[Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

[buzz]

When would one need Power Defense that was resistant?

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

killing attacks with AVLD attacking power defense...

[buzz]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

Thanks, Roy!

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

no problem, thanks for your thread about loop character generation

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

Hmmm... Resistant Power Defense sounds like it has very limited functionality, because it's so highly specialized.

 

Still, I'm glad I know the answer to this question.

[Edsel]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

Wouldn't an NND (vs. Power Defense) KA with the Does BODY advantage also require resistant Power Defense to resist?

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

Wouldn't an NND (vs. Power Defense) KA with the Does BODY advantage also require resistant Power Defense to resist?

 

Probably, now that you mention it. Took me a few seconds to absorb all the aspects of that description.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

yes it would, but that'd be +2 vs +1.5 either way, special attacks need rPower, as opposed to regular drains and transforms

[Ura-Maru]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

Ah, I don't think so.

 

I've never even heard of 'resistant' power defense. Or Flash Defense. Or Presence Defense. (If presence defense still existed, at least)

 

a Killing AVLD 'Power Defense' treats all presence defense as if it were already resistant, unless I'm very much mistaken.

 

Sort of on the 'AVLD must use an existing special defense' therory. NO ONE has resistant Power Defense. Therefore, it's not a valid defense for an AVLD.

 

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"Ha! I'm useless against your weapons!!"

[buzz]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

NO ONE has resistant Power Defense.

5ER, p.215: "Power Defense is not Resistant, but characters may purchase Damage Resistance for it."

[Ura-Maru]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

Well, what do you know. I never noticed that. It's under Flash Defense, too.

 

I'd put it down as an oversight. My argument still stands. If you assume that thier default state is 'nonresistant', AVLD killing attacks have no defense at all. Unless I'm mistaken, no published characters, and no personal character I've ever seen, has 'resistant' power defense.

 

Seems like a fair question to ask Steve in 'Rules Questions'.

 

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"If you try to cut the mochi, you'll never be able to do it."

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

I'd put it down as an oversight. My argument still stands. If you assume that thier default state is 'nonresistant'' date=' AVLD killing attacks have [b']no defense at all[/b]. Unless I'm mistaken, no published characters, and no personal character I've ever seen, has 'resistant' power defense.

 

AVLD KAs don't have Defense, and... no other kinds of Attacks have DEF, either. Attacks don't have DEF. I don't understand what you mean by "AVLD killing attacks have no defense at all." Explain?

[Ura-Maru]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

I meant that there would be no defesnse _against_ them.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

I meant that there would be no defesnse _against_ them.

 

No, actually AVLD Powers must be directed against Flash Defense, Mental Defense, Power Defense, etcetera. So if it's an AVLD KA, only Resistant Mental, Flash, or Power Defense (whichever one the AVLD is selected for) would protect against it.

[Ura-Maru]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

-shrug-

 

I suppose, if you applied everything literally. If you ignore the fact that no one HAS resistant Power Defense.

 

That's my point. AVLDs require you to take a defense for them, as you say. (and so did I, though not very well, it seems) I would consider 'a defense that no one in the history of the game has ever purchased' to be functionally equivalent to 'no defense.'

 

It's not like AVLD Killing Attacks are getting screwed doing it my way. 3d6N AVLD Does Body costs 52.5 points, and does 3 body and 10.5 Stun on average. 1d6K AVLD Does Body costs 52.5 points, and does 3.5 body and 8.75 Stun on average.

 

Roughly equivalent, no?

 

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So if I take an AVLD drain, bought with its defense as Flash Defense, does that mean I have to buy Flash Power Defense to protect against it?

[buzz]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

Steve pointed me to the FAQ:

Flash Defense

Q: Why would a character want Resistant Flash Defense?

 

A: To protect against HKA/RKA, AVLD (Flash Defense), Does BODY attacks, and the like.

 

I would consider 'a defense that no one in the history of the game has ever purchased' to be functionally equivalent to 'no defense.'

Apparently somebody has bought it before, even if it was only Steve.

[Ura-Maru]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

I don't see where he says he bought it . . .

[ghost-angel]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

I think we're missing a big part of Hero:

 

It's Possible.

 

 

Just because it's rarely, if ever, been done does not mean it can't be done. That's the POINT of the system: It Can Be Done.

 

If you were playing, say, Psychic Wars where attacks vs Mental D doing body were common then I could see Resistant Mental D being common.

 

Likewise if you're playing in some game where Power Def and attacks against it were common enough then I'd see Resistant Power Def starting to come into play as things escalated.

 

buzz asked "When would one need Power Defense that was Resistant?"

 

Other provided an answer as to when it would come into play.

 

The question was not "How often." just what circumstances.

 

So, who bloody cares how common it might be or how often it will come up or if anyone has ever purchased it.

 

IT'S POSSIBLE.

 

that's all you need to know.

[Ura-Maru]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

You don't even need 'does body'. Killing Attacks apply full Stun if you don't have resistant defenses . . .

 

A 1d6+1 AVLD KA with an extra stun multiple costs 55 points and does 15.75 stun per round. Not bad. If you can talk your GM into allowing 68 active points, that's 19.25 stun.

 

Wanna see me drop Destroyer in two turns?

 

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And that's IF his Damage Reduction applies to something that's vs. Power Defense . . .

[ghost-angel]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

You don't even need 'does body'. Killing Attacks apply full Stun if you don't have resistant defenses . . .

 

A 1d6+1 AVLD KA with an extra stun multiple costs 55 points and does 15.75 stun per round. Not bad. If you can talk your GM into allowing 68 active points, that's 19.25 stun.

 

Wanna see me drop Destroyer in two turns?

 

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And that's IF his Damage Reduction applies to something that's vs. Power Defense . . .

 

1) Non-Resistent Defenses apply Vs the STUN of a KA. So, they still get to defend against it if they have the appropriate Def.

 

2) Per the FAQ:

 

Flash Defense

 

Q: Why would a character want Resistant Flash Defense?

 

A: To protect against HKA/RKA, AVLD (Flash Defense), Does BODY attacks, and the like.

 

The original answer to the question is correct.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

You don't even need 'does body'. Killing Attacks apply full Stun if you don't have resistant defenses . . .

 

A 1d6+1 AVLD KA with an extra stun multiple costs 55 points and does 15.75 stun per round. Not bad. If you can talk your GM into allowing 68 active points, that's 19.25 stun.

 

Wanna see me drop Destroyer in two turns?

 

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And that's IF his Damage Reduction applies to something that's vs. Power Defense . . .

 

The point is, it makes sense to do it that way. Part of the COST of ANY Killing Attack is the fact that you need Resistant Defense to defend against it. Therefore, NORMAL damage AVLD attacks would be getting an unfair advantage over KAs, and KAs would be getting the shaft.

 

That's why there's Resistant Power, Mental, and etc. DEF: because there are both Normal Damage and Killing Damage attacks VERSUS those Defenses.

[Ura-Maru]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

Just because it's rarely, if ever, been done does not mean it can't be done. That's the POINT of the system: It Can Be Done.

 

I’m afraid I disagree. When dealing with odd rules interactions, particularly when looking at powers that bypass standard defenses, it’s vital to keep in mind how other characters in the campaign are built.

 

Now, if a campaign had very common attacks vs. rPowerDefense, sure it might be reasonable. A cyber campaign, designed a particular way, might need an extra ‘humanity’ stat. The standard game does not include the latter, because it has no meaning in ~98% of campaigns.

 

IT'S POSSIBLE.

 

that's all you need to know.

Not in my game, it ain’t.

 

And I need to know some other stuff, too. Like, ‘Why did they cancel Manimal?’

 

 

1) Non-Resistent Defenses apply Vs the STUN of a KA. So, they still get to defend against it if they have the appropriate Def.

Incorrect, I’m afraid. You can only apply non-resistant defenses against stun done with a killing attack if it has to pass through some resistant defense first.

 

 

2) Per the FAQ:

I’m not denying that the faq says that. Nor did I when buzz pointed it out. I’m explaining why I think it’s silly. You’re free to disagree, of course.

 

The point is, it makes sense to do it that way. Part of the COST of ANY Killing Attack is the fact that you need Resistant Defense to defend against it. Therefore, NORMAL damage AVLD attacks would be getting an unfair advantage over KAs, and KAs would be getting the shaft.

The Normal Damage version does, on average, 1.75 extra stun, but the Killing version does an extra .5 body. Seems pretty fair to me.

 

Except the killing version works on every character ever published/posted, and the Normal doesn’t. So who’s getting screwed?

 

Or put another way: Is it acceptable to claim ‘special defense with a specific advantage’ as the defense against an AVLD?

 

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This is why psionics in D&D are so asinine . . .

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

I meant that there would be no defesnse _against_ them.

 

there would be resistant defense against them

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

It would be pretty assine, but it's a good way to model very small things, like fusion cutters or something. I'm sure there must be a good way to use this rulesplotation

[Blackberry]

Re: [Rules-fu] Resistant Power Defense

 

Well, what do you know. I never noticed that. It's under Flash Defense, too.

 

I'd put it down as an oversight. My argument still stands. If you assume that thier default state is 'nonresistant', AVLD killing attacks have no defense at all. Unless I'm mistaken, no published characters, and no personal character I've ever seen, has 'resistant' power defense.

 

But on the other hand, buying such a cheap defense as Resistant is also really cheap, as is buying it Hardened. You'd need it Hardened against an Armor-Piercing AVLD:PowerD attack, right? You don't get Hardened for free just because not very many people buy Hardened Power Defense.