Are limited defenses to expensive?

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Are limited defenses to expensive?

 

I don't have a really strong opinion, but I would like to bring one fact to the table.

Generally speaking, Defense Powers cost around 1/2 of what the corresponding Attack Powers cost.

With that in mind, granting large discounts on Defense Powers, even those that do not come up very often, seems like it might cause those defenses to quickly outstrip certain characters ability to do damage.

A cohesive set of powers is generally something that I like to see, and a common SFX is one way to do that (although it is hardly the only way).

But if you were creating The Human Torch as a Player, would you be happy to find out that the Villain's could basically nullify all your main attacks by adding on a Defense that was quite cheap to buy?

 

The problem highlighted here is that the player purchasing "only vs fire" will face lots of other opponents, with a variety of SFX, but an NPC can buy the ability and only face the PC's in combat, with Asbestos Man being replaced by RubberBoy when Human Torch retires and is replaced by Living Lightning.

 

I'd rather cost the limitation based on the magnitude of reduction in the defense's effectiveness and trust the GM to "play fair". It doesn't much matter if that btrust is misplaced - he can pump as many points as he wants into the NPC's anyway.

[Kristopher]

Re: Are limited defenses to expensive?

 

The problem highlighted here is that the player purchasing "only vs fire" will face lots of other opponents, with a variety of SFX, but an NPC can buy the ability and only face the PC's in combat, with Asbestos Man being replaced by RubberBoy when Human Torch retires and is replaced by Living Lightning.

 

I'd rather cost the limitation based on the magnitude of reduction in the defense's effectiveness and trust the GM to "play fair". It doesn't much matter if that btrust is misplaced - he can pump as many points as he wants into the NPC's anyway.

 

Yes. This relies on the GM exercising good judgement, as is so often the case in HERO system games.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Are limited defenses to expensive?

 

Isn't Desolidification that is, "Only vs. Fire," a -1? And that power makes you effectively immune to the attack. I'd think a defense that merely stops part of an attack would get at least as much of a Limitation.

 

Anyway, I think carefully about the value of such Limitations for each campaign. I would be okay with using the book's values as a default when I don't have time to consider it at the moment.

[Ndreare]

Re: Are limited defenses to expensive?

 

Isn't Desolidification that is' date=' "Only vs. Fire," a -1? And that power makes you effectively [i']immune[/i] to the attack. I'd think a defense that merely stops part of an attack would get at least as much of a Limitation.

 

Anyway, I think carefully about the value of such Limitations for each campaign. I would be okay with using the book's values as a default when I don't have time to consider it at the moment.

 

The clunky thing with the Desolidification construct is that it makes you desolid. I would not personaly like the character to have steel weapons pass through him. I just want him immune to steel weapons so if he was in front of sa a little girl the bullets would not go through him and hit her. They would instead just bonce off him and knock him down.. (Example only the character I made was immune to elecricity)

[Dust Raven]

Re: Are limited defenses to expensive?

 

Isn't Desolidification that is' date=' "Only vs. Fire," a -1? And that power makes you effectively [i']immune[/i] to the attack. I'd think a defense that merely stops part of an attack would get at least as much of a Limitation.

 

Anyway, I think carefully about the value of such Limitations for each campaign. I would be okay with using the book's values as a default when I don't have time to consider it at the moment.

 

Well, considering Desolidification makes you immune to damage, AND lets you walk through walls, making it only do one of those things and only versus a single SFX is very limiting. In fact, the accepted -1 for Desol should make it apparent that a -1 on regular Defenses is too high a value for what the Limitation is actualy worth.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Are limited defenses to expensive?

 

Well' date=' considering Desolidification makes you immune to damage, [b']AND[/b] lets you walk through walls, making it only do one of those things and only versus a single SFX is very limiting. In fact, the accepted -1 for Desol should make it apparent that a -1 on regular Defenses is too high a value for what the Limitation is actualy worth.

 

I would agree with this, were it not for the suggestion that characters taking this approach not be required to purchase "affects solid world" on all their attack powers. That is a significant change to Desolidification, in that normaly you are utterly unable to affect the physical world while Desolid, without a substantial expenditure of extra points on your offensive powers.

 

As has often been pointed out, Desolid - only to be invulnerable to damage from specific SFX is a kludge because we don't have a better "invulnerability" power. Another mechanic should be in place for this (perhaps based on the cost of the Desolid option, perhaps based on the approach of extrapolating Damage Reduction). But that's another thread entirely.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Are limited defenses to expensive?

 

The clunky thing with the Desolidification construct is that it makes you desolid. I would not personaly like the character to have steel weapons pass through him. I just want him immune to steel weapons so if he was in front of sa a little girl the bullets would not go through him and hit her. They would instead just bonce off him and knock him down.. (Example only the character I made was immune to elecricity)

Well, seeing as missed attacks don't normally hit other targets in they system (without specific GM ruling), I'd just say the fact that the weapon passed through the target is SFX. It could just as easily be bounced off (especially because other physical attacks, such as pure Str, will work).

[Gary]

Re: Are limited defenses to expensive?

 

One thing to watch for if you increase the limitation value to -1 or more. It makes Gadgeteers and other VPP users much more dangerous since they can stick this limitation on defenses whenever they expect to face an opponent with the proper attack.