Willing Targets & DCV

[NotSoSuperman]

I've been flipping through 5ER and haven't been able to find anything substantive on Willing Targets. How is it handled in combat? Do willing targets drop their DCV to 0 or something similar? If so, is it reduced for everyone targeting him (i.e. enemies), or just for the individual who's targeting him with the beneficial "attack"? If you happen to know where I can find this covered in the book, a page reference would be appreciated. Thanks guys!

[Dust Raven]

Re: Willing Targets & DCV

 

I don't think there is anything official, but I handle it depending on the type of attack. For the most part, any character can reduce their DCV to 0 to help a friend hit them, but it affects everyone. Grabbing a friend, or tossing something to them (not at them) I don't even consider an attack unless the target is unwilling.

 

Actually, technically, you can define an attack like that. It's only an attack if the target is unwilling. That way, "attacking" a willing target is automatic, doesn't require an Attac Roll and the target maintains his full CV, though it will still use up an Attack Action. I'm not sure how unbalanced such a thing will be though.

[Citizen Keen]

Re: Willing Targets & DCV

 

If the character wants to drop their DCV so that a friend can hit them, I handle it one of two ways.

 

If they don't care if they're hit by anyone else, I let them drop their total DCV to 3 - the DCV needed to hit a hex.

 

If they do care if they're hit by someone and they want to lower their DCV for a specific attack, then I play it as such. The "attacker" makes an attack roll against their DCV. If he hits, he hits. If he misses, the "defender" gets to roll a Block to purposefully get in the way.

 

-cK

[NotSoSuperman]

Re: Willing Targets & DCV

 

Cool. Thanks for the suggestions.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Willing Targets & DCV

 

If the character wants to drop their DCV so that a friend can hit them, I handle it one of two ways.

 

If they don't care if they're hit by anyone else, I let them drop their total DCV to 3 - the DCV needed to hit a hex.

 

If they do care if they're hit by someone and they want to lower their DCV for a specific attack, then I play it as such. The "attacker" makes an attack roll against their DCV. If he hits, he hits. If he misses, the "defender" gets to roll a Block to purposefully get in the way.

 

-cK

I hadn't thought about it, but this does kind of raise the question...

Why is it easier to hit a suprised out of combat person than the hex that suprised person is standing in?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Willing Targets & DCV

 

I hadn't thought about it, but this does kind of raise the question...

Why is it easier to hit a suprised out of combat person than the hex that suprised person is standing in?

Probably the same reason that some NBA players can hit jump shots near the 3 point line more easily than they can hit Free Throws.

 

HM

[Dust Raven]

Re: Willing Targets & DCV

 

I always though it was because the surprised out of combat person was standing up (typically), and presents a better target. Only an adjecent hex is easier to hit.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Willing Targets & DCV

 

If they don't care if they're hit by anyone else' date=' I let them drop their total DCV to 3 - the DCV needed to hit a hex.[/quote']

 

I once ran a 5 DEX Brick who would be very much in favour of this rule. In fact, he'd probably do this every phase just in case someone wanted to help him

 

Of course, the difference between 2 DCV and 3DCV is pretty minimal anyway...

[prestidigitator]

Re: Willing Targets & DCV

 

I've always ruled this by the seat of my pants, but here are my typical rules.

 

If a you are currently engaged in hand-to-hand combat (that is, you were attacked by an opponents who is currently within reach on that opponent's last Phase, or such an opponent has a held action and could attack immediately), you can't quit evading to allow a friend to, "attack," you without leaving yourself open to, "immediate," unfriendly attack (your DCV is lowered identically for friends and for those with whom you are engaged). However, I don't require allies to make an attack roll if you choose to at least halve your own DCV for this purpose. Note that you can reduce your DCV in whatever fashion you wish--you can take a flat penalty, halve it, or even go to 0 DCV.

 

If you aren't engaged in hand-to-hand combat, you may allow an ally to hit you with a hand-to-hand, "attack" (or ranged attack if no more than one hex away), without an actual attack roll, and you will still be at full DCV against opponents.

 

My rule for ranged attacks is a little different. If a you wish to lower your DCV for an ally's ranged attack (while more than one hex away), you are always lowering your DCV identically for other ranged attacks (but not hand-to-hand because if an opponent has, "time," to move up, that gives you, "time," to raise your DCV). This means that if you want an ally to hit you with a ranged attack, you had better have cover vs. other ranged opponents or be pretty sure that they somehow aren't going to be interested or able to attack you before your next Phase.

 

If you at least halve your DCV for an ally's ranged, "attack," they don't have to make an attack roll as long as they currently have no Range Penalty.

 

If you are Stunned, I always make allies attack you just like opponents because you are too disoriented to really allow them to hit you. If you are Knocked Out, I just make you 0 DCV vs. hand-to-hand and one-hex-away ranged attacks, and 3 DCV vs. other ranged attacks. This is both for allies and foes.

 

EDIT: BTW, I make lowering your DCV in any fashion a Free Action (as in, executable at any time without an Abort, just like a Presence Attack), but raising it back to a normal value is a Zero-Phase Action (meaning you can only do it on your Phase or if you Abort).

[Dust Raven]

Re: Willing Targets & DCV

 

Another consideration is genre. Helping a friend in combat would have different guidelines from a fantasy game, to a superhero game, to a swashbuckling/2 Musketeers game, to a hard SF game. Realisticlly, it's hard to help someone out if they are trying to avoid being hurt and are able to do so ("hold still, Bob so I can give you the stimulant" "Sure, just as soon as those bozos stop shooting at me"). In a more romantic setting, such as swashbuclking and superhero games, it's often quite easy.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Willing Targets & DCV

 

Another consideration is genre. Helping a friend in combat would have different guidelines from a fantasy game' date=' to a superhero game, to a swashbuckling/2 Musketeers game, to a hard SF game. Realisticlly, it's hard to help someone out if they are trying to avoid being hurt and are able to do so ("hold still, Bob so I can give you the stimulant" "Sure, just as soon as those bozos stop shooting at me"). In a more romantic setting, such as swashbuclking and superhero games, it's often quite easy.[/quote']

Probably true. In a superheroic Champions-style game, I would probably let you allow friendly attacks (or those you perceive as friendly, anyway) to hit you without an attack roll at no penalty.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Willing Targets & DCV

 

On a related note, if character A attacks character B and character C decides to Block by getting in the way, would you allow character A to agree to the change and hit character C without any rolls being made at all (by either A or C)? I probably would.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Willing Targets & DCV

 

On a related note' date=' if character A attacks character B and character C decides to Block by getting in the way, would you allow character A to agree to the change and hit character C without any rolls being made at all (by either A or C)? I probably would.[/quote']

 

Against a HTH attack, I allow a character perform a Block against any attack aimed at himself or an adjacent target, so long as attacker and target are both adjacent to him. If the attack isn't aimed at him, he takes a -2 OCV Penalty (non cumulative, but in addition to any other penalties from successive Blocks). The attacker cannot change targets: if the Block is successful, it doesn't matter, if the Block is unsuccessful, it also doesn't matter because the attacker can continue with his declared attack. At best, the attacker can abort the attack and not attack at all.

 

I also allow a character to either Block or Missile Deflect (is possible) when they Dive For Cover to take a hit for someone else. If the DFC is successful, but the Block/Deflection is not, they still get hit with the attack and the attack never has a say in it.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Willing Targets & DCV

 

Against a HTH attack, I allow a character perform a Block against any attack aimed at himself or an adjacent target, so long as attacker and target are both adjacent to him. If the attack isn't aimed at him, he takes a -2 OCV Penalty (non cumulative, but in addition to any other penalties from successive Blocks). The attacker cannot change targets: if the Block is successful, it doesn't matter, if the Block is unsuccessful, it also doesn't matter because the attacker can continue with his declared attack. At best, the attacker can abort the attack and not attack at all.

 

I also allow a character to either Block or Missile Deflect (is possible) when they Dive For Cover to take a hit for someone else. If the DFC is successful, but the Block/Deflection is not, they still get hit with the attack and the attack never has a say in it.

Oh. I'm sorry! Actually I meant Dive for Cover.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Willing Targets & DCV

 

Oh. I'm sorry! Actually I meant Dive for Cover.

 

Ah.

 

So, A (for attacker) attacks B (for... um... blockhead?), and C (for catcher) decides to DFC to take the hit. You are asking if A can instead attack C before C has made his roll for DFC? I would say no. I only allow a character to change what they are doing if they abort, and you can only abort to a defensive action (or to do nothing if you were about to do something other then defend, but the action is still lost). To me, switching targets would be like A attacking B and have B try to Missile Deflect, so A switches to C before B can make his roll. I think we'd all agree that wasn't fair, and I don't see any reason to make a special case just because C was the one making the rolls.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Willing Targets & DCV

 

Ah.

 

So, A (for attacker) attacks B (for... um... blockhead?), and C (for catcher) decides to DFC to take the hit. You are asking if A can instead attack C before C has made his roll for DFC? I would say no. I only allow a character to change what they are doing if they abort, and you can only abort to a defensive action (or to do nothing if you were about to do something other then defend, but the action is still lost). To me, switching targets would be like A attacking B and have B try to Missile Deflect, so A switches to C before B can make his roll. I think we'd all agree that wasn't fair, and I don't see any reason to make a special case just because C was the one making the rolls.

Hmm. I wasn't really thinking of it as a special case based on C making the rolls. I was thinking of it more in terms of the fact that C is basically trying to get hit. In a sense he is saying, "Say there A. I was wondering if you just wouldn't mind sending that attack over my way instead of hitting that poor chap over there. I'll be a good bloke for ya and get hit on purpose." So A says, "Oh! All right C. No problem. I'll go ahead and let you stand in for B, the poor fellow. [Especially since you are going through all the trouble to get yourself all lined up with my shot; I don't even have to bother to re-aim.] What a decent bloke you are to stand there and get hit for him!" It would be a kind of agreement between the opponents, in a similar fashion to the agreement between allies for one to use a beneficial Power on the other without requiring a (full) attack roll.