help! how do I build the super sniper?

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper?

 

We obviously have different ideas of what is effective, and what is appropriate. I am a massive Genre Fiend, and my games tend to be heavy on genre conventions... as well, I usually enforce soft CV and DC caps on players.

My example is for a SUPER or typical action movie hero. If I was running a realistic heroic campaign, I wouldn't use it.

And a waste of points? How?

example...

No Range Modifier (+1/2) Naked Mod on up to 3d6 RKA (22 AP)

(-1/2) OIF Firearm of opportunity

(-1/2) Concentrate 0 DCV

(-3/4) Extra Phase

(-1/2) RSR: Power skill (Breath control... used for several other abilities)

Total limit (-2 1/4)

Real Cost: (22 AP/3.25)= 7 points.

 

Now my 23 DEX (8 OCV base) , +4 levels with Combat example character can, for 7 points, attack someone with his 12 OCV at the max range of any weapon he picks up, by taking a few seconds of his time to sight in, breathe, and then shoot.

Really powerful?

Yup.

Genre Apropriate?

Depends on the Genre.

Realistic?

Nope. IT'S A SUPERSKILL.

Overpriced?

no. Quite possibly too cheap for the effect. It does make him 0 DCV for 2 phases tho, so its not completly unbalancing.

Try putting him and your realistic sniper on opposing rooftops at 1500 yards and see who dies first... might be a fun excercise (I haven't done it yet)

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper?

 

Hmmm...

I think that if I ever get enough players interested in Champions again to revamp my villans in 5th, I'll give Recoil (my Deathstroke homage villan) this ability.

[Fox1]

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper?

 

Try putting him and your realistic sniper on opposing rooftops at 1500 yards and see who dies first... might be a fun excercise (I haven't done it yet)

 

Phase 12, you guy goes DCV 0 (concentrate) and take the first phase of his extra phase limit.

 

May guy braces, aims for chest (or 1d6+3 high shot, all that's good too against rifleman aiming my way), fires, hits on a 18- (didn't bother with the +1 OCV set).

 

You're dead or disabled. Have a nice day.

 

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper?

 

Phase 12, you guy goes DCV 0 (concentrate) and take the first phase of his extra phase limit.

 

May guy braces, aims for chest (or 1d6+3 high shot, all that's good too against rifleman aiming my way), fires, hits on a 18- (didn't bother with the +1 OCV set).

 

You're dead or disabled. Have a nice day.

 

Let me get this straight...you're babbling about point efficency, and "real" snipers taking hours for the perfect shot (which I realize the 0 DCV construct sets up nicely), then you don't bother having someone get under cover? And chest shots are rather likely to run into any body armor a target may be wearing.

Ahh bugger it...

I've answered the question for less than the cost of 4 RSL's with all rifles, gotten repped, and have a new construct I can use in my games.

And if you really wanna play the "I kill your guy" game, then I rewrite the power without the -1/2 concentrate limit...

Now it cost an even 8 POINTS

now my sniper gets full DCV, and can allocate his levels to defence.

have a nice day

[Fox1]

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper?

 

Let me get this straight...you're babbling about point efficency' date=' and "real" snipers taking hours for the perfect shot (which I realize the 0 DCV construct sets up nicely), then you don't bother having someone get under cover? [/quote']

 

Cover's a half move, since you're dead- there' no need to bring it up. But assume that I took it if you wish.

 

If you want to get your DCV back, fine. My guy will pick up a more modern weapon than the old sharps big fifty, like a M82. That will give me a solid above 50% hit chance even with a DCV 10 target. If I use the modifiers in DC (with their out of sight scope modifiers), it's even better than that.

 

So you also need to get rid of the extra phase, it's a killer. It means that you're aways going be receiving the first shot. First shot with a modern .50 call sniper weapon is death. Or should be with any rational real weapon.

 

In short, you have a cute build. But it's a foolish build. I'm giving you a solid contest and I've spend a bucket load of fewer points (15 less on DEX alone) and am doing it with a mere human. Give my guy equal superhuman DEX and combat skill levels and it would become even more apparent that it's a foolish build.

 

I think we're done here. You can do as you feel best.

 

You see the nice thing is that you don't have to exist in my campaign. Nor does every character have to done in the most efficient way. Sometimes cute is good if it's to your taste.

 

So seriously, have fun.

 

Oh, one more thing.

 

Don't forget that a sniper needs more than rifle skill. Get tons of concealment, excellent steath- and many perception levels.

 

And ideally- a follower to act as your spotter.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper?

 

AS tempted as I am to continue the "whos sniper has the bigger d**k" discussion, I see that its turning into a classic textbook case of geek social dominance aggression displays, so I will now smooth my ruffled feathers and withdraw (without even bothering to bust out FrED and run my own version of the fight.) Suffice to say, your 18 dex 6 skill level sniper is the best character possible, in these circumstances. I could drop the Extra Time down at the cost of another point...but who cares?

Mine happens to be better with a broader suite of weapons is all.

And BTW...

This example was for a fairly typical DC character...not me.

Me...I'm a pretty good shot, but I know my limitations, and without a benchrest and some serious fricking optics, I'd never hit someone at that range. And I suspect you can't either.

So lets give this a rest, shall we, and agree to disagree.

 

Hopefully all this squabbling has at least given the original poster a couple of ideas to work with.

And yeah... either style should have a fair number of levels with PER... That -16 range mod works for sight too, and most of your gear based range mod bonuses won't apply to that part.

[Fox1]

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper?

 

And yeah... either style should have a fair number of levels with PER... That -16 range mod works for sight too' date=' and most of your gear based range mod bonuses won't apply to that part.[/quote']

 

Scopes do give PER bonuses with range, but all the other skills I bought (and your no range mod super ability) won't help at all.

 

So it's a good idea to pile some points into sight PER enhancement. I've seen those guys pick stuff out of the clutter at range that I wouldn't see even if I was standing on it.

 

A follower is nice because he can carry the binoculars and have even higher PER bonuses than your primary character if desired allowing him to find your target and point you in the right direction. Worst case, it's two sets of eyes (and rolls). Also while you're focusing on the target, he's free to look around plus he also carries a rapid fire short range weapon in case you screw up and get jumped.

 

 

BTW, it's a rare game indeed that will actually allow a sniper to do his work. It's not actually much of an action/adventure sort of thing. It's lonely boring work until the trigger is pulled and then its all about evading and hiding. Not something I'd expect to see a lot of in an rpg.

 

Would be cool to see someone attempt it however.

[Lanith]

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper?

 

Please! For the love of God, let it go!

You've both given your opinions and, to put it nicely, you don't agree. I think the original post has been answered, rebutted and beaten to death.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper?

 

Nice to see this get back on track and civil (and just in case, when I mentioned "your" gear enhancement, at that point I wasn't talking about your example, but using "your" to refer to the characters gear). As I don't hacve DC yet I can't use the gear examples from in there, but if you're going off just the HERO rules, yourRange Mod for a telescopic sight only gives you a +2. Even a full telescope (in the perception mods section) only gives a +3. So additional levels are a must at extreme ranges.

A spotter would be good for a realistic millitary sniper, even if it defies the movie sterotype of the "lone" sniper. Which also brings up the point that you'd want to look at a somewhat different skill set for a purely urban sniper (like a SWAT sniper) who doesn't have to worry about escape and evasion, or underbrush and the like, but may have to act in a faster and/or less lethal manner. I'm thinking some lightning reflexs or dex levels to be able to beat any possible dex-off situations... you know, the "TAKE the shot NOW...he's about to kill the hostage!" kind of thing. That and I've watched footage of a SWAT sniper shooting the gun out of the hand of a perp while he was in mid gesture, and moving. Probably less Range levels (who needs them in an urban environment?) and more Targeting or straight up CSL's

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper?

 

Please! For the love of God, let it go!

You've both given your opinions and, to put it nicely, you don't agree. I think the original post has been answered, rebutted and beaten to death.

 

I like this thread, so I'm hoping to drag it back into a cool system discussion rather that a cock fight. I've already decided to let it drop in favor of continuing the discussion in the original spirit.

[Fox1]

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper?

 

As I don't hacve DC yet I can't use the gear examples from in there' date=' but if you're going off just the HERO rules, yourRange Mod for a telescopic sight only gives you a +2. Even a full telescope (in the perception mods section) only gives a +3. So additional levels are a must at extreme ranges.[/quote']

 

DC gives them unearthly bonuses. Something like +10 RMod just for a Reflex Sight. I forget the actual scope modifiers but they're in the same general area.

 

Silly if you ask me.

 

 

 

Which also brings up the point that you'd want to look at a somewhat different skill set for a purely urban sniper

 

I was thinking about that myself. They also work with entry teams more often, so that would likely have an impact as well- get Teamwork skill.

[JmOz]

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper?

 

For what it is worth:

 

Foe a super sniper

 

 

+12 vs Range Mods

+8 vs Targeting Mods (Ranged only)

 

OCV or 10 (Dex +CSL's)

 

You will make headshouts against normals, or even surprised super heroes (DCV 4 do to being halved) @ 1500 feet on a 17-

 

hmm, maybe I should do this for my archer...

[prestidigitator]

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper?

 

Since Naked Advantages have been brought into the mix, why not buy a naked No Range Modifier for your sight? Since sight doesn't technically have a maximum range in the system, we could literally see a flea on a dog's ass from all the way across the Galaxy (or Universe, for that matter).

 

Hey! I should post this to that thread about Mega Senses. Why use MegaScale at all?

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper?

 

Since Naked Advantages have been brought into the mix, why not buy a naked No Range Modifier for your sight? Since sight doesn't technically have a maximum range in the system, we could literally see a flea on a dog's ass from all the way across the Galaxy (or Universe, for that matter).

 

Hey! I should post this to that thread about Mega Senses. Why use MegaScale at all?

 

THAT, my friend, is a nice sneaky end run around the wierd Megasenses rules. I like it

[prestidigitator]

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper?

 

THAT' date=' my friend, is a nice sneaky end run around the wierd Megasenses rules. I like it [/quote']

Yeah. It just strikes me as a little too powerful. Should I put this one on the favorite abuse thread, too? I really kind of hope this is illegal in some way.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper?

 

Yeah. It just strikes me as a little too powerful. Should I put this one on the favorite abuse thread' date=' too? I really kind of hope this is illegal in some way.[/quote']

One the one hand, I totally agree with you.

On the other, the idea that you have to spend gobs of points on perception abilities just so you can USE the movement you've ALSO paid gobs of points on kind of irks me.

I'm so conflicted.

[Sean Waters]

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper?

 

My guy spend his points on a bit of megascale change environment: fog and you can't see each other at 1500 yards.

 

Get a room, guys.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper?

 

My guy spend his points on a bit of megascale change environment: fog and you can't see each other at 1500 yards.

 

Get a room, guys.

LOL

We're already over it

[Edsel]

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper?

 

Looks like my initial numbers were about right.

 

Of course, as Edsel might remember, Sera talks about hitting targets 4,500 meters/yards out with her 12.5mm "rifle" in one sequence in HELLSING.

 

Yeah, but when I look closely at that rifle in the manga it seems to read 13.7mm so I think it was one of Hellsing's custom guns.

[Susano]

Re: help! how do I build the super sniper?

 

Yeah' date=' but when I look closely at that rifle in the manga it seems to read 13.7mm so I think it was one of Hellsing's custom guns.[/quote']

 

Oh sure, I'm pretty positive that everything Seras fires is a custom weapon.