Vehicle DEX

[Fox1]

Re: Vehicle DEX

 

Which effectively eliminates SPD for the Vehicle.

 

Only for movement.

 

If it has weapons to fire, chutes to deploy, or anything else of that nature it would to do it per the normal SPD rules, which was the lower of the driver/pilot or the vehicle itself.

 

For example, a M1A1 battle tank would have a SPD of 2. This duplicates its real life rate of fire for the main gun. So it could fire on phase 6 and 12. However it could move up to 45 mph or around 10" a segment every segment.

 

In Champions II assuming it had a TURN of 4, it could turn a hexside every 3 segments at its top movement rate.

 

Meanwhile the top machineguns are mounted outside the armor and thus are not slaved to the turret controls allowing them to be fired at whatever speed the crewman has (the same as any other ground mounted HMG).

 

Not perfect, but much better than the 5th system.

[Talon]

Re: Vehicle DEX

 

No Vehicle Combat Rules will work 'properly' as long as you are looking at a turn based system (whether they be Turns' date=' Phases, Rounds, etc...) unless everyone goes on every turn all the time.[/quote']

 

I often use per-Turn movement rules where the movement gets divided by whatever the driver's SPD happens to be at the moment...you get granularity issues like you always do with SPD, but otherwise it works fine.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Vehicle DEX

 

Only for movement.

 

If it has weapons to fire, chutes to deploy, or anything else of that nature it would to do it per the normal SPD rules, which was the lower of the driver/pilot or the vehicle itself.

 

For example, a M1A1 battle tank would have a SPD of 2. This duplicates its real life rate of fire for the main gun. So it could fire on phase 6 and 12. However it could move up to 45 mph or around 10" a segment every segment.

 

In Champions II assuming it had a TURN of 4, it could turn a hexside every 3 segments at its top movement rate.

 

Meanwhile the top machineguns are mounted outside the armor and thus are not slaved to the turret controls allowing them to be fired at whatever speed the crewman has (the same as any other ground mounted HMG).

 

Not perfect, but much better than the 5th system.

 

In the case of turrets... well, I suppose they could have their OWN SPD, which may or may not correspond to the vehicle's. That makes sense.

 

And missiles might have their own SPD.

 

Otherwise, I treat all shipboard weapons as acting on the operator's SPD.

 

Also, Fox1, there's one problem with Segmented (essentially SPD 12) Movement. It screws up the Turn Modes, since Current turn Mode = Inches Traveled This Phase/ 5.

[Fox1]

Re: Vehicle DEX

 

Also' date=' Fox1, there's one problem with Segmented (essentially SPD 12) Movement. It screws up the Turn Modes, since [b']Current turn Mode = Inches Traveled This Phase/ 5[/b].

 

Not in Champions II, Turn is defined completely differently there as I pointed out in the other thread. Here at top speed my example M1A1 could only turn a single hexside every 3 segments.

 

Under Champions II, the max turn rate *period* is 1 hexside per segment, and that only if your segment speed is equal to or less than your TURN value (likely a 3 for our example M1A1).

 

I'm going to post a request to publish the old Champions II vehicle rules on my website. I expect to be turned down, but it's worth the shot I suppose.

[zornwil]

Re: Vehicle DEX

 

Maybe DOJ would agree to publish it on their own site, at least? Nice idea, let us know what comes out of it, Fox1.

[Fox1]

Re: Vehicle DEX

 

Maybe DOJ would agree to publish it on their own site' date=' at least? Nice idea, let us know what comes out of it, Fox1.[/quote']

 

No dice.

 

Not even as a Digital Hero article it seems.

[zornwil]

Re: Vehicle DEX

 

Ah well, it was a good idea, thanks for trying.

[Fox1]

Re: Vehicle DEX

 

Ah well' date=' it was a good idea, thanks for trying.[/quote']

 

No problem, it wasn't like it took a huge effort.

 

Maybe someday they'll catch up to some of the other gaming companies. It's not uncommon these days to see old editions of rules and modules put up as PDFs for reasonable fees, or even free.

 

Or maybe not. There are some things DoJ doesn't rights to, and it may include this material for all I know.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Vehicle DEX

 

It's probably a "let's not distribute them publicly for free, we may need them later" sort of deal. Kind of sucks, since there are fans with the latest edition of the core rules who would truly appreciate the vehicle rules from Champions II... also, a good way to kind of force someone into buying the entire Champions II book just to get at the vehicle rules. The book still is for sale, though, so I can't blame them too much.

 

Not that I'm bitter, or accusing anyone; if I really need the rules, I'll buy Champions II. It's less than ten bucks with shipping.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Vehicle DEX

 

It's probably a lot closer to "We don't have writes to publish these at all, only to publish new works derivative of previous works."

 

Hence - they can make a new game but not reprint old ones.

[Fox1]

Re: Vehicle DEX

 

The book still is for sale' date=' though, so I can't blame them too much.[/quote']

 

I don't think it's for sale here. Saw Champions 2nd edition, but not Champions II. Did I miss it?

 

Saw one copy of it on ebay...

[prestidigitator]

Re: Vehicle DEX

 

Actually I discovered on pg. 471-472 of 5ER, it talks about vehicle SPD and pilot SPD. Say a jet fighter has a SPD of 4, and the pilot has a SPD of 3 (the SPD most military jet pilots would have). You have two options:

 

A.) Voluntarily lower the vehicle's SPD (and thus, Inches/ Turn) to match your own. (Unrealistic).

 

B.) Allow the vehicle to move at SPD 4. That means the pilot shares only one of its four Phases. That means for three Phases, the vehicle moves straight ahead at 1/2 DCV, with no possibility of turning.

 

Wow. I'm glad they got THAT covered.

No, no, no. Dude. You are making it so much harder than it is. Just Delay Phases until the pilot and vehicle have 3 in common. The last Phase must be dropped or flown Non-Combat. Done. It makes things so easy.

[Guest Black Lotus]

Re: Vehicle DEX

 

No' date=' no, no. Dude. You are making it so much harder than it is. Just Delay Phases until the pilot and vehicle have 3 in common. The last Phase must be dropped or flown Non-Combat. Done. It makes things so easy.[/quote']

 

Yes, I know. That's the only way to do it that makes sense... it complicates game play JUST a tad, though. Probably best to determine the delay one time, mark it down, and have the pilot act on that Delayed schedule every Turn.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Vehicle DEX

 

Yes' date=' I know. That's the only way to do it that makes sense... it complicates game play JUST a tad, though. Probably best to determine the delay one time, mark it down, and have the pilot act on that Delayed schedule every Turn.[/quote']

Exactly!