Introducing player to the HERO System

[prestidigitator]

Re: Introducing player to the HERO System

 

prestidigitator, there is a reason I don't want to just convert D&D characters to HERO- D&D is a very limiting system, while the basic strength of HERO is the limitless option of character creation, and that is what I want them to see. So even when I creat my stereotype characters I don't take abilities from D&D.

 

Roy_The_Ruthles, those are some good suggestions. I didn't ment to let them use the book anyway, it won't be of any use to them, who haven't read it and don't know whats inside. 0+50 seems way to little, as we all love "cool" characters and action like in the movies.

As I said before, I'm writing a couple of characters to present them with the HERO character creation concept and to speed thing up, but I don't want those characters to be too similar to D&D classes, as mentioned above.

The BODY issue is something I didn't think about, so thank you. Our group tend to rely on Healing a lot, so I hope I can teach them the damage and unjury concept of HERO and that I'll not have to kill them on the first session .

Oh, I know. It just makes a good introduction point. It gives a reference that people who are used to D&D can latch onto and start from.

 

FYI, for converting Body from D&D, my conversion is actually quite simple:

1. Start with 10 Body.
   
2. Add the following for size:
   
   • Tiny: -6 Body.
     
   • Small: -3 Body.
     
   • Medium: +0 Body.
     
   • Large: +3 Body.
     
   • Huge: +6 Body.
     
   • etc.

[*]Each Hit Die above 1 gives +2 Body.

[*]If any of the Hit Dice are d3 or d4, add -2 Body.

[*]If any of the Hit Dice are d6, add -1 Body.

[*]If any of the Hit Dice are d10 add +2 Body.

[*]If any of the Hit Dice are d12 add +3 Body.

[*]Toughness adds +1 Body and +3 Stun (above that calculated from the extra Body).

In a sense this is a conversion between Hitpoints and Body, but it doesn't get horribly extreme until you get to pretty high levels.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Introducing player to the HERO System

 

prestidigitator, that's a good conversion, but i've found that about 16 body (the equivelent of lvl 3 on your chart i think) is about sufficient for a normal tank with 75+75. The trick is that a normal tank would have some mundain and armor and combat luck (show them combat luck, and they will be impressed) and you're fairly good to go

 

Icel, the trick with teaching them healing is the bleeding rules. I don't know if you are using them, (i'd suggest it) but make sure you explain those because in DnD, characters don't bleed until they go unconcious, and from the first point of body they bleed in HERO.

 

Also make sure they know they don't die until -thier body, because most people start of with 10 body and DnD the kill zone is -10 so you don't quite realize that.

 

Also teach them about stun, that's important, because a head hit can knock someone out even with good armor and body.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Introducing player to the HERO System

 

prestidigitator' date=' that's a good conversion, but i've found that about 16 body (the equivelent of lvl 3 on your chart i think) is about sufficient for a normal tank with 75+75. The trick is that a normal tank would have some mundain and armor and combat luck (show them combat luck, and they will be impressed) and you're fairly good to go[/quote']

16 Body would be, "level 4" (Hit Dice of 1d8 = 10 Body). I'm probably not going to make Combat Luck readily available myself, because I think resistant defenses should be somewhat difficult to come by. There may be spells that give you some Combat Luck for a while, and I might allow it as a balancing factor for some character types that will not wear armor (i.e. allow it for really light fighters and perhaps those who take a Psychological Limitation about disdaining armor or some such).

 

Icel, the trick with teaching them healing is the bleeding rules. I don't know if you are using them, (i'd suggest it) but make sure you explain those because in DnD, characters don't bleed until they go unconcious, and from the first point of body they bleed in HERO.

 

Also make sure they know they don't die until -thier body, because most people start of with 10 body and DnD the kill zone is -10 so you don't quite realize that.

 

Also teach them about stun, that's important, because a head hit can knock someone out even with good armor and body.

I'm fairly disgusted with the bleeding rules. At first I thought that when you rolled the amount indicating that you stopped bleeding that you simply went a level up on the chart. Then I realized that those with large wounds who bleed more are actually likely to entirely stop bleeding much faster than those with a little wound. I'll probably introduce the bleeding rules in my campaigns eventually, but not as-is. They will be a little more realistic (such as using my initial misconception mentioned above). I think bleeding is a little intense to put in the laps of brand new players.

[Guest bblackmoor]

Re: Introducing player to the HERO System

 

I think bleeding is a little intense to put in the laps of brand new players.

 

I never use it at all, myself, regardless of genre.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: Introducing player to the HERO System

 

I'm fairly disgusted with the bleeding rules. At first I thought that when you rolled the amount indicating that you stopped bleeding that you simply went a level up on the chart. Then I realized that those with large wounds who bleed more are actually likely to entirely stop bleeding much faster than those with a little wound. I'll probably introduce the bleeding rules in my campaigns eventually' date=' but not as-is. They will be a little more realistic (such as using my initial misconception mentioned above). I think bleeding is a little intense to put in the laps of brand new players.[/quote']

 

sorry, my fault with the math. I actually have a GM who redid bleeding so that it 1) makes sense 2) isn't silly and 3) is simple once you get the hang of it, with that said, do you want me to put it up in a new thread? maybe you could modify them for your own likeing instead of making new ones

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Introducing player to the HERO System

 

16 Body would be, "level 4" (Hit Dice of 1d8 = 10 Body). I'm probably not going to make Combat Luck readily available myself, because I think resistant defenses should be somewhat difficult to come by. There may be spells that give you some Combat Luck for a while, and I might allow it as a balancing factor for some character types that will not wear armor (i.e. allow it for really light fighters and perhaps those who take a Psychological Limitation about disdaining armor or some such).

 

 

I'm fairly disgusted with the bleeding rules. At first I thought that when you rolled the amount indicating that you stopped bleeding that you simply went a level up on the chart. Then I realized that those with large wounds who bleed more are actually likely to entirely stop bleeding much faster than those with a little wound. I'll probably introduce the bleeding rules in my campaigns eventually, but not as-is. They will be a little more realistic (such as using my initial misconception mentioned above). I think bleeding is a little intense to put in the laps of brand new players.

 

I hear you. I decided a long time ago that in campaigns where I was going to use the Bleeding rules I'd do it that way too

 

sorry' date=' my fault with the math. I actually have a GM who redid bleeding so that it 1) makes sense 2) isn't silly and 3) is simple once you get the hang of it, with that said, do you want me to put it up in a new thread? maybe you could modify them for your own likeing instead of making new ones[/quote']

I'd love to see them in another thread. Never know when a prizewinning idea is going to raise its head

[prestidigitator]

Re: Introducing player to the HERO System

 

I'd love to see them in another thread. Never know when a prizewinning idea is going to raise its head

Darn right! I haven't tackled it yet, but it is on my definite list of to-dos. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing other peoples' ideas. Potential for stealing, or at the very least brain fuel.

[Icel]

Re: Introducing player to the HERO System

 

Oh. thank you guys for your suggestions, I'll keep them in mind.

Generally, I was planning to use as little rules as possible, at least for this single adventure.

[Rapier]

Re: Introducing player to the HERO System

 

Definately pregen the characters. DONT let them create them from scratch. That will guarantee its your last Hero game. Chargen is WAY to involved to start with (especially you more than likely have been stressing that Hero isnt as difficult as they have heard).

 

Design a good dozen or so characters using fairly stereotypical archetypes (barbarian, combat mage, priest, thief, ranger, paladin). Let them pick which character they want to play.

 

- Limit the spellcasters to less than 6 spells.

- Don't track END.

- I've seen it go either way but either give everyone martial arts or noone.

- No limitations on powers (except for the spellcasters and keep them real simple...roll most of the lims into "Spell" and just adjust for casting time, if necessary).

- Don't worry about money (starting money, let them find some juicy coins on the corpses).

- Design the character to accentuate the abilities of the Hero system (a blouse wearing fencer with a high DCV, a armour laden knight with low DCV, etc). Let them see the versatility of the Hero System.

- Ignore all optional rules (eg bleeding, knockdown).

 

If everything goes off well start introducing a little more each game. Second or third game when they have combat down...throw in END.

 

Best of luck.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Introducing player to the HERO System

 

If you're playing with friends/an established group, you could just ask gthe players what kind of character (loosely) they want to play, then write up their characters for them. This is a compromise of the pregen approach.

 

Consider providing character sheets that set out what their abilities can do, rather than the mechanics behind them. For example, assume a mage with a 16- Magic roll has a Fireball spell: 2d6 RKA, Explosion (+1/2) 45 AP, Incantations (-1/4), Gestures (-1/4), Spell (-1/2), Requires skill roll (-1/2), OAF bat guano (expendeble; easy to replace) (-1) RP 13 looks pretty complex. Instead, give the character this:

 

Fireball Spell 2d6 Fiery Killing Explosion; Requires skill roll of 12-; must gesture, incant and use up bat guano component

 

Is a bit easier to follow. If your players are d20 veterans, you can replace Gestures, Incantations and Focus with V,S,M.

 

Explain combat as you go along, and only highlight unusual items in the spell writeup. For example, standard attack rolls, range modifiers and rolling killing damage can be explained as the spell is used. If the Fireball had no range modifiers, put "no range penalties" in the description.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Introducing player to the HERO System

 

Definately pregen the characters. DONT let them create them from scratch. That will guarantee its your last Hero game. Chargen is WAY to involved to start with (especially you more than likely have been stressing that Hero isnt as difficult as they have heard).

 

What I often do in the case of introducing new players to a system, is to first ask them what sort of character they want to play; have them give me a one-page character concept and/ or history... then I'll build the character myself. That's the good thing about HERO, all you need is a detailed description of a character, and you can build him or her pretty much straight from the description.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Introducing player to the HERO System

 

- Design the character to accentuate the abilities of the Hero system (a blouse wearing fencer with a high DCV' date=' a armour laden knight with low DCV, etc). Let them see the versatility of the Hero System. [/quote']

 

Absolutely. If you just show them another way to write up standard D&D characters, then why should they bother learning a new set of rules to do the same thing? Try to break the "archetypes" (which is usually just a euphemism for sterotypes IMHO).

 

I agree with not tracking END... unless you're using spells that require END, in which case you may have to.

 

Speaking of which, how are you planning on handling magic? Here's one place you can really highlight Hero's versatility. If you really want to show off, you could even have multiple spell casters each using radically different magic systems. Of course, that's more work on your part.

 

One last comment: do as much prep work as you can to make sure you know the rules cold before you start. One of the things I love best about Hero is that despite all the char-gen complexity, the game itself plays very quickly *IF* you've got a ref who knows the rules. If you're having to stop every five minutes to look things up, combats can get bogged down fast.

 

bigdamnhero

"Thank god for the LARP-ers; they make the rest of us look normal."

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Introducing player to the HERO System

 

What I often do in the case of introducing new players to a system' date=' is to first [i']ask[/i] them what sort of character they want to play; have them give me a one-page character concept and/ or history... then I'll build the character myself. That's the good thing about HERO, all you need is a detailed description of a character, and you can build him or her pretty much straight from the description.

Amen. Make it about the characters, not about the character sheets.

 

 

bigdamnhero

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."

[Icel]

Re: Introducing player to the HERO System

 

Speaking of which, how are you planning on handling magic? Here's one place you can really highlight Hero's versatility. If you really want to show off, you could even have multiple spell casters each using radically different magic systems. Of course, that's more work on your part.

I won't use VPP for this first game. I'll go with perbuilt spells. And yes, there will be diffrent spell-casters in the character I'm building.

 

All your suggestion are good, but I must consider my players. I can't decide be myself not to let them create their own characters. I can't ask them to hand me a character write up and build the stats myself. We just don't do thing that way.

[bigdamnhero]

Re: Introducing player to the HERO System

 

I won't use VPP for this first game. I'll go with perbuilt spells. And yes' date=' there will be diffrent spell-casters in the character I'm building.[/quote']

 

I was thinking of not only different spell casters, but different approaches to magic. For example, one wizard might have some powerful spells but they all cost huge END or take a full turn to cast. Another might have all his spells built around a focus and not use END at all. A third might have to prepare all her spells ahead of time using delayed effect and the like. Like I said, more work for you, but helps show your players that not all magic systems need be created the same.

 

All your suggestion are good' date=' but I must consider my players. I can't decide be myself not to let them create their own characters. I can't ask them to hand me a character write up and build the stats myself. We just don't do thing that way.[/quote']

 

Oh, absolutely. All our free advice is worth what you paid for it. It's your group.

 

 

BigDamnHero

"And that's when I shot him, your honor."

[prestidigitator]

Re: Introducing player to the HERO System

 

All your suggestion are good' date=' but I must consider my players. I can't decide be myself not to let them create their own characters. I can't ask them to hand me a character write up and build the stats myself. We just don't do thing that way.[/quote']

Certainly consider your players. But also consider the difficulties of the system, and introducing people to it. Don't take lightly peoples' observations that character generation tends to dissuade very new players. Why don't you generate a bunch of sample characters just in case. If they are willing to use them, great! If not, you can allow the pregenerated characters to be tweaked, fall back on custom GM creation, or use whatever other methods you have planned.

[Icel]

Re: Introducing player to the HERO System

 

I was thinking of not only different spell casters, but different approaches to magic. For example, one wizard might have some powerful spells but they all cost huge END or take a full turn to cast. Another might have all his spells built around a focus and not use END at all. A third might have to prepare all her spells ahead of time using delayed effect and the like. Like I said, more work for you, but helps show your players that not all magic systems need be created the same.

Oh, thats a very good idea. I already thought of doing diffrent theme of spells (druidic nature spells, divine healing spells, arcane evocation spells) but doing diffrent casting "systems" is a very good addition .

Certainly consider your players. But also consider the difficulties of the system, and introducing people to it. Don't take lightly peoples' observations that character generation tends to dissuade very new players. Why don't you generate a bunch of sample characters just in case. If they are willing to use them, great! If not, you can allow the pregenerated characters to be tweaked, fall back on custom GM creation, or use whatever other methods you have planned.

I already said, couple of times, that I'm going to write some character myself, and then let the players decide if they want to play them, change them or write new ones.

[BNakagawa]

Re: Introducing player to the HERO System

 

My advice on a group introduction to the HERO system is to take as many variables out of the equation as possible.

 

Write up some characters that the group knows well.

 

Good candidates are the Teen Titans, the Incredibles, and so on.

 

Write them up in simple straightforward versions with no VPPs, a multipower of ultra slots for attacks and limited levels.

 

Balance them against a bunch of generic opponents and a master baddie.

 

Set up a simple plotline and let them all beat on the mooks in their own styles. Allow them to play a little loose with the rules, but explain how the system would handle odd requests.

 

Then let them face off with the master villain. Let the villain gloat and let them know that individually, they can't just blast or punch him into KOville the way they mauled the mooks. Then explain how support characters can set up targets for a coordinated attack, move through or haymaker.

 

The good guys win, high fives all around the table.

 

Then let them know they can write up just about any character they can imagine...

 

as a special bonus, you can probably find some cool little figurines for such high-profile characters. Using them as figures adds a lot of visual appeal to the game.

 

Using characters that are well known allows your players to instantly get into character and know their relative strengths and weaknesses. They'll immediately gravitate towards tactics that suit their writeups and avoid a lot of the growing pains associated with a game system that makes it possible for any character to attempt almost any maneuver, no matter how tactically unsound it might end up...

 

use short sentences when explaining the game system. Not like me and my irritating run-on sentences...

 

smile a lot.

 

Let the brick get in a move through or a haymaker on some mooks. Let them roll a buttload of dice. Let the quick guys trip an entire row of mooks. Let the sneaky guys get the drop on somebody attempting to activate a massive weapon. Make sure knockback does something funny at least once.

 

Teach them the little tricks to counting up a bunch of d6s.

 

insist on soliloquys!

 

$0.02