Returning to Champions

[Suicycho]

Hi. This is my first post on Hero's forums, so if this is a redundant question, please forgive me.

My gaming group and I are returning to champions after nearly a 10 year hiatus. My question is how compatible is 5'th edition stuff with the 4'th edition rules? Right now I just don't have the extra money to purchase the Hero 5'th edition for $50 as well as the champions supplements. I plan on purchasing the Champions supplements, but I want to stick with my 4'th edition core rule book. I does say in the foreward of the 5'th edition corebook that not much has changed from 4'th edition, it has just become more streamlined, so does this mean I can still use my 4'th ed. corebook without much converting?

 

Thanks for answering my question.

[Steve Long]

Re: Returning to Champions

 

Since this isn't really a rules question, I've moved it to the "Discussion" area so Herodom Assembled can offer its many and varied opinions.

[Mike W]

Re: Returning to Champions

 

Well, mechanics haven't really changed, except that Haymaker is now a +4DC attack rather than x 1 1/2. I personally use the 4th edition rule. You take too many penalties IMO to only get 4DC. And you have Multipower attacks which let you fire through several attacks at once as sort of a multiple power autofire.

 

The big change comes in the power and skill sets because there have been a few new skills(Rapid Attack for example), some of which can have a major impact. But more importantly is the concept of "adders" which was always there to begin with(think fine manipulation on Telekinesis) but the idea has been expanded a lot. Most base powers have stayed the same though, except Flash which now takes away segments and costs 5 points less per die and Shapeshift which just got hideously expensive.

 

That's about all I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure others will add a few things to the list.

[MitchellS]

Re: Returning to Champions

 

To add to what Mike W has said, there are several powers which have been changed in 5E as well. Aid, change environment, healing, shapeshift, multiform, stretching, instant change, life support, and several others operate a little differently in 5E. There have also been some changes in point totals and the elemental control power frameworks.

 

While the core combat rules are still the same [ocv, dcv, levels, speed, etc.] there are new combat maneuvers and concepts such as multiple-powers attacks. There's really a great deal which has been modified.

 

What you might want to do is try to find a copy of 5E [before the revision which I call 5Er] on eBay. I know that several people had 5E copies for sale relatively cheaply once 5Er was published. With 5E and the pdf faq you can have all the rules which are in 5Er anyway. If you can't find a copy on eBay let me know via private message. I'd be willing to part with my 5E for someone returning to the fold for a reasonable price.

[Ghost Archer]

Re: Returning to Champions

 

Suprised no one has mentioned Sidekick. Hey, for $7 for a PDF from our friends here at Hero, you can have all the rules you need to get back into the swing of things.

[Agent X]

Re: Returning to Champions

 

I dunno. If you are VERY familiar with 4th Edition, you might as well use the full 5th Edition book.

[MitchellS]

Re: Returning to Champions

 

Suprised no one has mentioned Sidekick. Hey' date=' for $7 for a PDF from our friends here at Hero, you can have all the rules you need to get back into the swing of things.[/quote']

I wasn't trying to avoid Sidekick, I just feel that you don't get a good feel for the difference between 4E and 5E from Sidekick. Too many powers/skills/talents/etc. were left out and some, like shapeshift being a sub-catetory of multiform, are just confusing to 4E people, IMO.

[RDU Neil]

Re: Returning to Champions

 

I'd just like to throw in that, depending on your play styel... there is nothing "incompatible" between 4th and 5th. I continue to play a hybrid of the two. 4.5 I call it. There would be little problem taking a 5th Edition villain and throwing her agains 4th Ed heroes... you might not understand a couple of the things on the sheet (or misinterpret them) but they'd be minor issues at best.

 

To this day, I've still not read Fred all the way through, nor do I own 5ER. I play the game I've known and loved since '81... and if a question comes up, THEN we look into Fred and say, "Ok... what is the new rule? Do we like it? Yes... ok, that's how it works now. No? Forget it, play like we always have."

 

Basically, we play with Fifth Edition as one big optional rules compendium. If you are very familiar with 4th, and want to ease into 5th... I recommend this.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Returning to Champions

 

Welcome back, Suicycho! This is a good time to be getting back into Champions - the support for the game, both from Hero Games and from the fan community, is far stronger than it's been in a lot of years.

 

As far as compatibility with Fourth Edition goes, I'd say that the new stuff is 80-90% compatible. The core mechanics haven't changed at all: Characteristic cost, combat rolls, Skill use, Martial Art construction, ratio of Damage Classes and END use to Active Points, Power Advantages and Limitations, Power Frameworks, character Disadvantages all work pretty much the same as before, so using characters from 4E in 5E, or vice versa, is pretty easy.

 

There are lots of minor changes, like the costs of certain Powers or specifics of how they work in particular circumstances, and a few significant changes. For the most part the difference is in the details: lots of clarifications of what used to be grey areas in the rules, and many new options to let you fine-tune your characters.

 

You'll get a good idea of what the changes between editions amount to from this webpage: http://theemerged.blogspot.com/HERO425.htm