Advice for Drawing Maps

[Manic Typist]

Hello all!

 

My first time posting here, though I am familiar with various other forums, so I should be able to navigate myself around mostly.

 

I have done several searches on this site for help on this topic, and while I found lots of nice and useful ideas, I figure maybe I could get a little bit more by asking specifially about what I need.

 

In a week or three, I am going to be GMing my first campaign. While I have numerous concerns, right now my focus is on mapmaking.

 

Basically, I have created a new world, country, etc.

 

However, the campaign will primarily be focused within a single city, Semona.

 

Think "Three Musketeers" derry-do (or is it daring-do?) mixed with Italian intrigue.

 

Anyway.

 

It has become necessary for me to draw 4 maps, just to begin the campaign.

 

One map is of the country and other cities, as well as immediate neighbor nations etc.

 

One map is the city's immediate area, focusing primarily on what is outside the walls. This is where I will actually put the city walls, the outlying farms, maybe a small outpost, the Wizard's Island at the mouth of the river that runs through the city.... etc.

 

One map is of the city slightly closer up, showing the different districts and major, major thorough fares. I have this completed.

 

The last map is one of the districts up close, showing the important roads, sites, neighborhoods, commerce areas, etc.

 

I am drawing these by hand, so thus I am looking for advice concering any aspect of the process. How to best draw road lines, where to put this and that, things I need to consider, etc.

 

Right now I am working on the detailed district map. It is hard, since the scale will be hard to keep even remotely workable. Still, I shall make do.

 

It is important to note that this city is highly segregated between 7 Houses, although only 6 have any actual territory. The only reason that there aren't walls separating each House's territory from another's is because the Governor-Prospector won't allow it. His job is to make sure this vital trade city keeps producing cash for the kingdom, and he can't allow the various factions to become too entrenched, literally.

 

Any tips?

 

I can provide more details for the campaign if necessary.

 

Thnx in advance for anything you can offer.

[Curufea]

Re: Advice for Drawing Maps

 

I'd advise using a map of a city from that time period.

 

For example the online map of London from the 16th century

http://renaissance.dm.net/compendium/maps/masters/london-large.gif

 

Also-

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sbookmap.html

http://historymedren.about.com/library/atlas/blatlondex.htm

http://vrcoll.fa.pitt.edu/medart/image/England/london/Maps-of-London/London-Maps.html

http://www.microcolour.com/uk_maps.htm

 

And of course, if they are familiar with London use an editing program to modify the map - flip and rotate parts.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Advice for Drawing Maps

 

What I do when drawing maps is start with a very light pencil, like a 4H, and draw in a basic shape, then I start adding vague details.

 

As I add details, I try to think across time, from the start of the city in its infancy as a settlement, and expanding out, and sometimes merging nearby small communities as borders overlap. Sometimes Ill break particular eras out onto seperate pages to maintain their distinctness.

 

Eventually, Ill have a rough blue print of the current era. Then Ill either go back over this with a dark pencil, like an HB, adding a high level of detail or else redraw the final map on a clean sheet and work up from that, using the rough as a reference but making variations as the whim strikes me.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Advice for Drawing Maps

 

I should mention, Keith Curtis is the guy you REALLY want to talk to though. He is the master of all things map related in my opinion.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Advice for Drawing Maps

 

Unfortunately, I have already somewhat committed on this city by showing the players my first map so far. For future reference, I might do something like what Curufea suggested.

 

Shrike: Thnx for the tips. I will see what I can work in. I guess I need to think more about the transition of time. For the most part, I am just doing random roads, but sticking with mostly angular appraoches with the occasional "sidwinder." Any ideas about where certain things should be, like the market vs. the local barracks? Well, the barracks should go near a main road, obviously. Anything else?

 

I can only hope to attarct the attention of Keith. I have seen a few of his posts. Good stuff.

 

Thnx guys.

[Cancer]

Re: Advice for Drawing Maps

 

Sounds like you've already committed yourself to a skeleton of a map already, though all you have is one crude sketch.

 

Try scanning it, and then print out expanded/reduced copies. Most copy shops will be happy to let you do that, especially on big-format paper. You can work on and from those. Heck, if you make something that you really like, re-scan that, and get the first one laminated. Then you're set for life.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Advice for Drawing Maps

 

Think of the city as a draping over the underlying terrain. The lay of the land, the highs and lows, is going to determine the nature of the roads more than anything else.

 

The other principal concern is whether the city ever had one or more city planners of some sort in control to enforce some kind of order in construction, block out areas for parks or public areas or commons, not to mention whether there has ever been any attempt at zoning. Lacking a firm guiding hand and some kind of vision, settlements that grow in to cities tend to be chaotic messes.

 

Also, as cities grow they tend to be cramped and close quartered around the original settlement and then spread out more as the city grew further afield. There are a lot of reasons for this ranging from mutual defense, early fortifications, lack of transportation, and so forth.

 

These are further reasons why doing a time progression helps make a city feel more real. You can assert this kind of behavior as you grow the city. Start off with an initial settlement with most of the buildings very close together, relatively small, and perhaps bounded by a modest wall or other foritification, and perhaps a few outlying ranches, farms, estates, and so forth. Imagine the commercial success of the settlement and the effect that would have on growth, including any special needs for various industries such as tanning, metalworks, shipbuilding, millhouses, and so forth.

 

Now project a hundred years in to the future. The edges of the core settlement start enveloping the outlying properties; some are built over, others are just absorbed creating unusual pockets here and there in the outer edges of the swelling settlement. Did the nature of the settlements commercial ventures change? Is there an influx of new businesses, an upswing or downturn of existing businesses, etc? Has the form of government changed? Any artistic or cultural movements sprung up that have an effect on the look of the settlement, such as sudden penchant for an architectual style, a particular building material, or a upswing in public works such as fountains and statuary? Any notable people that leave their mark upon the settlement, such as famous and oft-imitated builder, a civic minded ruler, a generous and wealthy citizen that sponsor the building of significant buildings like temples, universities, or librarys. Have there been any conflicts with other peoples that resulted in positive or negative changes to the layout of the settlement? Any natural disasters that have had a permanent effect, like a major fire or flooding or hurricane?

 

After you've done that, repeat in time increments as you grow the city outward, and also occassionally refactor older sections of the city as the progression of events you are imagining indicate appropriate.

 

When you are done you not only have a cool city map, you also have an effective city history as well. Two-for-one.

[Big Willy]

Re: Advice for Drawing Maps

 

Think "Three Musketeers" derry-do (or is it daring-do?) mixed with Italian intrigue.

It's "derring-do", though G-- alone knows why. I suspect the term was coined ironically by someone mocking upper-class English pronunciation. It does just mean feats of daring.

 

Anyway, to the main point:

 

Semona.

Great city name! Really suits the genre you describe.

 

Concerning maps, all Killer Shrike's suggestions so far are good. Other things that spring to my mind:

 

One map is of the country and other cities, as well as immediate neighbor nations etc.

You don't need to go into great detail with this one, at least initially. Get the overall topography settled - how big is the country? are there mountains/plains/forests/lakes? where are the major rivers? etc - and locations for major population centres will suggest themselves. Smaller settlements can be added later according to the needs of character background and/or the ongoing storyline. Break it down into provinces, if that helps: remember land ownership (and thus control of agriculture, mining etc) is power, so assuming Semona is the capital, the various great Houses will likely also have vast tenanted country estates where much of their wealth actually comes from.

 

Neighbouring states don't need much fleshing out: just establish where the borders are and leave the rest to politics. Bear in mind that most frontiers will follow some sort of natural feature, with (currently or historically) contested areas usually being less impassable, and thus more heavily fortified/patrolled - the Franco-German border, for example, is an arbitrary historic division that's moved many times, while France and Spain are clearly separated by a range of mountains that's served as the marker since the days of Charlemagne.

 

One map is the city's immediate area, focusing primarily on what is outside the walls. This is where I will actually put the city walls, the outlying farms, maybe a small outpost, the Wizard's Island at the mouth of the river that runs through the city.... etc.

Again, get the topography right and much else will follow. You've already got the city outline, so just photocopy it down to about 1" a mile (if the city itself covers more than ten square miles it's too big, unless you have magical/technological support for public health, speedy communications etc.) and draw stuff in around the edges. Think about things like land use: this close to the city there will be no real wilderness, but there may be private forests and game reserves as well as the obvious pasture and ploughed fields.

 

Also consider where tributaries flow to the major river. Roads aren't the only way of getting around.

 

The last map is one of the districts up close, showing the important roads, sites, neighborhoods, commerce areas, etc.

I'll talk about this in a separate post, as it merits discussion on its own terms, as well as technical tips on the actual drawing.

[Manic Typist]

Re: Advice for Drawing Maps

 

Great stuff guys!

 

Seriously! I wish I had been thinking along these lines all along.

 

Unfortunately, some will be hard to implement, because A) I am a novice, I am already partway done, but I can go back and rehash. I have already done that some when deciding what particular features are were and C) My "unique" city concept.

 

The name Semona came from Verona. You know, "Romeo and Juliet?" The "bite my thumb scene" just inspired me hehe. Anyway, imagine the animosity between House Montague and Capulet, and now make 7 Houses like that.

 

Semona isn't the capital, but it is a MAJOR trade hub, for the entire planet.

 

Each House is actually a merchant House, but they have become so rich and longlasting (and therefore entrenched) over the past 500 years or so that they are for all purposes considered nobility, at least within the city.

 

Each House got started by making a dye, and this represents the bulk of their profits even today, although they have expanded into products of similar color.

 

For instance, House Verdigris makes an amazing emerald dye, but they now also deal a lot in jade products, etc.

 

Yes, each House has actually taken the name of their dye as their surname. Their original family names have been lost in the flow of time.

 

Just to give you an idea: Nobody besides Semona can produce these dyes. Elves, Dwarves, even Drow recognize the quality of Semona dyes.

 

The Governor-Prospector is appointed by the country's ruler, and his job is to make sure that House in-fighting doesn't reach such a point where A) collateral damage reaches unacceptable levels and the taxes from all this trade flowing through Semona don't falter.

 

Thus, there is an unusually heavy military presence within the city, specifically to ensure that even if all the Houses' private armies rose up at once, united or separate, it would be squashed.

 

Now imagine the fact that most of the city prefers to use rapiers and dueling dirks etc....

 

Magic is fairly prevalent. This is essentially New York, except more so, in the fantasy genre. Maybe more liky Byzantium during its hayday?

 

I was thinking I would have it set up so that the sheer size would mean you would need about 2-3 days to actually cross the diameter of the city.

 

That way, I just have the biggest area to play with. Not to mention, I will need to justify all this trade being exported from and imported into Semona.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Seriously, this is amazing stuff guys. Wow. Thank you so much.

[Barwickian]

Re: Advice for Drawing Maps

 

Given the size of your city, I wouldn't attempt to map everything - nowhere near everything.

 

On your city map, you'll want to mark the location of important thoroughfares, important public buildings and meeting places (such as the markets, parks, major bathhouses, etc), the river(s)/coast, and the main homes of the major houses. You may also want to add places the PCs are liekly to frequent - their homes, favourite taverns and inns, their mistresses' homes and so on.

 

You'll also wan to name the major districts.

 

I'd be inclined to draw this map on A4/letter paper. Add a grid - letters on one axis, numbers on the other - so you can refer to a building as being in grid B5 and locate it easily.

 

Once you're satisfied with it, make several photocopies of this map. If your players are familiar with the city, they should at least have access to this level of information.

 

Retain several copies yourself. One you can use to add buildings as you invent them - after a while, you may want to do an A3 (17ins by 11ins) copy to do this if things are getting crowded.

 

Others you can use for marking the boundaries of political wards, spheres of influence of the major houses, the line of major sewers or catacombs and so on.

 

Some websites that may give you inspiration:

 

http://historic-cities.huji.ac.il/ -- has a lot of renaissance maps of European cities

 

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historic_us_cities.html -- lots of maps of US cities

 

http://historymedren.about.com/library/atlas/blatcitydex.htm - maps of medieval London, Paris and Constantinople, and links to various medieval and renaissance city maps.

 

http://www.roleplayingtips.com/readissue.php?number=81#tips -- tips on making a city come to life in RPGs

 

http://www.io.com/~sjohn/demog.htm -- S John Ross's classic Medieval Demographics made easy. A little early for your period, but may provide inspiration.

[Big Willy]

Re: Advice for Drawing Maps

 

The last map is one of the districts up close' date=' showing the important roads, sites, neighborhoods, commerce areas, etc.[/quote']

 

When defining streets etc, remember that modern American zoning practices don't apply to the period you're emulating, and there is little or no division between commercial areas and residential ones. Every neighbourhood will have its own shops, and even the middle classes will often live above, below, behind or near their places of work. What will divide one street from another is class: the poor will live perhaps six to a room in higgledy-piggledy wood-and-plaster inns and apartment buildings above fishmonger's shops; the more prosperous will live in elegant stone townhouses, perhaps receiving clients in their front parlour or trading in bills of stock at the nearest fashionable coffeehouse; even the parkland-set mansions of the super-rich gentry are themselves places of employment for the live-in domestic staff.

 

I am drawing these by hand, so thus I am looking for advice concering any aspect of the process. How to best draw road lines, where to put this and that, things I need to consider, etc.

 

Get some 5mm or 1/4" squared paper (preferably printed in pale blue rather than black, so your own lines dominate) - a looseleaf pad will do, but if you can find a stapled workbook and use that, even better: the double-page spread will give you more space. Tracing paper is also handy: you're highly unlikely to be happy with your first attempt, but there will always be things you want to reproduce exactly.

 

At 8" to the half-mile, each square will cover 25x25 yards (or 20x20m at 5mm): not quite close enough to show individual houses in the tightly-packed warrens of the old town, but you'll be able to indicate major locations and carriage-navigable roads. (My Bartholomew map of Edinburgh is just about legible at about 4" to the mile, but most landmarks are noted in 3-pt type and even the most famous wynds and closes are marked but unnamed. For detail, as well as to avoid eyestrain and wristlock, you'll want to draw bigger than that.)

 

Do like Shrike says and draw things in lightly at first. Make major thoroughfares 1/8th of an inch wide, lesser streets 1/10th or 1/16th. Narrow lanes, walkways and closes can be indicated by single lines; paths across open ground by dotted lines. Then take a 2B pencil and, always keeping it nice and sharp, darken the lines you've decided to keep. Flip and trace as necessary. For the final version, either photocopy the result on high exposure to bleach out the blue and 4H lines, or (my preferred option) top-trace it onto a large sheet of cartridge paper and ink it in either black or sepia with a .35mm or .5mm technical pen (these can be expensive, but a good refillable one will last you 10 or 15 years if you look after it; alternatively, disposables are available for a couple of quid - probably under $5 - from most good stationers). Write on the street names in black, use coloured pencils to make the river pale blue and the parks pale green, indicate important buildings in red ink, and you're away!

 

Really detailed maps for scenarios, e.g. taverns, street junctions showing all shops and houses etc., can of course be done later, at whatever scale is more appropriate.

 

Hope this helps.

[Big Willy]

Re: Advice for Drawing Maps

 

 

I was thinking I would have it set up so that the sheer size would mean you would need about 2-3 days to actually cross the diameter of the city.

 

That way, I just have the biggest area to play with. Not to mention, I will need to justify all this trade being exported from and imported into Semona.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Crikey, that's enormous. That's like, what? 300 square miles of city? Talk about high fantasy! My brain hurts. I've obviously been playing Warhammer too long...

 

I agree with Andy. Forget trying to map everything: it can't be done. In fact, forget about trying to map the whole city in as much detail as he suggests. Stick to the couple of square miles your players are going to operate in - not even a whole sector, but more likely some sort of transitional zone where two or three houses' spheres of influence overlap. The PCs will likely know this area extremely well (hence the map) but be completely lost anywhere else. The Merchant Lord's palace? It's about fifteen mile that way, guv - I was there for the changin' o' the guard once. South of the river? Are you out of your bleedin' mind, squire? That's enemy territory, that is...

[Manic Typist]

Re: Advice for Drawing Maps

 

Great stuff! I think I am going to go with a happy medium: not as detailed as some are suggesting (because I lack the time and capacity), but at least one full district mapped out, and if it becomes necessary, I will map out others as the characters' speheres become larger.

 

BUT WOW!

 

Great stuff. I am going to save this stuff, and when I build my next city.... start it out right. Hardcore stuff you are giving me. I just hope I have the skill to make it all work!

 

Anything else?

 

High Fantasy in size, but more like medium fantasy in atmosphere.

 

Btw: the city has been a planned city from foundation, but there has still be tons of deviation in individual districts. Very cramped quarters. I am hoping to encourage some roof-dancing, so to say. Hehe. And maybe some chases too...

[Markdoc]

Re: Advice for Drawing Maps

 

Well it's high fantasy, so a city that size could be possible: if we go with the population density from large medieval/renaissance cities that gives you a population of about 30-50 million.

 

Holy medieval megacities, Batman!

 

To put it in perspective, pre- Henri IV Paris was about 400,000 people and 3 kilometres by 4. Constantinople at its height was about a million and about 7 km by 3 km (although that included a fair amount of opens space and farming land inside the walls.

 

So anyway, I don't have a problem with that - though I'd think a little bit about trade and how to feed that many people: I figure magic would have to figure pretty prominently, so you will probably have to have plenty of powerful mages - think about how that may affect the power balance between the different families. If food is grown normally and transported magically, then you might have flying castles, magical gates or both: plenty of adventure hooks there. Finally the earlier posters are right - in a city that size - esecially one without a magical planning department - most people would get lost once they were outside their own district. A whole neighbourhood could burn down and be replaced with most of the city being none the wiser.

 

Cheers, Mark

[Vanguard00]

Re: Advice for Drawing Maps

 

I have nothing to add to the already excellent advice you've received, but I thought I'd throw this tidbit of useless knowledge out there, just for flavor:

It's "derring-do"' date=' though G-- alone knows why. I suspect the term was coined ironically by someone mocking upper-class English pronunciation. It does just mean feats of daring.[/quote']

 

The phrase "derring-do" came from Middle English, I believe (might be Old English, or Welsh or even Gaelic, but I'm pretty sure it's Middle English).The original saying was "durring don", meaning "daring to do".

 

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

 

Okay, back to the discussion of maps.

[Barwickian]

Re: Advice for Drawing Maps

 

High Fantasy in size, but more like medium fantasy in atmosphere.

 

Btw: the city has been a planned city from foundation, but there has still be tons of deviation in individual districts. Very cramped quarters. I am hoping to encourage some roof-dancing, so to say. Hehe. And maybe some chases too...

 

Given the size of the palce, it's likely overtaken and swallowed up smaller surrounding settlements during its growth.

 

That means, like London, as well as the big urban core, it'll have lots of smaller "town centres" scattered throughout. Once they would have been villages in their own right, and they may still ertain their village greens, their taverns and their churches.

 

Talking of churches, there's enough people there to support major temples to most of the deities in your campaign, and hundreds, if not thousands, of smaller temples and shrines.

 

The density of housing you need to the roof-top gallivanting will be a major fire risk. Even if major buildings are stone, the majority of houses will be constructed of wood.

 

A city this size is going to need a massive hinterland to support it. If Markdoc's calculations on the city population are correct, taking the lower end of his estimate, and we assume that about 80% of the population are involved in agriculture (a little low for historical, but this is high fantasy), then you'll have a population of 150 million for the city and its hinterland.

 

At a medieval level of technology (which is still applicable until the agricultural revolution), you need about 3 acres of arable land to support each person at subsistance level.

 

At 640 acres to the square mile, you'll need a little over 700,000 square miles of arable land devoted purely to feeding the city. Woodland and pasture comes on top of that.

 

All of this food (and don't forget firewood!) needs to be transported into the city - river transport is cheapest, so I predict marginally navigable rivers will have early canalisation work: locks and weirs. There'll be plenty of bargees working the rivers and canals as well.

 

There'll be massive seasonal cattle and sheep drives into the city, too. With limited food preservation, the best way of getting meat to the market is to make it walk. Depending on your culture, the herders may walk alongside the beasts (as the English and Welsh drovers did), or they may ride horses - the cattle herders of Andalucia were renowned horsemen even back in the 12th century, and developed many of the tools and techniques later seen in the American West.

 

Most likely time for the big drives is late spring/early summer, when young surplus animals are sold, and late summer/autumn, when the non-breeding or working stock is sold.

 

The beast markets will probably be close to the edge of town (you don't want all those animals clogging the streets for days), though the city may have grown around them a bit. Meat markets will be scattered around the city, though their may be a few big ones close to the core (I'm thinking of London's Smithfield market here).

 

Milling the flour for that nuymber of people will be a major problem. Flour doesn't last particularly well - nowhere near as long as grain - so you mill it when you need it. There may be windmills on some parts of town, and the occasional watermill. I suspect that most of the bridges (hey, to support this number of people, you're going to need a fairly major waterway running through the city) will have floating mills slung between the arches.

 

Floating mills are kind of cool - they were used in ancient Rome and medieval Paris. You basically build a watermill on a boat and tether it under a bridge. Not only do these things add a touch of authenticity to your city, they're a wonderful setting for a combat, with all that clanking machinery to avoid and the flour dust - which is highly explosive!

 

With a city this size you can really go to town!

[Manic Typist]

Re: Advice for Drawing Maps

 

Hehe, well, I might just fuge on the population aspect.

 

Because, I want the city to be big to allow me to cram anything unexpected in there, but wowza, I hadn't realized what I was proposing. I figure I will put the population at about 1-5 million.

 

All these ideas are still great and I think I will try to use all of them if possible!

 

Now I want to make my next city TRULY huge, like you guys are talking about.

 

I do plan to have flying ships. Like from some of the Finaly Fantasy games: essentially sailing vessels etc, but instead of going in the ocean they go everywhere via ballons they are tied to with some arcano/magical enhancement.

 

 

But that's a little suprise for the players, hehe.

[Curufea]

Re: Advice for Drawing Maps

 

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=derring-do

[logomancer]

Re: Advice for Drawing Maps

 

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=derring-do

Dude! For an English-Major, you just posted the equivalent of a word-porn site! Thanks!

[Curufea]

Re: Advice for Drawing Maps