No Turn Mode vs Movement Skill Levels

[Bloodstone]

Turn Mode = Distance Traveled this Phase/5.

 

No turn mode is a +1/4 advantage that sets your turn mode to 0" at all times.

 

Movement Skill Levels for Flight cost 2pt each and reduce your Turn Mode on a 1:1 basis, to a minimum of 0". They have additional benefits, such as bonuses for landing or GM optional DCV or acceleration/deceleration bonuses.

 

So, if you have 5" of flight, geting a 0" Turn Mode will cost you 2 pts either way. If, by contrast, you have 30" of flight, getting a 0" Turn Mode will cost you 15pts with the No Turn Mode advantage. It will only cost you 12pts if you instead buy 6 Movement Skill levels.

 

Am I missing something or is No Turn Mode not worth the points in most cases?

[Guest C--]

Re: No Turn Mode vs Movement Skill Levels

 

Well, the advantaged power can go in a power framework. The skill levels can't.

[Dust Raven]

Re: No Turn Mode vs Movement Skill Levels

 

With the Advantage, the Movement has no turn mode at all. It has complete freedom of movement. When using Levels to reduce turn mode, the vehicle still has a turn mode, but one of 0", and is still limited to 5 60 degree turns per Phase.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: No Turn Mode vs Movement Skill Levels

 

Also, "No Turn Mode" would still apply when moving noncombat. In your example that would require 12 Skill Levels at minimum.

[Dust Raven]

Re: No Turn Mode vs Movement Skill Levels

 

Also' date=' "No Turn Mode" would still apply when moving noncombat. In your example that would require 12 Skill Levels at minimum.[/quote']

 

I thought you were still limited to 5 turns when moving noncombat... is it 12?

[Captain Obvious]

Re: No Turn Mode vs Movement Skill Levels

 

I thought it was 2 turns non-combat....

[Lord Liaden]

Re: No Turn Mode vs Movement Skill Levels

 

I thought you were still limited to 5 turns when moving noncombat... is it 12?

 

 

I thought it was 2 turns non-combat....

 

Captain Obvious has the right of it. Sorry for the confusion; I wasn't talking about number of times you turn, but distance travelled. In Bloodstone's initial example, a character with 30" of Flight would have a Turn Mode of 6 (having to travel 6" before he could make a second turn) travelling at combat speed. He'd therefore need 6 Movement Skill Levels (12 Character Points) to reduce his turn mode to 0. If he changed to noncombat speed he'd be travelling twice as fast, so he'd need twice as many MSL to reduce his Turn Mode to 0. The ratio increases exponentially if you start applying the Non-Combat Multiplier Adder.

 

OTOH the No Turn Mode Advantage applies whatever velocity you're making. Note, however, that NTM is a "Yield" Sign Advantage, potentially unbalancing if not used carefully.

[Dust Raven]

Re: No Turn Mode vs Movement Skill Levels

 

Captain Obvious has the right of it. Sorry for the confusion; I wasn't talking about number of times you turn, but distance travelled. In Bloodstone's initial example, a character with 30" of Flight would have a Turn Mode of 6 (having to travel 6" before he could make a second turn) travelling at combat speed. He'd therefore need 6 Movement Skill Levels (12 Character Points) to reduce his turn mode to 0. If he changed to noncombat speed he'd be travelling twice as fast, so he'd need twice as many MSL to reduce his Turn Mode to 0. The ratio increases exponentially if you start applying the Non-Combat Multiplier Adder.

 

OTOH the No Turn Mode Advantage applies whatever velocity you're making. Note, however, that NTM is a "Yield" Sign Advantage, potentially unbalancing if not used carefully.

 

I'm still not getting the twice as fast needs twice the MSLs. If you have at best 2 turns, you'll have a turn mode of 30 when traveling noncombat, and need 30 levels to reduce it to zero. Or am I still mixed up?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: No Turn Mode vs Movement Skill Levels

 

I'm still not getting the twice as fast needs twice the MSLs. If you have at best 2 turns' date=' you'll have a turn mode of 30 when traveling noncombat, and need 30 levels to reduce it to zero. Or am I still mixed up?[/quote']

 

Well, the forumula (on FREd p. 240) is, Current Turn Mode = Total Flight Distance/5. On p. 243 under Movement Skill Levels, it says, "If the character has any Skill Levels which apply to a particular type of movement, they have several uses. First, he can use each Level to lower his Turn Mode by 1."

 

As I interpret it (and of course I could be wrong), if the character in Bloodstone's example has 30" of Flight and is using it at full power, his Turn Mode would be 6, meaning that he cannot make one turn after the first one until he moves at least 6". So, reducing it to 0 would require 6 MSL for 12 Character Points. If he switches to noncombat movement he'd have twice the velocity, or 60", which would work out to a Turn Mode of 12. Reducing Turn Mode to 0 in this case would require 12 MSL rather than 6, irregardless of how many evenly spaced turns he's allowed to make under those circumstances.

 

Now if someone can show me a rule clarification that says that the multiplier for non-combat movement has no effect on calculating the Turn Mode, or that my understanding of Turn Mode is inaccurate, I will of course acknowledge my mistake.

[Dust Raven]

Re: No Turn Mode vs Movement Skill Levels

 

Okay, I get what you're saying. And I double checked the book (5E). Even though you can only make two turns at noncombat, your turn mode is still figured by total inches divided by 5. So yes, you'd need 12 levels applicable to that Movement Power to reduce the turn mode in the above example to 0.

[prestidigitator]

Re: No Turn Mode vs Movement Skill Levels

 

Okay' date=' I get what you're saying. And I double checked the book (5E). Even though you can only make two turns at noncombat, your turn mode is still figured by total inches divided by 5. So yes, you'd need 12 levels applicable to that Movement Power to reduce the turn mode in the above example to 0.[/quote']

Err, you sure? I'm almost positive your Turn Mode for Noncombat Movement is your velocity over two (reduced by the same amount as your number of turns, for the number of turns is really just a matter of how often you can make a turn).

 

I'm actually in favor of a velocity-based Turn Mode for all movement, with Movement Levels decreasing it (possibly all the way to No Turn Mode if you have enough), and no, "No Turn Mode," Advantage. I had another thread on that a while back....

[Dust Raven]

Re: No Turn Mode vs Movement Skill Levels

 

Err' date=' you sure? I'm almost positive your Turn Mode for Noncombat Movement is your velocity over two (reduced by the same amount as your number of turns, for the number of turns is really just a matter of how often you can make a turn).[/quote']

 

That's the way it reads. Just the one formula given for turn mode, and the only change mentioned for noncombat movement is 2 turns instead of 5 and nothing about the change in turn mode. 5ER might clarify though, but I don't have it.