[/quote']

 

There's a huge difference between how a player plays his character and how a player spends points on his character. One is an in-game, role-playing thing, the other is a completely out of game, abstract meta-game thing. Unluck doesn't dictate how a character develops in points, or restrict him in developing the concept and archtype. It affects game play and that's it. No Disad, or any other aspect of a character's mechanics, should alter or restrict how many points a character recreives or how a player may spend them. Otherwise we all might as well be taking a Disadvantage for only spending points in concept, even though it's generlly assumed we all do it that way anyway.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

There's a huge difference between how a player plays his character and how a player spends points on his character. One is an in-game' date=' role-playing thing, the other is a completely out of game, abstract meta-game thing. Unluck doesn't dictate how a character develops in points, or restrict him in developing the concept and archtype. It affects game play and that's it. No Disad, or any other aspect of a character's mechanics, should alter or restrict how many points a character recreives or how a player may spend them. Otherwise we all might as well be taking a Disadvantage for only spending points in concept, even though it's generlly assumed we all do it that way anyway.[/quote']

 

Well, maybe Unluck should reduce your XP per session by 1 per die. That seems pretty unlucky!

 

I don't like the idea of disadvantages for how you spend your points either. If we alow "can ony spend xp this way", what other options should we open up?

 

Maybe we play with Standard Supers campaign limits. Can I have a 10 point disad because my attacks and defenses are below the campaign maxima (excuse me "can't be more than X points below the campaign maxima")? Of course, if I want to change that, it just means I have to repay the 10 point loan first by buying off the disadvantage.

 

By the same token, can I pay for a talent "can exceed campaign maxima at will"?

 

If every other player gets one signature power that exceeds the campaign max, can I take a disad for not having such a power? Can I buy a talent that allows me to have two such powers?

 

Actuially, I'm also really talking myself out of "Normal Characteristic Maxima" as a disadvantage here as well. Maybe I can live with Age on the basis the revised limits are only indicia of other frailties this Physical limitation should bring, but giving a Super 20 points for not being Super in characteristics is also a Disads for in-concept design, isn't it?

[OddHat]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

Actuially' date=' I'm also really talking myself out of "Normal Characteristic Maxima" as a disadvantage here as well. Maybe I can live with Age on the basis the revised limits are only indicia of other frailties this Physical limitation should bring, but giving a Super 20 points for not being Super in characteristics is also a Disads for in-concept design, isn't it?[/quote']

 

I usually treat NCM as worth 0 points. In Champions campaigns its just a matter of concept ("I'm a normal human with gadgets, so if I want a SPD over 4 I'll need some cyberwear or a really good back-story"), and in Heroic level campaigns everyone has it by default. I don't like the cost doubling that much either; I'd rather just say, as a GM, "Your concept is normal human Certified Public Accountant with an interest in monster hunting; that concept does not justify a 30 STR."

[prestidigitator]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

There's a huge difference between how a player plays his character and how a player spends points on his character. One is an in-game' date=' role-playing thing, the other is a completely out of game, abstract meta-game thing. Unluck doesn't dictate how a character develops in points, or restrict him in developing the concept and archtype. It affects game play and that's it. No Disad, or any other aspect of a character's mechanics, should alter or restrict how many points a character recreives or how a player may spend them. Otherwise we all might as well be taking a Disadvantage for only spending points in concept, even though it's generlly assumed we all do it that way anyway.[/quote']

Agreed. I would tend to state it as, "Disadvantages can limit how the character acts, not how the player acts."

 

I think the general idea we are getting at here is that the Disadvantage is really applying a meta-gaming principle inside the game system. Things in the game system should affect things inside the game system only, not how you choose to use the game system.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

I don't like the cost doubling that much either; I'd rather just say' date=' as a GM, "Your concept is normal human Certified Public Accountant with an interest in monster hunting; that concept does not justify a 30 STR."[/quote']

I like the cost doubling in Heroic games, where you can be truely exceptional, but that means a lot and thus costs a lot.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

Actuially' date=' I'm also really talking myself out of "Normal Characteristic Maxima" as a disadvantage here as well. Maybe I can live with Age on the basis the revised limits are only indicia of other frailties this Physical limitation should bring, but giving a Super 20 points for not being Super in characteristics is also a Disads for in-concept design, isn't it?[/quote']

 

I usually treat NCM as worth 0 points. In Champions campaigns its just a matter of concept ("I'm a normal human with gadgets, so if I want a SPD over 4 I'll need some cyberwear or a really good back-story"), and in Heroic level campaigns everyone has it by default. I don't like the cost doubling that much either; I'd rather just say, as a GM, "Your concept is normal human Certified Public Accountant with an interest in monster hunting; that concept does not justify a 30 STR."

 

Normal Characteristic Maxima has always bugged me. It shouldn't be an option for the players, but an option for the GM. Either the GM is running a supers game and no one has it (or if anyone does, it's worth 0 points) or he's running a normals game where everyone has it (whether they want it or not, and it's still worth 0 points). Anything that doesn't affect the actual game play isn't a Disadvantage and isn't worth any points. Just like it says in the book.

[Alverant]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

Can I buy "earns xp at twice the normal rate" as a talent? How about "only pays half xp to buy down limitations"? To me, xp is part of the game mechanics, not something to incorporate into them.

 

Now, with that in mind, I also wouldn't hold the character to a fixed development plan. I just won't give them disadvantage points for having such a plan (or charge the player with no plan for a Talent - "free spirit - may spend xp without restriction").

 

How many disads have a "cancel" talent or power? I can't think of any. Unluck and Luck come close but you can have both and rolling one level of luck does not counter one level of unluck, just that something good came out of something bad. To continue your example, if I can have Hunted by Viper can I buy a "Viper isn't interested in character" talent?

 

I can understand the logic of how Disads are meant to limit the character and not the player, but so do other disads. Nothing a player does will change the result if they take a Hunted or Watched. It's totally out of his hands. The character's normal progress is preemptied by the continuning transformation. Would it be better if I called it, "Transformation slowly becoming permenent" with the effect that the OIHID lim must be bought off? There are other disads that partially dictate how the character progresses. For example in a Teen Hero campaing most players would have the Social Limitation: Minor. But depending on their ages and how long the campaign lasts, at some point the characters will turn 18 and have to reduce or buy it off (until they turn 21 and become a full adult legally). Also a "Driven to learn Martial Arts" psych lim would mean that occasionally the character would have to buy another MA maneuver.

 

Almost any character disad can be used to push character development. I don't see what's wrong with spelling out how in a minor way.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

Almost any character disad can be used to push character development. I don't see what's wrong with spelling out how in a minor way.

For one thing I find your use of the word, "minor," questionable. You seem to be spelling out exactly how the player is to spend experience. I find that players rarely appreciate having no choices. I certainly don't like that when I am a player. Part of the reason I play systems such as Hero and the old White Wolf games is that I love the freedom of non-linear character development, and I find the approach of systems like D&D rather stifling (even the newer revisions restrict you very heavily with Cross-Class Skills, Class Abilities, Levels, Feat Chains/Prerequisites, etc.). Of course, maybe your players appreciate having no choices in life. I guess it could happen.

 

BTW, rather than having story and Disadvantages completely limit how a player spends experience, I like to work with the player to figure out how (s)he can develop the character the way (s)he wants to and have it mesh with the story and other aspects of the character. For example, the player wishes to keep that limitation of being a minor? Okay. Perhaps (through an unfortunate strike of Unluck or the workings of a Hunter with NCI?) the character's legal records have been lost, making it impossible to establish legal proof of adulthood. Or maybe the character's physical development has been halted or arrested somehow, and authorities simply cannot believe the character is an adult (in fact, when trying to engage in activities requiring adult status, the character tends to get laughed at, arrested for false identification, etc.). There are worlds of possibilities.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

How many disads have a "cancel" talent or power? I can't think of any. Unluck and Luck come close but you can have both and rolling one level of luck does not counter one level of unluck' date=' just that something good came out of something bad. To continue your example, if I can have Hunted by Viper can I buy a "Viper isn't interested in character" talent?[/quote']

 

The point is that if we are going to start having xp related disadvantages, logically there should also be xp related advantages. It's opening up a whole new can of worms, and I'd rather those worms just remaiun in the can.

 

To your specific question:

 

- I can have a negative or positive Reputation

 

- I can have people or organizations that dislike me (Hunted, Watched) or like me (Contact, Follower, Favour)

 

- I can have physical capabilities that are restricted (phys lim, susceptibility) or beyond the norm (stats, talents, powers)

 

- You note I can have good or bad luck

 

- I can be especially vulnerable (Vuln, susc) to certain attack forms, or especially resistant (DEF, Dam Red, often with limitations)

 

- I can change form intentionally (Multiform) or accidentally (Accidental Change)

 

I can understand the logic of how Disads are meant to limit the character and not the player' date=' but so do other disads. Nothing a player does will change the result if they take a Hunted or Watched. It's totally out of his hands.[/quote']

 

The character will be attacked by VIPER. They won't show up at the game session and **sob** melt my lucky dice with their new HeatBeam Emitter. Disadvantages have effects on the character - no big deal. However, the **character** does not structure his own development. The fact that my character wuld sure like to project optic blasts, like BeamMan (his idol) does not mean he will develop that power if I, the player, don't want him to have it, or don't think it's in character. Yet I get no points for "Can never buy optic blasts".

 

Would you give a bonus to that Viper hunted for "Can never buy off"? I wouldn't. Either it will get bought off as the game progresses, or it will not. And I vitually never buy off a disad, so I'd have no problem taking the extra points (then again, I rarely have trouble fining enough disad's, so I'd likely just have more 0 point disad's).

 

The character's normal progress is preemptied by the continuning transformation. Would it be better if I called it' date=' "Transformation slowly becoming permenent" with the effect that the OIHID lim must be bought off?[/quote']

 

If that wer ethe only effect? It wuld be a better description of your zero point "disadvantage". I also would not give RockMan the disadvantage "can never buy off his Distinctive Features", even if he called it "Trapped in monstrous form", nor allow FireBug the disadvantage "Can never buy off Always on", regardless of whether he called it "Permanent Fiery Mantle"

 

There are other disads that partially dictate how the character progresses. For example in a Teen Hero campaing most players would have the Social Limitation: Minor. But depending on their ages and how long the campaign lasts' date=' at some point the characters will turn 18 and have to reduce or buy it off (until they turn 21 and become a full adult legally). Also a "Driven to learn Martial Arts" psych lim would mean that occasionally the character would have to buy another MA maneuver.[/quote']

 

For the former, this becomes a part of the campaign ground rules. Aging iun many Supers games, for example, is very flexible. How long was Robin the Boy Wonder? A lot longer than 8 years! "Driven to learn MA" could be taken by a character with no natural aptitude. So could "Driven to learn magic". Theyhave the drive, and will take risks, act inappropriately, and prioritize their lives based on their desire to learn. That is a disadvantage. Directing xp to such efforts is a player choice. "Hey, he actually LEARNED something - wow!", gradually progressing to be the best MA/Sorceror Supreme, or "Why can I never cast a spell - I have to keep trying" are all valid interpretations.

 

Almost any character disad can be used to push character development. I don't see what's wrong with spelling out how in a minor way.

 

Nothing is wrong with spelling it out (IMO). But "nothing" is also the points it should generate, also IMO.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

The point is that if we are going to start having xp related disadvantages' date=' logically there should also be xp related advantages. It's opening up a whole new can of worms, and I'd rather those worms just remaiun in the can.[/quote']

:sigh: Actually, we sort of have them: Skill Enhancers. I don't know how I feel about the things. They should probably just be folded into Skill Levels. I don't know. Of course, I use them myself (especially Linguist), so I can't argue too ardently against them.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

XP is a game mechanic simulating the way in which a character develops, like EB is a game mechanic simulating projection of energy by your character. Both metasystem concepts with in game analogues. If your development is limited in some way, that is a disadvantage. If it was HAS TO SPEND XP ON COMBAT SKILLS, you'd get nothing for it, but having to spend XP on buying off limitations (so long as the character is playable with the limitations in place) is worth something - for one it prevents you spending all your CP on combat skills, like you want to.

 

Just becasue XP is a metasystem it doesn't mean that it is not simulating a 'real' aspect of the character.

 

I'd certainly give a disadvantage to someone who 'Learns slowly - only gets half XP'. Similarly I'd give a disadvantage to someone who was limited in how they could apply it - so long as it still amounted to a disadvantage.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Only In Hero ID questions

 

XP is a game mechanic simulating the way in which a character develops, like EB is a game mechanic simulating projection of energy by your character. Both metasystem concepts with in game analogues. If your development is limited in some way, that is a disadvantage. If it was HAS TO SPEND XP ON COMBAT SKILLS, you'd get nothing for it, but having to spend XP on buying off limitations (so long as the character is playable with the limitations in place) is worth something - for one it prevents you spending all your CP on combat skills, like you want to.

 

Just becasue XP is a metasystem it doesn't mean that it is not simulating a 'real' aspect of the character.

 

I'd certainly give a disadvantage to someone who 'Learns slowly - only gets half XP'. Similarly I'd give a disadvantage to someone who was limited in how they could apply it - so long as it still amounted to a disadvantage.

I don't think XP is simulating an aspect of the character, but rather how the character changes, which really doesn't need to be limited by what the character is now. I would never give a character less experience because they are a, "slow learner." I might make them take more time (in game) to learn something, but reducing the amount of experience based on a Disadvantage just feels like a bad idea, and I don't think I'd let players handicap their futures like that (if they wanted to just hold on to the XP without spending it, or just not write it down on their character sheet, fine). I view XP as a reward to the player as much as the character, and saying one character gets half the XP when the player roleplayed just as well as everyone else feels wrong.

 

But we can differ in this. I would just never play in a game in which you forced such bologne on me.