Berserker Rage Buildup

[Icel]

I'm working on conversion of character from my home-system to HERO, and I need help with some powers buildup.

 

Berserker Rage is supposed to be one power that gives the character extra defenses and attack power. i.e. You get Damage Resistance, Damage Reduction, Knockback Resistance, Mental Defense and Power Defense, along with +X CSL with attacks.

Yes, this is very powerfull- but it also only on when the character is Enraged, in drains END every phase and have Side Effects- you are knocked unconscious after the rage is over.

 

I tryed to built it with a compound power. with little success. Can the powers be Linked together?

 

Idea, anyone?

[MitchellS]

Re: Berserker Rage Buildup

 

I don't see why you can't build this as a compound power [and I'm assuming you mean in Hero Designer]. I'd probably put linked on each power as it can only be used together, never separately.

[Icel]

Re: Berserker Rage Buildup

 

I don't see why you can't build this as a compound power [and I'm assuming you mean in Hero Designer]. I'd probably put linked on each power as it can only be used together' date=' never separately.[/quote']

Ok. How much do you think that "only when enraged" limitation should cost?

[MitchellS]

Re: Berserker Rage Buildup

 

It depends on how often the character goes enraged. You might just want to use the Enrage roll as the same value as an activation roll: 14-: -1/2, 11-: -1, 8-: -2. I would probably only make it -1/2 as I have issues with a disadvantage being beneficial to a character.

[Icel]

Re: Berserker Rage Buildup

 

This is what I came up with:

 

Berserker Rage: (Total: 150 Active Cost, 71 Real Cost) Physical Damage Reduction, 75% (40 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Knocked Unconscious After The Rage Is Over; -1), Limited Power Only Work When Enraged (-1/2), Costs Endurance (-1/2) (Real Cost: 13) plus +5 with All Combat (40 Active Points); Costs Endurance (-1/2), Linked (Power Defense; -1/4) (Real Cost: 23) plus Knockback Resistance -10" (20 Active Points); Costs Endurance (-1/2), Linked (Damage Reduction; -1/2) (Real Cost: 10) plus +10 Mental Defense (12 points total) (10 Active Points); Costs Endurance (-1/2), Linked (Damage Reduction; -1/2) (Real Cost: 5) plus Power Defense (10 points) (10 Active Points); Costs Endurance (-1/2), Linked (Knockback Resistance; -1/2) (Real Cost: 5) plus Mental Damage Reduction, 50% (30 Active Points); Costs Endurance (-1/2), Linked (Damage Reduction; -1/2) (Real Cost: 15)

 

I thought that if they are all linked I only need to bay "Only Work When Enraged" and "Knocked Unconscious After The Rage Is Over" for the first effect.

I may have overdone it- the power cost 15 END for phase...

[Captain Obvious]

Re: Berserker Rage Buildup

 

It's not like you need to buy them with the extra limitations, but the limitations apply, so you'd be better off taking them that way.

 

If you want to drop your END cost, though, you can drop the Costs END limitations from a few of your linked powers.

[MitchellS]

Re: Berserker Rage Buildup

 

Just some thoughts:

 

I would give the side effect to all the powers, as they are really only one power.

 

I'd also put the -1/4 linked on the damage reduction to show that it can't be used alone.

 

I'd either drop the costs end on all the powers and only have it on the damage reduction, or buy all the powers with costs end [maybe even x2 end] only to activate instead.

[Icel]

Re: Berserker Rage Buildup

 

Edited Version:

 

Berserker Rage: (Total: 150 Active Cost, 48 Real Cost) Physical Damage Reduction, 75% (40 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Knocked Unconscious After The Rage Is Over; -1), Limited Power Only Work When Enraged (-1/2), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2), Linked (Knockback Resistance; -1/4) (Real Cost: 11) plus +5 with All Combat (40 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Knocked Unconscious After The Rage Is Over; -1), Limited Power Only Work When Enraged (-1/2), Linked (Power Defense; -1/4) (Real Cost: 14) plus Knockback Resistance -10" (20 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Knocked Unconscious After The Rage Is Over; -1), Linked (Damage Reduction; -1/2), Limited Power Only Work When Enraged (-1/2) (Real Cost: 7) plus +10 Mental Defense (12 points total) (10 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Knocked Unconscious After The Rage Is Over; -1), Linked (Damage Reduction; -1/2), Limited Power Only Work When Enraged (-1/2) (Real Cost: 3) plus Power Defense (10 points) (10 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Knocked Unconscious After The Rage Is Over; -1), Linked (Knockback Resistance; -1/2), Limited Power Only Work When Enraged (-1/2) (Real Cost: 3) plus Mental Damage Reduction, 50% (30 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Knocked Unconscious After The Rage Is Over; -1), Linked (Damage Reduction; -1/2), Limited Power Only Work When Enraged (-1/2) (Real Cost: 10).

 

Now it cost 8 END per phase, which I think is reasonable (the power should be strained for the user).

[Icel]

Re: Berserker Rage Buildup

 

Now that we got this over with, can you guys have a look at some other powers? I think the first one is highly illegal...

 

Exalted Commander: Multipower, 40-point reserve, all slots Usable Simultaneously (up to 8 people at once; +1) (80 Active Points); all slots Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2).

1u- Army March: Running +3" (9" total) (6 Active Points); Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2).

2u- Defensive Formation: +5 with DCV (25 Active Points); Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2).

2u- War Song: Luck 5d6 (25 Active Points); Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2).

3u- Offensive Formation: +5 with HTH Combat (25 Active Points); Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2).

3u- Heroic Inspiration: +5 with All Combat (40 Active Points); Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2).

 

Man of God: Multipower, 50-point reserve, (50 Active Points); all slots Only When Serving The God's Purposes (-1/2), Requires A Religion Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 20 Active Points; -1/4).

1u- Symbol of Faith: +25 PRE (25 Active Points); Limited Power Only vs. Enemies of Faith (-1), OIF Fragile (Holy Symbol; -3/4), Limited Power Only To Make PRE Attacks (-1/2), Only When Serving The God's Purposes (-1/2), Requires A Religion Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 20 Active Points; -1/4).

1u- Divine Protection: Power Defense (5 points) (5 Active Points); Only When Serving The God's Purposes (-1/2), Requires A Religion Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 20 Active Points; -1/4).

3u- Sacred Presence: Change Environment 2" radius, -2 to Hearing Group PER Rolls, -2 to Sight Group PER Rolls, -2 DCV, -2 OCV, -2" Running, Multiple Combat Effects (50 Active Points); Only When Serving The God's Purposes (-1/2), Requires A Religion Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 20 Active Points; -1/4).

2u- Divine Touch: Healing BODY 4d6, Can Heal Limbs (45 Active Points); Only When Serving The God's Purposes (-1/2), Does Not Work On Some Damage One Type of Damage (Unholy Damage; -1/4), Requires A Religion Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 20 Active Points; -1/4).

1u- Holy Zeal: +2 Overall (20 Active Points); Only When Serving The God's Purposes (-1/2), Requires A Religion Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 20 Active Points; -1/4).

[Silbeg]

Re: Berserker Rage Buildup

 

Now that we got this over with, can you guys have a look at some other powers? I think the first one is highly illegal...

 

Exalted Commander: Multipower, 40-point reserve, all slots Usable Simultaneously (up to 8 people at once; +1) (80 Active Points); all slots Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2).

1u- Army March: Running +3" (9" total) (6 Active Points); Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2).

2u- Defensive Formation: +5 with DCV (25 Active Points); Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2).

2u- War Song: Luck 5d6 (25 Active Points); Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2).

3u- Offensive Formation: +5 with HTH Combat (25 Active Points); Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2).

3u- Heroic Inspiration: +5 with All Combat (40 Active Points); Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2).

 

There are a couple of problems that I have with this construct. First, the advantage is applied to the whole MP, while it should be applied to each slot (and the MP reserve should be large enough to cover the enhanced slots). Second, incantations will be required for the recipients of the powers, as UBO gives full control (and cost) of the power to the recipients.

 

Perhaps a better construct would be as follows:

40	Exalted Commander: Multipower, 40-point reserve
1u	1) Army March: Running 3" (6 Active Points)	1
2u	2) Defensive Formation: +5 with DCV (25 Active Points)
2u	3) War Song: Luck 5d6 (25 Active Points)	0
4u	4) Heroic Inspiration: +5 with All Combat (40 Active Points)
27	Exalted Commander: Usable Simultaneously (up to 8 people at once; +1) for up to 40 Active Points of Exalted Commander Slots (40 Active Points); Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2)	4

With this one, you get the same MP, but without limitations. Then, if the commander chooses, he can "spread the wealth" by incanting with the Naked Modifier, which also has the END cost (his chanting is an exertion).

 

This would probably be a more "balanced" power, I believe. Another way to do it might be to make the naked modifier more like this:

 

53	Exalted Commander: Usable As Attack (+1), Area Of Effect (up to 4" Radius; +1) for up to 40 Active Points of Exalted Commander Slots (80 Active Points); Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2)	8

This would give him the ability to "inspire" group (not by counting). Granted, the END cost is much higher (may have to reduce this in a heroic game!)

 

 

The second power looks pretty straightforward...

[Ndreare]

Re: Berserker Rage Buildup

 

Have you thaught about buying a base power for all these and then adding a Succor/Aid that is trigered by rage? Then the character could get more and more powerful as he stays enraged longer.

 

I would put a -1/4 only in hero ID on the base powers to represent that they only get used while enraged.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Berserker Rage Buildup

 

There are a couple of problems that I have with this construct. First' date=' the advantage is applied to the whole MP, while it should be applied to each slot (and the MP reserve should be large enough to cover the enhanced slots). [/quote']

 

Actually, it is legal to put Advantages on the Reserve of a MP and have that Advantage apply to all the slots. It's a very convenient design option, and I use it a lot.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Berserker Rage Buildup

 

Icel: in regards to the Exalted Commander MP, some thoughts:

 

You might want to check out the section in Fantasy HERO discussing the application of AoE to various Powers that are not actually Attacks as a more convenient method of extending buffs to teammates rather than using UBO. It's a much more direct means of accomplishing what your Exalted Commander construct is trying to do.

[Silbeg]

Re: Berserker Rage Buildup

 

Actually' date=' it is legal to put Advantages on the Reserve of a MP and have that Advantage apply to all the slots. It's a very convenient design option, and I use it a lot.[/quote']

 

Legal, yes. I don't believe that I said that it wasn't... in the MP discussion in 5E (and I assume 5ER), it suggests that in most cases the advantages be added to the slots, not the reserve. It is a pretty kludgy construct to put it on the reserve, but remains, I believe, primarily for when you are adding more than 16 charges to a slot.

 

At least that is my opinion.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Berserker Rage Buildup

 

Legal, yes. I don't believe that I said that it wasn't... in the MP discussion in 5E (and I assume 5ER), it suggests that in most cases the advantages be added to the slots, not the reserve. It is a pretty kludgy construct to put it on the reserve, but remains, I believe, primarily for when you are adding more than 16 charges to a slot.

 

At least that is my opinion.

 

I dont find it cludgy at all; on the contrary I find it to be very elegant.

 

Lets say you have a MP where all of the powers are Uncontrolled. I find it more convenient to build it like:

 

MP 60 Reserve; Uncontrolled (+1/2)

Slot 1: 12d6 EB

Slot 2: 9d6 EB No Range Penalty (+1/2)

Slot 3: 4d6 RKA

 

 

rather than as:

 

MP 90 Reserve

Slot 1: 12d6 EB; Uncontrolled (+1/2)

Slot 2: 9d6 EB; Uncontrolled (+1/2), No Range Penalty (+1/2)

Slot 3: 4d6 RKA; Uncontrolled (+1/2)

 

 

But to each his own.

[Icel]

Re: Berserker Rage Buildup

 

Icel: in regards to the Exalted Commander MP, some thoughts:

 

You might want to check out the section in Fantasy HERO discussing the application of AoE to various Powers that are not actually Attacks as a more convenient method of extending buffs to teammates rather than using UBO. It's a much more direct means of accomplishing what your Exalted Commander construct is trying to do.

I don't have Fantasy HERO, but this is a nice idea... I would work on that.

 

Thanks for all of your replays, after I'll give it some thought, I'll post the edited power.

 

Edit: Stupid me! I got the worng quote!

[Icel]

Re: Berserker Rage Buildup

 

Have you thaught about buying a base power for all these and then adding a Succor/Aid that is trigered by rage? Then the character could get more and more powerful as he stays enraged longer.

 

I would put a -1/4 only in hero ID on the base powers to represent that they only get used while enraged.

I didn't quite understand what you ment, can you try explaining it to me again? maybe with an example?

 

Now, back to the Exalted Commander stuff, I didn't manage to put AoE on the MP because HD says that AoE can only be applied to powers that affect others. Even if I tryed to put Usable as Attack on the MP, it still diodn't let me use AoE.

So, a Naked Modifier was me only option.

The MP is:

Exalted Commander: Multipower, 40-point reserve.

and the NM is:

Exalted Commander: Area Of Effect (up to 4" Radius; +1); Incantations (Requires Incantations throughout; -1/2) for up to 40 Active Points of Exalted Commander Slots (27 Active Points).

 

Legal? Or should I add "Usable as Attack"?

[Black Rose]

Re: Berserker Rage Buildup

 

I didn't quite understand what you ment' date=' can you try explaining it to me again? maybe with an example?[/quote']

 

Okay, going from your "edited" Berserker Rage, which is:

 

Berserker Rage: (Total: 150 Active Cost, 48 Real Cost) Physical Damage Reduction, 75% (40 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Knocked Unconscious After The Rage Is Over; -1), Limited Power Only Work When Enraged (-1/2), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2), Linked (Knockback Resistance; -1/4) (Real Cost: 11) plus +5 with All Combat (40 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Knocked Unconscious After The Rage Is Over; -1), Limited Power Only Work When Enraged (-1/2), Linked (Power Defense; -1/4) (Real Cost: 14) plus Knockback Resistance -10" (20 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Knocked Unconscious After The Rage Is Over; -1), Linked (Damage Reduction; -1/2), Limited Power Only Work When Enraged (-1/2) (Real Cost: 7) plus +10 Mental Defense (12 points total) (10 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Knocked Unconscious After The Rage Is Over; -1), Linked (Damage Reduction; -1/2), Limited Power Only Work When Enraged (-1/2) (Real Cost: 3) plus Power Defense (10 points) (10 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Knocked Unconscious After The Rage Is Over; -1), Linked (Knockback Resistance; -1/2), Limited Power Only Work When Enraged (-1/2) (Real Cost: 3) plus Mental Damage Reduction, 50% (30 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Knocked Unconscious After The Rage Is Over; -1), Linked (Damage Reduction; -1/2), Limited Power Only Work When Enraged (-1/2) (Real Cost: 10).

 

Let's try:

 

Aid 3d6, Can Add Maximum Of 30 Points, All Rage Powers simultaneously (+1) (72 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (knocked unconscious after The Rage is over; -1), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Increased Endurance Cost (x2 END; -1/2), Only works when Enraged (-1/2) (Real Cost: 21) (END Cost: 14)

 

Physical Damage Reduction, 25% (10 Active Points); Only works when Enraged (-1/2) (Real Cost: 7)

 

Mental Damage Reduction, 25% (10 Active Points); Only works when Enraged (-1/2) (Real Cost: 7)

 

Knockback Resistance -1" (2 Active Points); Only works when Enraged (-1/2), Can only be Aided to a max of +10" (-1/2) (Real Cost: 1)

 

Mental Defense (5 points total) (3 Active Points); Only works when Enraged (-1/2), Can only be Aided to a max of +10 over base (-1/2) (Real Cost: 1)

 

Power Defense (2 points) (2 Active Points); Only works when Enraged (-1/2), Can only be Aided to a max of +10 (-1/2) (Real Cost: 1)

 

+1 with All Combat (8 Active Points); Only works when Enraged (-1/2), Can only be Aided to a max of +5 (-1/2) (Real Cost: 4)

 

Now, with this, you're gonna spend about 28 END to get your defenses to max, and another 14 every Turn, more than adequate to take you down in about a minute, even if the Side Effect doesn't. If the END cost is too high, try:

 

Aid 3d6, Can Add Maximum Of 30 Points, All Rage Powers simultaneously (+1) (72 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (knocked unconscious after The Rage is over; -1), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Only works when Enraged (-1/2) (Real Cost: 24) (END Cost: 7)

 

Not that this is necessarily how I'd suggest doing it. But if you wanted the powers to "fade in", this would replicate it. Of course, so would throwing a limitation that said the powers started at the minimum and reached their max in one Turn.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Berserker Rage Buildup

 

Also, if youre shopping around for various ways to do this, I list several means of doing a "Berserker Rage" here:

 

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Conversion3e/Class3e/Barbarians.shtml

[Icel]

Re: Berserker Rage Buildup

 

Black Rose, Thats sounds good, I'll try it.

 

Killer Shrike, I'm familiar with this site. I'll try and see if there is something there that I can use.

 

Thank you both.