Magic... but not Magic

[J. Chamberlin]

Hiya.

 

I'm running a Post-Apocalypse campaign that has very little to do with any sort of Fantasy Campaign I know of. The only reason I'm posting on this particular forum chapter is the traffic: frankly I have a wicked chance of getting a good answer for this question here, so here I ask it. If thats bad form or anything, please move me to the appropriate place. No blood no foul, yeah?

 

Okay, so in my campaign magic is like this: there are Tribals, Townsfolk and Vault-Dwellers. Only the Tribal's Druids, savage wastelanders with primitive superstitions, cast magic, and its only effective against other Tribals who have the Disadvantage: Psy Lim; Believes in Druid Magic. This disadvantage is mandatory for all Tribal characters.

 

I have a few spells in mind for these Tribal Druids, and their spells should only work against other Tribals because other Tribals are the only ones that believe in Tribal magic. BUT, that Tribal magic that they believe in I want to be truly binding.

 

For example, the Tribal ward "Ghost Fence": you take a few skulls and other nasty bits and make two posts on the edges of an entrance, and now no Tribal in his right mind will cross that barrier.

 

Do I call that Mind Control; only to Bar Passage of Tribals (-1 3/4)? Or Entangle; only to form Barriers against Superstitious Tribals (-1 1/2)?

 

Honestly, I'm sure I could go out and buy the Fantasy Hero book or the Magic Sourcebook or whatever, but this riddle just isn't worth $50 to me - I'm totally hoping one of you guys has a charitable stroke of brilliance on this.

 

j

 

P.S: Anybody that was following my "Friendly Faces in the Post-Apocalpyse" thread in the "Other Genres" chapter, I was away for a few weeks and the thread got lost. Guys, thanks all for the brilliant advice given and the awesome websites, and if anyone can tell me how to retrieve the thread I would much appreciate it.

[Ternaugh]

Re: Magic... but not Magic

 

Let's analyse how you want the power to manifest.

 

Using the example of a "Ghost Fence", there are a number of possibilities:

1. The barrier is really there, for the Tribal. It is something that only they can see, and therefore believe in implicitly. This could be modeled with the Entangle, with suitable advantages and limitations.

2. The Tribal can see the barrier, though it's all in his head. You could use Mind Control, or even a form of Mental Images, once again, only visible to Tribals.

3. The Tribal knows that the magic is potent, and, although the only visible markers for it are a few bones, and other items of power, he knows the great consequences for violating the barrier. This makes use of the beliefs common to all Tribals, and makes it an extreme sacrifice for the character to willingly violate the warding (read: Ego rolls at substantial penalties plus roleplaying required to break the "Ghost Fence").

 

Of these systems, I feel that #3 is perhaps the most elegant. It has definite roleplaying hooks, and creates a moody and mysterious system of "magic". It also covers the duality inherent in the system: that it only seems to affect Tribals. To enforce the "bad effects" of ignoring the magic, I'd probably use an Unluck dice system, by which Tribals would gain extra dice of Unluck for each violation, until an "atonement" ritual could be performed.

 

Of course, YMMV,

JoeG

[UltraRob]

Re: Magic... but not Magic

 

Of these systems, I feel that #3 is perhaps the most elegant. It has definite roleplaying hooks, and creates a moody and mysterious system of "magic". It also covers the duality inherent in the system: that it only seems to affect Tribals. To enforce the "bad effects" of ignoring the magic, I'd probably use an Unluck dice system, by which Tribals would gain extra dice of Unluck for each violation, until an "atonement" ritual could be performed.

 

JoeG

 

I likes it!

 

If the players can handle it, it would be very cool.

 

I especially like the Unluck dice, just to show them there is a penalty.

 

Rob

[Markdoc]

Re: Magic... but not Magic

 

One other possibility - along the same lines as suggestion #3 is to simply require Tribals to buy (or give as an everyman skill) KS: tribal rituals, with the limitation "side effect" - triggered by breaking taboo. Players would be OK with this since you are requiring the "believes in tribal ritual" disadvantage which gives the players some points they don't have to scrounge for.

 

Joe average tribal with his default KS roll will know what a fetish looks like and if it means good/bad Juju. An apprentice shaman might know that a specific fetish means "Danger, don't go here" while a shaman might be able to work out "Radiation sickness" (though probably not by that name )

 

If they break taboo, the side effect goes into action: unluck, blindness, summoning a thing that stalks you in the dark of the moon, whatever. This has the advantage that you can set a variety of side effects of differing power, so the players won't necessarily know what to expect (unless they buy up their ritual skills). But they can expect it will be bad.

 

At that point you don't need to rely on roleplaying. Tribals will react to fetshes they way you want to because the PLAYERS will know that something bad will happen. And since side effects might affect the general environment or other people around the taboo-breaker, they'll be pretty damned uneasy about being around while other people do it too....

 

cheers, Mark

[Tom Carman]

Re: Magic... but not Magic

 

If Tribals have to pay points for their magic, it is "real" in-game so non-Tribals should have to pay for an immunity to it. Alternately: if magic has an equally common beneficial side (like Healing and Aids), then non-Tribals should also be unable to benefit, and you might call it a wash on the advantage/limitation front.

[J. Chamberlin]

Re: Magic... but not Magic

 

See, I knew this was the right place to post this question.

 

Ternagh, I think you're bang-on to the campaign with idea #3, so I wanna follow that one in particular.

 

First off, you dudes are suggesting that there actually be no spells in the Power catagory, but instead just assign Unluck dice to Taboo-breakers, right?

 

If this is the case, awesome idea and totally simple - my two favourite things when I make a campaign. If I interpret you folks wrong, please tell me before I really take your teachings to left field.

 

Okay, so if all Tribals can spot and recognize a Ghost Fence with say a K.S. roll, then a Shaman must first erect it with a P.S. roll or similar, right? This works, but I'm not sure if it works for a few other Shaman powers. The big thing I want here is for the Shaman "spells" to be detailed in game terms enough that a player might one day want to play a Shaman.

 

Should there be things like K.S: Wards, K.S: Charms, K.S: Curses? Or just P.S: Shaman with individuals taking special Powers as the mood and the points allow them. If thats the case, I have a lot less Shaman spells to detail and a lot more superstitions to do, but thats cool too. Or should all Shaman effects be their own spells?

 

So have a drink on me and put on your thinking caps. If we can make these next two powers make sense like the Ghost Fence then I'm pretty sure any other Shaman spell I come up with will work.

 

Arite, power #2: Haunt Area. The shaman takes a bit of fetish, something awful like a skull or guts or something, and buries it somewhere - lets say in the entrance to a cave. Now any Tribals resting in that cave will experience an unexplainable sense of terror: they can't sleep, won't want to eat, and will generally be very much on edge. BUT if they are travelling with a Shaman of their own, he will be able to locate the charm, dig it up and counter-spell it, after which the fear "aura" in the cave is gone.

 

And power #3: Good Luck Charms. This is a big one. The Shaman takes some bits, let's say a snake's eyeball, and sets it into say a bracelet. Then he gives the bracelet to a Tribal Warrior and tells him that he no longer needs to fear snake-bites. How long does the Charm last? Does the Shaman have to sacrifice experience points to build it? Does this catagory also include Tribal potions and salves, or is that another Power (Specifically Aid or something similar?) This one has me really stumped.

 

Tom Carman, your right on the whole good side/bad side to Tribal magic and Towner/Vault-Dweller immunity to both. A Shaman might say he'll curse a Towner with sterility, but the Shaman really can't do that without, say, poisoning the poor dude. Likewise, a Shaman can't just chant over a Vault-Dweller and raise his PRE for a scene, but he could do that for his fellow Tribals.

 

Dudes, thanks as always for your insight. I love this game, but sometimes it feels too damn big. Its good to know I got professionals backing me up.

 

Cheers,

j

[tgrandjean]

Re: Magic... but not Magic

 

Just a few thoughts...

Re Druid Magic: RSR: PS: Druidic Magic (with possibly a second roll on KS: Ritual times and places), Can only effect Tribals (-1 at least), Extra Time (probably lots though they might have instant effects such as +Pre only for fear or awe), expendable but (somewhat) easily replaceable foci, gestures, incantations, concentration, side effects, ect...

 

1) Ghost fence: Sounds like a Trigger bought on whatever power you set for effects. Could even be a resetable Trigger if you supply the power with an End Reserve or charges. I'd go with inflicted Unluck, though Drain Str or even a set Mind Control (Run Away!) are all good tricks. Do the usual, just keep it atmospheric.

 

2) Haunting: A continuing charge Change Environment sounds like the best be to me. The counter of course is finding the charge and a PS: Druidic magic being the counter. Alternately, a simple (perhaps too simple) Dispel targeting All Druidic magic (+1 1/2?) could be made.

 

3) Good luck charms: Heh. A full range of effects is possible here though they do of course need to be bought seperately (or VPP). Powers bought as expendible foci can be handed out. Powers would mostly be bought as usable by others. They could include Life support, resistances, Luck (or unluck), healing, Aid, CSLs, combat luck (a few points of armor are nice), + characteristics, etc...

Independant would bring the cost down, but it makes more sense for these to be simple 1 shot expendable foci.

[Phil]

Re: Magic... but not Magic

 

Could this not just be modelled by Psych Lim: Supersitious tribal? After all, whats important is NOT whether the barrier is actually there, but whether it actually has any effect against tribals. Keep it simple, I reckon.

 

Phil

[Wilfred_Death]

Re: Magic... but not Magic

 

Personally I'd first decide Whether:

 

1. The Shaman / Druids Have any 'real power' at all, no matter how small, that work better ( at all ) vs Tribals ( ie Really Limited Spells )

 

OR:

 

2. The Shaman / Druids only have a Belief System going for them

 

Arite, power #2: Haunt Area. The shaman takes a bit of fetish, something awful like a skull or guts or something, and buries it somewhere - lets say in the entrance to a cave. Now any Tribals resting in that cave will experience an unexplainable sense of terror: they can't sleep, won't want to eat, and will generally be very much on edge. BUT if they are travelling with a Shaman of their own, he will be able to locate the charm, dig it up and counter-spell it, after which the fear "aura" in the cave is gone.

And power #3: Good Luck Charms. This is a big one. The Shaman takes some bits, let's say a snake's eyeball, and sets it into say a bracelet. Then he gives the bracelet to a Tribal Warrior and tells him that he no longer needs to fear snake-bites. How long does the Charm last? Does the Shaman have to sacrifice experience points to build it? Does this catagory also include Tribal potions and salves, or is that another Power (Specifically Aid or something similar?) This one has me really stumped.

 

Especially with relevance to these quotes ( power descriptions )...

I would use all the above suggestions like 'Succeptibility' to Shamanic 'suggestions' in either case.

However I'd be more inclined to actually give the Shaman 'Real Magic' with at least a -2 Limitation on everything ( Or More ) so it affects 'Tribals' and is otherwise not noticed.

 

In the examples above: How do the Tribals 'Know there is a fetish buried in the cave, and the second warrior guy, if he gets bitten by a snake how quickly does he die, compared to a non Tribal ?

 

To this end I'd be inclined to actually give Shaman Characters 'Real Magic'

And also give every 'Tribal' a 'Takes 2 * Effect From Shamanic Magic Limitation perhaps related to their KS: Tribal Rituals.

 

This could end up allowing the use of 'really powerful' Shaman if neccessary, you know the 'N'Longa' (?) type who can actually 'animate dead' , and the non tribal PCs go 'Oooh aaah, impressive, it must be done with mirrors.....haw, haw', or other such things at the extreme end of Shamanic power level.

 

I'd probably Build most of the 'Spells' into a MultiPower ( allowing things not normally allowed in multipowers ) . Making Sure the 'Power Pool' or whatever you call it is severely 'Limited'

Like:

Shamanic Magic Pool ( 40 AP ) , RSR Shamanic Magic -1/2, Gestures, Incant, Extra TIme, IIF, Extra Endurance, Blah, Limited Power : Reduced Affect on Non Tribals, Does Not affect Non Tribals unless they are 'Superstitious' -2 (?)

 

And that'll only end up costing a few points ( about 8 ? )

Then any Spell you put in here is usually going to only cost 1 Pt.

 

Then You have to decide 'how you allow Magic Potion / Item creation' - ( I use Transform for this)

With Part of the 'Focus' of any Magic Item Creation Spell being represented by " A Certain number of Character Points sufficient to cover the Real Cost of the Item must be provided by 'beast parts' ( at a 20 for 1 ratio ) "

(arrgh I'm vaguing out..............)

OK then:

For the SnakeBite Charm the Shaman actually creates a 'Real Magic Item'

Life Support, Immunity to SnakeBite

Independent

Only works on Tribals or those the Shaman 'Favours'

IAF Snakebite Charm

 

If you can understand my ramblings, -

How I do it is : The Shaman as One of his 1pt. Tribal Spells has a Power:

Major / Minor Transform ( 3D6 ? ), With the above limitations for Shamanic Magic.

 

He Gets a ( For Example ) 20 Character Point Snake. He then takes out the 2 CP Eyeballs, putting them into an amulet which he can build as he has PS Shaman, and maybe other skills.

He Then 'Impresses the Tribe' by exaggerating all his preparations ( Gestures Incants etc ) and casts his 'Transform Spell' On the Amulet.

This then becomes an independent Magical Item that actually works.

 

This way I allow Spellcasters to make Magical Items, with these restrictions:

1.The Powers in the Item created must be Known to the Shaman ie one of their 1Pt Spells is : Immunity to SnakeBite

2. They must Know enough Transform to 'Match the AP of the Item Created' and I allow Cumulative on the transform for that.

3. The Real Points for the created Item must be provided by using items like Snake Eyeballs, Bear Teeth etc, ie, they are removed from a X Pt Monster and you can use 10% of X to represent the available CP in the eyeballs.

 

This sort of apporach easily allows for the Good Luck Charms mentioned.

 

For the buried Fetish that disturbs Tribals, you build an item with too low an effect fro most normals to notice, but Tribals take Double Effect......

 

This means that certain PC with the right 'magical backgrounds' may notice and or be affected by the Shamanic Spells...........