Old Man Posted May 1, 2003 Report Share Posted May 1, 2003 I understand that it is either 3 or 5 pts CSLs that are the cheapest to increase damage. Is it the 3 or the 5 pts CSL that is the minimum for Limitations? How much would "Only to Increase Damage" be worth as a Limitation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzy Gnome Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavnn Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 The one time I did this I bought it as 5pt Melee levels with 'Only to do Extra Damage' -2. Lets face it, you can get 1DC and a whole load of other stuff for 5pts of Strength, so I didn't want to penalise people who bought a more character appropriate ability. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 Re: CSL Originally posted by Shadowpup I understand that it is either 3 or 5 pts CSLs that are the cheapest to increase damage. Is it the 3 or the 5 pts CSL that is the minimum for Limitations? There is contradictory information on this I believe. In places, it mentions that 5pt skill levels are the minimum on which limitations can be placed. In other places, I've seen 3pt levels being quoted as the "minimum" (Thu Ultimate Vehicle is guilty of this) Then again, it may be that as far as Combat Skill Levels are concerned, the minimum is 5pts. For regular Skill Levels (non-combat type) the minimum is 3pts. Perhaps this question should be put to Steve. How much would "Only to Increase Damage" be worth as a Limitation? Hmmm...for a Hand to Hand or Melee skill level....considering their versatility (+OCV or +DCV or +DC) I would consider that at least a -1/2, if not a -1. I'm going to say -1/2 for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavnn Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 The problem with that is that you make the CSLs much less efficient than Strength for increasing Melee damage. Remember, it takes 2 CSLs for one DC, so if you set it to -1/2 it costs you 7 points to gain +1 DC - a pretty poor way of spending points. If my GM ruled -1/2, I'd be asking about buying STR only to do damage instead - even if he ruled it a -0 lim, it would be cheaper. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starlord Posted May 2, 2003 Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 The answer is 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted May 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2003 Originally posted by Mavnn The problem with that is that you make the CSLs much less efficient than Strength for increasing Melee damage. Remember, it takes 2 CSLs for one DC, so if you set it to -1/2 it costs you 7 points to gain +1 DC - a pretty poor way of spending points. Well, it might make it much less efficient than STR but what if you're limited by NCM? After you hit 20 STR you can only use CSLs to increase damage without using Martial Arts or Powers. The idea is that I want to increase damage without increasing STR, without using a magic weapon, and without using a spell. Sure I could just buy full 5 pts levels but it wouldn't really fit the character background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted May 3, 2003 Report Share Posted May 3, 2003 Martial Arts maneuvers and +DC's are good for that also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavnn Posted May 3, 2003 Report Share Posted May 3, 2003 Originally posted by Shadowpup Well, it might make it much less efficient than STR but what if you're limited by NCM? After you hit 20 STR you can only use CSLs to increase damage without using Martial Arts or Powers. The idea is that I want to increase damage without increasing STR, without using a magic weapon, and without using a spell. Sure I could just buy full 5 pts levels but it wouldn't really fit the character background. I was more referring to how I saw the relative costing than suggesting you brought more Strength. Having said that, there is president for characters buying stats above NCM with limitations - STR only to do damage to represent a particularly lethal fighter would get full consideration from me as a GM. Having thought about it a bit more, the way I'm looking at it now, a DC costs 5pts. Therefore, if your CSL can do nothing but add DCs, it should probably cost you 5pts per DC - so a -1 limitation. To be honest though, if you're wanting to play a character who is that good in HTH combat, I'd probably by grabbing for the Ultimate Martial Artist. For me, martial arts are the primary way of doing extra damage in HERO due to skill, and it gives you more in the way of fun alternatives in combat. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mad GM Posted May 3, 2003 Report Share Posted May 3, 2003 Increasing damage Remember that Martial Arts manuevers, while typically represented by some specific school or training, are only a game mechanic. If the 'special effect' is that you are just a darn good fighter, Martial Arts manuevers might very well be the most cost effective way to portray it. You do end up having to buy it 'usable with weapon type', but it is still cheaper. Of course, there would be no Style Limitations on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted May 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 You know after thinking about it, Hand Attack increases Normal Damage attacks by 1DC for 5 pts. Would it be unreasonable to presume for the same cost buying a power to increase Killing Attacks? Just buying HKA will not increase the damage you do with something like a sword. Unless that's classified as HKA, only when using a sword? If that is the case, then how do you figure increases in damage from STR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 I give "only to do damage" a -1 limitation, taking into account that only 5 Pt CSLs can be limited. I also require 5 pt CSLs be a bit more specific - you can have a 5 pt CSL in HTH combat or ranged combat, but not both. To add 1 DC to all your attacks would require an 8 pt level That means two CSLs work out at the same cost as 1 DC - which is how it should be, no? Also, since I charge 2 points per point of STR, extra STR with the same limit also works out at 5 points per DC. So it all seems to balance nicely. Apart from those damn 4 pt DCs for martial arts, which I am thinking should perhaps be 5 pts each. Unless HA can apply to all your HTH attacks, in which case the maths goes: STR: 10 pts per DC (plus buttloads of good stuff) HA: 5 pts per DC to all HTH attacks Martials arts: 4 pts per DC on all HTH attacks (limited to martial arts maneuvers, -1/4) Two CSL: 5 pts per DC (limit: only to do damage -1) - can apply to either HTH or to ranged combat. Hmmm. Having written that down, I think I can see how I am going to run it from now on...... cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mad GM Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 Originally posted by Markdoc Two CSL: 5 pts per DC (limit: only to do damage -1) - can apply to either HTH or to ranged combat. [/b] ...but not both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 >>>quote:Originally posted by Markdoc Two CSL: 5 pts per DC (limit: only to do damage -1) - can apply to either HTH or to ranged combat. [/b] ...but not both.<<<< But of course. I should have added that :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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