Building robots

[Trencher]

Okay after some serious risk taking, fighting and backstabbing one of the characters in my sci-fi setting has gotten his hands on plans for some very sophisticated AI.

He now plans on designing his own line of battle robots, they will not be comanded by him but his supriors. (He is a scientist and loyal to his faction).

He got the skills, he got the blueprints. he got the industrial might to start his project.

I want him to have a say in how the robots turn out offcourse but I don't wont it to take compleatly off either, there is budgets to concider after all.

 

How do you go about doing this? Should I create a budget system with numbers contra quality? If so where do I start doing that?

Any suggestions would be welcome-

[Sean Waters]

Re: Building robots

 

Well, I'd start off with a rival who pinches the blueprints and then undercuts the quote

[Sean Waters]

Re: Building robots

 

...as for a budget system, say first 50 points cost 100$, next 50 cost 1000$ and so on - you can juggle with the numbers and thresholds. It will be far cheaper to have a number of inferior 'bots to your PCs 'ultimate design' - and compromises will have to be made.

 

In fact that would be manufacturing cost.

 

Then you have research and development - similar but add 5 or 6 zeroes - which is why industrial espionage is such an attractive option.

 

Then you have plant and manufacturing - add 6 or 7 zeroes...can't get round this except with sub standard contractors/materials.....

[Fenixcrest]

Re: Building robots

 

Is there money in your game? If so, then it should probably be a matter of a skill roll and money expendiature. If you're going to bring points into it, then the machines should be Independent, anyway, since they're going to belong to his superiors, not him, and he should only have to pay for the Prototype. If you want to think of it this way: the character getting to build these things for his leaders is essentially the reward for all the crap he went through to get the blueprints- I'd just let him do it, assuming he has the right facilities and stuff.

[Trencher]

Re: Building robots

 

Well' date=' I'd start off with a rival who pinches the blueprints and then undercuts the quote [/quote']

Well off course, both rival and enemy spies. That just goes with the territory

...as for a budget system' date=' say first 50 points cost 100$, next 50 cost 1000$ and so on - you can juggle with the numbers and thresholds. It will be far cheaper to have a number of inferior 'bots to your PCs 'ultimate design' - and compromises will have to be made. [/quote'] When you say and so on.. What do you mean?

In fact that would be manufacturing cost.

Yes

Then you have research and development - similar but add 5 or 6 zeroes - which is why industrial espionage is such an attractive option.

To each bot or only once?

Then you have plant and manufacturing - add 6 or 7 zeroes...can't get round this except with sub standard contractors/materials.....

What do you suggest for sub standard materials?

Is there money in your game?

Yes It is based on dollar. In the campaign money have never been an issue since the players are given equipment based on the mission. If they left the military then I would use the point system for money.

If so, then it should probably be a matter of a skill roll and money expendiature.

What do you suggest I should do for this? How much money should he save in on a skill roll made by three contra one made by five?

If you're going to bring points into it, then the machines should be Independent, anyway, since they're going to belong to his superiors, not him, and he should only have to pay for the Prototype.

I am going to bring point into it but only as an estimate for how much the robots will cost to develop and make, the character does not have to pay for it with his own points.

If you want to think of it this way: the character getting to build these things for his leaders is essentially the reward for all the crap he went through to get the blueprints- I'd just let him do it, assuming he has the right facilities and stuff.

Yes I am going to let him do it, I just have not really decided how to go about it.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Building robots

 

I would avoid a budget system that links money to character points. I can buy a 1d6+1 HKA and call it a small metal sword that costs $80 and can also buy a 1d6+1 HKA and call it a collapsable vibro knife with an unobtanium hilt with stargold leafing that costs $2000. Either way, the weapon costs 15 character points (HKA 1d6+1 0 END OAF). I see no link, tie or common ratio here.

 

Instead, work on special effects, skill rolls, available materials and so on. Give him a budget, tell him how much materials costs and what those materials can be made into. Tell him (or let him figure out) what materials are needed for certain projects or parts of the design. Then when he realizes he's way over budget, allow him to decide to either cut corners, or make a few skill rolls to make a more efficient design (but with the same game stats).

 

Of course, if he has the blueprints, then all the hard work is done already. Everything he needs to know is right there. Just look up the prices (or the GM makes up the prices) and he gets to work.

[Trencher]

Re: Building robots

 

Actually he only got the blueprints for making really sophistcated AI, useable for combat and immune to emp.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Building robots

 

It sounds like time for some long-duration Computer Programming rolls and/or Electronics plus Mechanics rolls. Inventor may not be necessary with the blueprints, but you could possibly make it so (probably at a relatively easy level) for coming up with any necessary new manufacturing processes, equipment, or software necessary to implement the plans.

 

The first step may be creating suitable laboratories for those Complimentary Skill rolls. For that, of course, you need some Bureaucracy, Contacts, maybe Favors, initial funding or Money, etc.

[Trencher]

Re: Building robots

 

Skill rolls are the least of my problem. I want to put down some rules for him picking and choosing abilities for his robots all the time trying to find angles for keeping costs down.

Otherwise he is just going to write up a robot with 10 in spd, 30 in str, 30 in hardned armour, with 4d6 armour picering killing attack and 10 skill levels with all combat plus 8 more "only" to counteract hitlocation penalites.

Then I have to put my foot down and we are going to waste precious game time on discussions about game balance a concept that the player in question barly understand and does not acept.

"But _I_ would think that it would be fun to have an army of super robots and win the war without any real problems, is not fun the most important part of gaming? You are a bad Gm if you don't let me have super robots"

I can allready hear his voice in the back of my head

[prestidigitator]

Re: Building robots

 

Skill rolls are the least of my problem. I want to put down some rules for him picking and choosing abilities for his robots all the time trying to find angles for keeping costs down.

Otherwise he is just going to write up a robot with 10 in spd, 30 in str, 30 in hardned armour, with 4d6 armour picering killing attack and 10 skill levels with all combat plus 8 more "only" to counteract hitlocation penalites.

Then I have to put my foot down and we are going to waste precious game time on discussions about game balance a concept that the player in question barly understand and does not acept.

"But _I_ would think that it would be fun to have an army of super robots and win the war without any real problems, is not fun the most important part of gaming? You are a bad Gm if you don't let me have super robots"

I can allready hear his voice in the back of my head

Well, if you use Skills, then there is more excuse for limiting the points and abilities. You can even do it in a way that makes the player feel more responsible for the limitations him/herself. For example, say that the robot can have 5 Active Points in a particular ability for every +1 by which the character makes an appropriate Skill Roll (after any penalties due to the complexity of the design, taking less time, etc., of course).

 

Another idea is to simply build or limit the capabilities because of the blueprints the character got (for free as part of your story, remember!). For example, "While the design of the AI makes it very optimal for use in the areas of astrophysics and psychohistory, it is not well suited to controlling the complex operations of a mechanical body and will thus probably not be able to handle very well a robot with Dex over 15 or Speed over 4."

[ghost-angel]

Re: Building robots

 

Let him have what he wants ....

 

Red Tape delays - do you have any idea the NUMBER of forms required to get a go ahead for a request for money ... "we havn't got the money yet, just approval to ask for it."

 

Sabotage delays - internal spies and enemy raids keep preventing us from getting supplies, building the plant, aquiring the materials, then there's the Labor Contract Laws we keep having to negotiate...

 

Competition - Rivalries aren't suddenly popping out of the woodwork to thwart the characters carreer in favor of their own? Or worse yet a million clingers on want to be a part of the SuperBot project and he gets BURIED in suggestion for augmented positron flux rays or heat seeking cyclone hyper missile arrays or canoper (very important battlefield feature that).

 

You've got a million steps to go before you even get to how much this sucker costs ... nevermind the fact that if the Military has to answer to a Government Budget they're gonna look at 200 Million per Bot and go "What, couldn't get a toaster? Denied."

 

.... Just never get the robots actually built.

[Trencher]

Re: Building robots

 

No I will let the robots be built, the millitary need them.

My question as it relates to the hero system is that I was wondering about how to formelaize and structure a rules set that gives the player choices about how to desing these robots.

Maybe it could be used for venchile creation or for necromacers in fantasy later?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Building robots

 

Ah ok..

 

Well, you can force the player onto a Panel that designs the robot, you don't really need a strucutured way of constructing these things, as it can vary greatly from Game to Game.

 

If the player goes the uber route you can simply, without getting into raunchy details, have the Panel go "The costs for that function are far to high."

 

Also, another alternative is to come up with a Top End for the Robots points. Given the budget, techincal ability, procution ability and logistics the Robots in question can only be So Big. Say, 400 points or so. That's a full robot.

 

So now, instead of Uber-Robot rolling off the line the player is working within a "Budget" of sorts based on the fact that from the Militaries standpoint a 400 pt Robot costs X Amount, and they can't go over that per robot without running out of money quickly.

 

You solve your balance issue, you solve some munchkiny issues, you provide a sort of "baseline" economic value without getting too bogged down in costing out every possible part/power the Robots can have.

[Fenixcrest]

Re: Building robots

 

Here is my big question: Will the player ever get to use the robot on a regular basis, like a Summon, or a Follower? If the answer is "No, the robot will be used exclusively by the military and the player will just get a medal for it," then under no circumstances should the player be forced to pay points for the robot. If the answer is, "Yes, he gets to keep the prototype to be his friend," then by all means, make him expend his own resources. Keep in mind what Dust Raven said, though- basing monetary cost on character points will only lead to annoyance.