Mutant for Hire Posted April 27, 2003 Report Share Posted April 27, 2003 I thought I'd like to start a discussion thread on the sixth edition Champions Universe, to match the "what do we want" thread for the Sixth Edition HERO thread. What we'd like to see in the next edition. My main thought is to avoid having all of the HERO products shoved into a single timeline. It's a cute idea on some levels, but it doesn't make any sense on so many other levels. I don't think there's going to many GMs who will stop all superhero origins in time for Cyber HERO. It's much better to have multiple timelines where you have a much more smoother and logical progression for the universes. My main concept is that the CU needs to be split into two timelines, a superhero timeline and an SF timeline. The superhero timeline, ultimately would be along the lines of: Fantasy Champions Pulp Champions Golden Age Champions Silver Age Champions [bronze/Iron Age] Champions + Dark/Street Champions Reneagde Champions* Galactic Champions Renegade Champions is desgined to cover a dystopian Champions era, along the lines of Kingdom Come, Nightmares of Future's Past, all those cyberpunkish futures where heroes are often underground or working in a brutally repressive regieme or perhaps even both. It's essentailly the superhero counterpart to Cyber HERO. In time the brutal dictatorship is overthrown and things are opened up for Galactic Champions as everyone rebuilds and humans move out into space. Fantasy Champions covers the age of magic, from the ancient eras perhaps even back to pre-human eras all the way down to the low power age of medieval times. In practice it might be broken up into multiple sourcebooks (yeah, dream on) or might be a simple list of races and magic systems for various eras and an overall timeline. Pulp Champions would cover everything from post-medieval times up to the Golden Age. Victorian heroes (ala the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen) and heroes of previous eras (Zorro, the Scarlet Pimpernel, etc.). Incidentally, this frees up the Champions universe to have a nigh infinite range of alien races instead of having to have a fairly logical list of alien races like you find in SF universes. You don't have to cover the sudden arrival and dissappearance of superheroes. The Champions universe has a long tradition of costumed heroes, at least from the Pulp Champions era on. It's easier to have the Champions universe melt down into a dystopian dictatorship and for GMs to keep their characters intact from the current campaign on, if they so choose. Then there is the more hard SF timeline which starts out with modern espionage and proceeds along naturally through cyberpunk. Various organizations can be set up in the Danger International book which morph evolve into more sinister organizations in the cyberpunk universe and might continue evolving through the various books. Heroic rules, psionics would be the main addition, no magic. There would also be rules on tech levels and what happens when weapons from one era hit armor from another era. And there can even be a timeline to cover what tech gets introduced when so GMs can have a smooth progression between eras, or start their campaign at any point they like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted April 27, 2003 Report Share Posted April 27, 2003 No offense, Mutant for Hire, but when I read this, I could only think..."I had to wait 10 years for the 5th Ed, and he wants an update already? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!" Your ideas aren't bad, but the thing to remember is the HERO rules, and the various genre books are actually pretty fluid. There is a 'universe' officially, but we can certainly (and somewhat seem encouraged to) alter, use, and create our own using those books instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
death tribble Posted April 28, 2003 Report Share Posted April 28, 2003 I have had to change to D+D version 3 and Champions version 5 both within the last three years. I don't want to change systems again for a long while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klytus Posted April 28, 2003 Report Share Posted April 28, 2003 Originally posted by death tribble I have had to change to D+D version 3 and Champions version 5 both within the last three years. I don't want to change systems again for a long while. Pity, because D&D 3.5 will be out in a few short months... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BishopofB&W Posted April 28, 2003 Report Share Posted April 28, 2003 Originally posted by Klytus Pity, because D&D 3.5 will be out in a few short months... You don't scare me! I don't even play D&D! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Limmer Posted April 28, 2003 Report Share Posted April 28, 2003 Originally posted by Klytus Pity, because D&D 3.5 will be out in a few short months... I was going to say something about how the change from D&D 3 to D&D 3.5 wasn't enough to really warrant calling it a new edition, but then I realized that there may end up being more changes from D&D 3 to 3.5 than there were from HERO 4 to HERO 5... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Agenda Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 I personally like the idea of a Champions timeline distinct from Star Hero, et al. No varying chicken-or-egg relationship between magic and "scientific" powers. There are so many periods that lend themselves to superheroes in one form or another that you shouldn't have to give up (of course you don't HAVE to, but we're talking about source material) superheroes because its the wrong time period. Victorian superheroes may be "Extraordinary Gentlemen" with fewer points than Captain Ultra, but they fit like a glove into a superhero timeline. So do Arthur's knights, the Greek heroes, and so forth. I'm hoping the Valdorian Age and that other Fantasy Hero supplement whose name I can't recall will give plenty of room for a superhero option. If it's in the Champions timeline, it should have Champions. A straight fantasy setting doesn't need to be in a timeline that connects to a modern setting, IMHO. It makes sense that before modern technology and with fewer chemical/radiation triggering events that superhumans should be rarer, but not absent. I prefer this approach when I want to use the official timeline: supers exist, they've always existed, but they don't always have a high profile. For example, the Terran Empire has rumored Omega Psis, easily as powerful (maybe much more powerful) as Champions heroes, but rarely seen and many people have never heard of them. You can run a campaign in the Terran Empire setting without them ever being a factor if you want to. In my Terran Empire people with non-psi superpowers also exist with an even lower profile, but they are there if I ever want to trot them out. If they're on the same point level as the other characters I might even allow a person with beneficial mutations or other "science-based" super powers. I'm not sure about magic, but I've already divorced the science powers from magic, so maybe the magic level has gone down, or is even more underground (or lost) than science powers. Certainly a lack of magic hasn't slowed the published Terran Empire psis down much. I'm thinking of running a Champions game in the Terran Empire setting, as it is interesting and I don't want to wait a year for Galactic Champions. Conversions are a chore, but it's not like I'm trying to do Champions in Palladium's Rifts setting. THAT would be a REAL chore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hybris Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 Originally posted by Doug Limmer ... but then I realized that there may end up being more changes from D&D 3 to 3.5 than there were from HERO 4 to HERO 5... Could be. EN World keeps a list of changes in 3.5 that have been announced so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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